boco357 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 How about a ton of teams that throw up all over themselves when they play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 In the past years, I felt there were times during the Marrone era that the team had enough talent to beat the Pats*** but just didnt have good coaching to pull it off. This year, so far, feels different. Frazier and Dennison appear flexible enough to adjust game plans and McD has the team prepared.. McD does not look like a rookie HC out there. For this reason alone, we should convincingly beat them in at least one game, perhaps both. By the time we play them. we will have played the Saints and Chiefs and hence would have a great idea whether this team belongs among the upper tier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Yeah, they've been pulling the wool over everyone's eyes the last 20 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Yeah, 20 years is squat compared to the Romans. In the NFL it’s pretty damn good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 To the O.P., yes, nothing sustainable to see here! New England Patriots 2001 to 2016: Regular season wining percentage: .766 Division Titles: 14 Average wins per season: 13.8 Superbowl Appearances: 9 Superbowl Victories: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Yeah, 20 years is squat compared to the Romans. In the NFL its pretty damn good! ... What's that saying? When in Rome... Tom Brady still a little punk ass B word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 They've had a lot of success over the years but its not sustainable. That was my point. Do you happen to think the earth is flat by any chance? A lot of success over the years. Is that not how one might describe sustained success in the nfl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 The Pats have won 5 championships since 2001 and played in 2 other SB's during that time. What exactly is your definition of sustainable because I'd do a backflip over Niagra Falls for just one Lombardi trophy. Also I still think that folks are in for a surprise if they think this year's Pats team isn't good enough to win the division, make the SB, win a championship, etc. Remember as the calender flips to November and especially December they simply don't lose games. A tad defensive? They have the longest run of sustainability ever in the NFL. You don't remember the pre-salary cap days when teams like Oakland, Pittsburgh, Miami, SF, Green Bay, Dallas, and, even for a while, the Bills dominated the league for long periods. Back then, sustainability was simple: identify talent, stockpile it, and add a good coaching staff. I think that the Patriots' "model of success" has been significantly aided by the salary cap which Belichick/NE staff mastered and manipulated from the beginning to a far greater degree than any other organization. That Belichick is a coaching genius is pretty undeniable, and that's a significant piece of their sustainability as well as Brady's undeniable talent and durability. Without Brady and/or Belichick, I think the wheels fall off the cart, but exactly when that happens, who knows? Certainly the general incompetence of the rest of the AFCE in this century hasn't hurt NE's "sustainability". Buffalo, Miami, and NY have too often been just too lousy of teams to do more than put up token resistance to the Pats -- or most other good teams. In some other divisions in both conferences, the teams regularly take turns beating the crap out of each other -- the AFCN and the NFCN where the division rivals regularly seem to go to war come to mind -- so that the teams in those divisions expend a lot of energy and often lose key players against divisional rivals that don't even make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 While the mainstream media and #FakeNews would have us believe that the Patriots are infallible, a closer look at this season reveals glaring weaknesses. Their method of winning is simply unsustainable. Timely Calls – The Pats continue to benefit from crucial calls at critical moments. The Chargers and Jets games could have easily gone the other way.Can the Patriots really expect to receive favorable officiating for the rest of the year? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Maiden Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 A tad defensive? You don't remember the pre-salary cap days when teams like Oakland, Pittsburgh, Miami, SF, Green Bay, Dallas, and, even for a while, the Bills dominated the league for long periods. Back then, sustainability was simple: identify talent, stockpile it, and add a good coaching staff. I think that the Patriots' "model of success" has been significantly aided by the salary cap which Belichick/NE staff mastered and manipulated from the beginning to a far greater degree than any other organization. That Belichick is a coaching genius is pretty undeniable, and that's a significant piece of their sustainability as well as Brady's undeniable talent and durability. Without Brady and/or Belichick, I think the wheels fall off the cart, but exactly when that happens, who knows? Certainly the general incompetence of the rest of the AFCE in this century hasn't hurt NE's "sustainability". Buffalo, Miami, and NY have too often been just too lousy of teams to do more than put up token resistance to the Pats -- or most other good teams. In some other divisions in both conferences, the teams regularly take turns beating the crap out of each other -- the AFCN and the NFCN where the division rivals regularly seem to go to war come to mind -- so that the teams in those divisions expend a lot of energy and often lose key players against divisional rivals that don't even make the playoffs. None compare to the lenght of domination NE has....hell, you add any 2 of them and it still does not match what they've done....most teams are a force for 5-6 years....they're on year # 17.... They are the picture of sustainability...which is why the thread title is weird..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Jauronimo and Yeezus are infamous on Twitter: @travisyost The first take here is amazing. Very #bills. The second one though -- maybe the hottest take in sports history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billz4life820 Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 how is there winning not sustainable? is the last 20 years too small of a sample size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Do you happen to think the earth is flat by any chance? A lot of success over the years. Is that not how one might describe sustained success in the nfl? They have achieved sustained success but is it truly sustainable? Only time will tell. Look at my coin flip analogy. Getting heads 20 times in a row is sustained head but its not a process and only a fool would say its a sustainable run. Jauronimo and Yeezus are infamous on Twitter: @travisyost The first take here is amazing. Very #bills. The second one though -- maybe the hottest take in sports history. Who is TravisYost? And why does he have so many heat maps on his twitter feed? Name 1 way of doing it that lasted longer...they've been a force over 16 years....that is unmatched....they are the definition of sustainability in a sport that is built to prevent a long stretch of dominance...again, name 1 example that's better.... If your point is to say it will end...of course it will...but to say their way is not sustainable is just silly when you look at the actual results.... No he's not...he's better than the Brady of the early 2000's......just look at his stats this year.... Missionary. Time tested with over 7 billion success stories right now. Now THAT's a process. Having Tom Brady is not a #PROCESS. Only processes are sustainable. Edited November 1, 2017 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) They have achieved sustained success but is it truly sustainable? Only time will tell. Your example is terrible and mindless. Flipping a coin is random, what the Pats have done is NOT random, it was accomplished through strategy, attention to detail and hard work. They have achieved sustained success but is it truly sustainable? Only time will tell. Look at my coin flip analogy. Getting heads 20 times in a row is sustained head but its not a process and only a fool would say its a sustainable run. Who is TravisYost? And why does he have so many heat maps on his twitter feed? Missionary. Time tested with over 7 billion success stories right now. Now THAT's a process. Having Tom Brady is not a #PROCESS. Only processes are sustainable. They have achieved sustained success but is it truly sustainable? Only time will tell. Look at my coin flip analogy. Getting heads 20 times in a row is sustained head but its not a process and only a fool would say its a sustainable run. Who is TravisYost? And why does he have so many heat maps on his twitter feed? Missionary. Time tested with over 7 billion success stories right now. Now THAT's a process. Having Tom Brady is not a #PROCESS. Only processes are sustainable. Your example is terrible and mindless. Flipping a coin is random, what the Pats have done is NOT random, it was accomplished through strategy, attention to detail and hard work. Edited November 1, 2017 by mattynh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 Your example is terrible and mindless. Flipping a coin is random, what the Pats have done is NOT random, it was accomplished through strategy, attention to detail and hard work. They have achieved sustained success but is it truly sustainable? Only time will tell. Look at my coin flip analogy. Getting heads 20 times in a row is sustained head but its not a process and only a fool would say its a sustainable run. Who is TravisYost? And why does he have so many heat maps on his twitter feed? Missionary. Time tested with over 7 billion success stories right now. Now THAT's a process. Having Tom Brady is not a #PROCESS. Only processes are sustainable. Your example is terrible and mindless. Flipping a coin is random, what the Pats have done is NOT random, it was accomplished through strategy, attention to detail and hard work. Then what, pray tell, is their process if its not random? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) Then what, pray tell, is their process if its not random? Having the Best Coach and Best QB of all time is like having a 10 sided coin where 9 sides are head and 1 is tails and you wonder why it keeps coming up heads. Truth is I am not intimate with their "process" but I know it exists. I know they favor players who are "poor and hungry" over paying big contracts to guys. Pretty sure they use a lot of analytics in areas others do not. They look for mismatches vs just trying to out execute. They play the best players not the ones they are in love with cause they drafted high. They set higher expectations than other teams. they look for areas in the rules to exploit, etc. Edited November 1, 2017 by mattynh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Also can't manufacture fog every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 Having the Best Coach and Best QB of all time is like having a 10 sided coin where 9 sides are head and 1 is tails and you wonder why it keeps coming up heads. Truth is I am not intimate with their "process" but I know it exists. I know they favor players who are "poor and hungry" over paying big contracts to guys. Pretty sure they use a lot of analytics in areas others do not. They look for mismatches vs just trying to out execute. They play the best players not the ones they are in love with cause they drafted high. They set higher expectations than other teams. they look for areas in the rules to exploit, etc. That's all great if you're into cheating and getting lucky. The Bills have a #Process which is the only sure fire way to consistently win in the NFL. The Pats have a loose collection of unethical BS and stumbled upon a QB in the 6th round. Good luck repeating that for the next 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 (edited) That's all great if you're into cheating and getting lucky. The Bills have a #Process which is the only sure fire way to consistently win in the NFL. The Pats have a loose collection of unethical BS and stumbled upon a QB in the 6th round. Good luck repeating that for the next 100 years. Cheating.....whatever. Lucky? Give me a break, how in the world do you "get lucky" for 2 decades. Accept facts. Edited November 1, 2017 by mattynh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 None compare to the lenght of domination NE has....hell, you add any 2 of them and it still does not match what they've done....most teams are a force for 5-6 years....they're on year # 17.... They are the picture of sustainability...which is why the thread title is weird..... I think what the OP is trying to say is that NE's success is not really a blueprint for continuing dominating the league indefinitely because it's primarily built on a set of lucky coincidences complement by having aquired a great defensive-minded coach and a great QB, who has only sustained 1 significant injury in his playing career -- his 2008 knee injury. Belichick and Brady are not only great at what they do, they complement each other, and as long as they are together, NE can continue it's dominance but it's unlikely the team can keep doing so once 1 or both are gone. IOW, NE's success is largely dependent upon a couple of specific people rather than upon a plan/philosophy/culture sustained by a group whose members can and do change over time. FYI, if you want to discuss sustainability, consider the Steelers and the Packers: In the 43 years between 1972 and 2016, the Steelers have had 35 winning seasons and made the playoffs 29 times under 3 HCs and with 10 different QBs. They won 6 Super Bowls and lost 2 others. In the thirty years since 1987, the Packers have had 24 winning seasons and made the playoffs 19 times under 6 different HCs and with 4 different QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I agree that their method of winning is not sustainable. Particularly their receivers...Welker and then Edelman: Willing and able to catch the quick pass in traffic, get clobbered, then do it again. Without those receivers, Tommy Boy's quick release isn't as much of a weapon. That is probably why he is getting hit more often these days. He has been relying on that type of receiver for many years. Amendola and Hogan can't do it. They are too fragile (or too smart). Add Gronk (Mr. Pushoff) to the mix, and suddenly they can't lose. They also use a lot of "rub" routes, aka illegal pick routes if you are on the opposing team. Maybe someday a ref will start calling OPI, and then the whole system will really start crashing down. They also invest a lot in their O-line, so Tommy Boy is usually safe, and their bruiser running backs can get 5 yards every time. Eventually that O-line magic will end as well. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 I think what the OP is trying to say is that NE's success is not really a blueprint for continuing dominating the league indefinitely because it's primarily built on a set of lucky coincidences complement by having aquired a great defensive-minded coach and a great QB, who has only sustained 1 significant injury in his playing career -- his 2008 knee injury. Belichick and Brady are not only great at what they do, they complement each other, and as long as they are together, NE can continue it's dominance but it's unlikely the team can keep doing so once 1 or both are gone. IOW, NE's success is largely dependent upon a couple of specific people rather than upon a plan/philosophy/culture sustained by a group whose members can and do change over time. FYI, if you want to discuss sustainability, consider the Steelers and the Packers: In the 43 years between 1972 and 2016, the Steelers have had 35 winning seasons and made the playoffs 29 times under 3 HCs and with 10 different QBs. They won 6 Super Bowls and lost 2 others. In the thirty years since 1987, the Packers have had 24 winning seasons and made the playoffs 19 times under 6 different HCs and with 4 different QBs. This guy gets it. And also, New England has no #Process!!!! How can you have any sustained success if you don't have your #Process?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Plus, what no one's pointed out yet: you can't have long-term success in the league with a 6th-round pick at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Then again when your Process is talking about the process. How can you go wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 Then again when your Process is talking about the process. How can you go wrong Step 1. Process Step 2. Trust the Process Step 3. Step 4. Winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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