Gugny Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 As one who only watches baseball during the WS so I can talk to clients, I have a question for baseball fans: we hear about analytics in football, but the Dodgers seem to take it to a different level. Last night we saw what happened when their plan doesn't work. If I'm a Dodgers fan, I'm pissed they pulled Hill. Do you want your team doing this stuff? Did analytics get the Dodgers to the WS? Just curious. It's very popular with some very successful managers, including Joe Maddon, AJ Hinch and Buck Showalter. Terry Collins got bit in the ass by letting emotion come before logic/analytics when he let Matt Harvey go out for another inning in the World Series two years ago. Handling the starters and bullpen properly is what makes or breaks managers in today's MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 It's very popular with some very successful managers, including Joe Maddon, AJ Hinch and Buck Showalter. Terry Collins got bit in the ass by letting emotion come before logic/analytics when he let Matt Harvey go out for another inning in the World Series two years ago. Handling the starters and bullpen properly is what makes or breaks managers in today's MLB. I never thought the mistake was letting Harvey go out for the ninth. The mistake was not being decisive about it -- Harvey had to lobby him hard and who knows what impact that had on a head case like Harvey. And then he left him in too long. That still pisses me off, should have been the Mets series but not for that and Familia and his idiotic 'slide step'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 I never thought the mistake was letting Harvey go out for the ninth. The mistake was not being decisive about it -- Harvey had to lobby him hard and who knows what impact that had on a head case like Harvey. And then he left him in too long. That still pisses me off, should have been the Mets series but not for that and Familia and his idiotic 'slide step'. Nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 26, 2017 Author Share Posted October 26, 2017 I never thought the mistake was letting Harvey go out for the ninth. The mistake was not being decisive about it -- Harvey had to lobby him hard and who knows what impact that had on a head case like Harvey. And then he left him in too long. That still pisses me off, should have been the Mets series but not for that and Familia and his idiotic 'slide step'. Nailed it. Let's change the subject. My balls hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Let's change the subject. My balls hurt. Murphy and Turner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 As one who only watches baseball during the WS so I can talk to clients, I have a question for baseball fans: we hear about analytics in football, but the Dodgers seem to take it to a different level. Last night we saw what happened when their plan doesn't work. If I'm a Dodgers fan, I'm pissed they pulled Hill. Do you want your team doing this stuff? Did analytics get the Dodgers to the WS? Just curious. As a Dodger fan, I agreed with pulling Hill. It would have been his third time through the line up and even by just observing this team, a lot of their starters struggle the third time through. Maybe true of the entire league. I thought he should have let Morrow continue though. Much better odds with him and he has been super of late. Through the year, especially the big Dodger win streak, everything Roberts did worked. It was amazing. Then, all of a sudden it did not. That was the losing streak. Mattingly who was the Dodger manager before Roberts basically did the same thing but was not as successful at it, IMO. I used to say Mattingly rotated through the pitchers until he found the guy with the off day. Maybe the Yanks will sign him for next year if he is available. It is a crap shoot though, on what you get when you bring in a reliever. Many of them seem to have control problems when they come it. And walking the leadoff guy amounts to a run scored about 70% of the time. A personnal observation which was reinforced by a Met announcer years ago but maybe does not hold up statistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 As a Dodger fan, I agreed with pulling Hill. It would have been his third time through the line up and even by just observing this team, a lot of their starters struggle the third time through. Maybe true of the entire league. I thought he should have let Morrow continue though. Much better odds with him and he has been super of late. Through the year, especially the big Dodger win streak, everything Roberts did worked. It was amazing. Then, all of a sudden it did not. That was the losing streak. Mattingly who was the Dodger manager before Roberts basically did the same thing but was not as successful at it, IMO. I used to say Mattingly rotated through the pitchers until he found the guy with the off day. Maybe the Yanks will sign him for next year if he is available. It is a crap shoot though, on what you get when you bring in a reliever. Many of them seem to have control problems when they come it. And walking the leadoff guy amounts to a run scored about 70% of the time. A personnal observation which was reinforced by a Met announcer years ago but maybe does not hold up statistically. Great post. I agree that Hill should have been pulled. Shame on the Astros for not wracking up 5 or 6 runs on him, early. He was off. And yes ... leadoff walks are killers, especially in the post-season, where every lineup is a great lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringMetheHeadofLeonLett Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 As a Dodger fan, I agreed with pulling Hill. It would have been his third time through the line up and even by just observing this team, a lot of their starters struggle the third time through. Maybe true of the entire league. I thought he should have let Morrow continue though. Much better odds with him and he has been super of late. Through the year, especially the big Dodger win streak, everything Roberts did worked. It was amazing. Then, all of a sudden it did not. That was the losing streak. Mattingly who was the Dodger manager before Roberts basically did the same thing but was not as successful at it, IMO. I used to say Mattingly rotated through the pitchers until he found the guy with the off day. Maybe the Yanks will sign him for next year if he is available. It is a crap shoot though, on what you get when you bring in a reliever. Many of them seem to have control problems when they come it. And walking the leadoff guy amounts to a run scored about 70% of the time. A personnal observation which was reinforced by a Met announcer years ago but maybe does not hold up statistically. Yup, was pretty sure Hill for 4-5 was the call going into the game. Take into account his injury history, and keeping him fresher and healthier for a future game was the correct call for game 2. Pulling Morrow was the killer to me. Disagreed at the time because, for as much as I'm glad he's our closer, I still don't trust Jansen with his HR letups. If Puig had just completed that catch (fantastic job just getting into position), Morrow stays in and I'd give us a huge chance of winning. Everything went on script except trusting Jansen for 2 innings against a WS team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowgirlsFan Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 T minus less than 4 hours to first pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Houston again. Wow. And they managed to preserve their bullpen. This team is just steamrolling right now. Especially at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I laugh at the local LA stations talking about how its a shame they may not win it at home and the parade they are going to have from Dodger Stadium to downtown on Friday. I hope they never make it out of Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 It's interesting how differently the bullpens are being managed. HInch is giving his guys a chance to succeed, Roberts is managing his scared (of course it didn't help that Darvish was so bad). That double play Houston turned early was a thing of beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Houston again. Wow. And they managed to preserve their bullpen. This team is just steamrolling right now. Especially at home. That was excellent managing. Dave Roberts, on the other hand, WAY over-managed. Advantage Astros tonight with the pitching matchup. Kershaw is the only Dodger pitcher who represents a probable win. Dodgers are in trouble. On a side note, there were at least three deep flies that I thought were GONE, but barely made the warning track last night. The left-center and right-center fences are almost as deep as dead center (409'). I think that's pretty cool. Looking forward to the game tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowgirlsFan Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I laugh at the local LA stations talking about how its a shame they may not win it at home and the parade they are going to have from Dodger Stadium to downtown on Friday. I hope they never make it out of Houston. Parade talk is always very UNWISE! In 2006 the Dallas City Council published the parade route for the Dallas Mavericks. Bad move! Heat won the title in game 6 on the Dallas Mavericks Court there at the American Airlines Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) I assume thats the last well see of Gilles this series; guy is throwing batting practice. Edited October 29, 2017 by KD in CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 At least it is going back to La La Land! I hate 2-3-2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 At least it is going back to La La Land! I hate 2-3-2! (WRT 2-3-2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) (WRT 2-3-2) I also think WS should best of nine. He he... (2-3-2-1-1) ala 1919. :-) Or it can be like 1921 & play all the games @ the Polo Grounds! ;-) EDIT: FWIW, it happened again in 1922 (Polo Grounds) and 1944 @ Sportsman's Park in St.Louis between Browns & Cardinals. Best of 7, both of those years. :-) Edited October 29, 2017 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 First ... I love 2-3-2. Second ... how about this !@#$ing game?!!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) Raise your hand if you had Keuchel and Kershaw not making it out of the 5th. What a great game. Doubt I'll make it to the last out tonight, but glad that the Houston and LA markets have it easier. Unsolicited prediction with the score 8-7 top 7 man on third two out: after being told he lost his role as closer, Giles gets the save tonight. Edited October 30, 2017 by SinceThe70s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Springer with one of the worst decisions I've ever seen an outfielder make. He had no chance to make that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 Springer with one of the worst decisions I've ever seen an outfielder make. He had no chance to make that play. He just made up for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukester Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Crazy game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 He just made up for it! Yessireee. Holy crap!!! 3 more HRs in the bottom of the inning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Springer with one of the worst decisions I've ever seen an outfielder make. He had no chance to make that play. He made a highlight reel catch when his LF was already settled under the ball a few games back (might have been against the Yanks). Over aggressive on the ball tonight, either over aggressive or crowd noise on the earlier one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowgirlsFan Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 He made a highlight reel catch when his LF was already settled under the ball a few games back (might have been against the Yanks). Over aggressive on the ball tonight, either over aggressive or crowd noise on the earlier one. It was vs NYY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 It was vs NYY. And here comes the tying run to the plate. Sleep? Who needs sleep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Unbelievable series. I've never felt like a team with a 2 run lead in the bottom of the 8th really needed to score! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Unbelievable series. I've never felt like a team with a 2 run lead in the bottom of the 8th really needed to score! It's like a slo-pitch softball game, no lead is safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) LOL...of course the Dodgers answer! Love the fan throwing the HR back while his friend is trying to stop him. Edited October 30, 2017 by KD in CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Expect Jansen to give up a HR here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Expect Jansen to give up a HR here. Close but no cigar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) Close but no cigar! Yes. Fast ball pitcher vs fastball hitting team and the ball really travels here. Guess he gets to do it next inning. Something must be up with the ball. There hasn't been this many home runs since players were juicing. Edited October 30, 2017 by Greybeard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Yes. Fast ball pitcher vs fastball hitting team and the ball really travels here. Guess he gets to do it next inning. Something must be up with the ball. There hasn't been this many home runs since players were juicing. Of course, he'll probably have a four run lead to work with.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukester Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Could barely keep my eyes open but glad I stayed up. That was an instant classic. WOW what a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 LOL...of course the Dodgers answer! Love the fan throwing the HR back while his friend is trying to stop him. Yeah, that guy and the blonde with him were way too excited for a Dodgers home run while wearing Astros gear. That guy who took it and threw it did the right thing! But, a lot of people on twitter were saying what a jerk he was for doing it. They don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 I went to bed in the 9th. As entertaining as this Series has been, it's not great baseball (pitching/defense). I'm still looking forward to Game 6! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinceThe70s Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Yes. Fast ball pitcher vs fastball hitting team and the ball really travels here. Guess he gets to do it next inning. Something must be up with the ball. There hasn't been this many home runs since players were juicing. Nice call: https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/29/world-series-baseballs-leather-justin-verlander-yu-darvish-ken-giles-kenley-jansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Yeah, that guy and the blonde with him were way too excited for a Dodgers home run while wearing Astros gear. That guy who took it and threw it did the right thing! But, a lot of people on twitter were saying what a jerk he was for doing it. They don't get it. probably thought they hit the jackpot by catching a HR baseball in a WS game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Nice call: https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/10/29/world-series-baseballs-leather-justin-verlander-yu-darvish-ken-giles-kenley-jansen During one of the pregame post-season shows, Pero Martinez said when he threw his curve he would jam one finger up against the seam at its narrowest point on ball. His next finger was right next to it and then there was a space between the second finger and the other seam. When he takes one of the current balls, he said look, there is no space, so he said the seams were closer together. I think he was also implying the ball was wound tighter. I would have thought any Pro pitcher could instantly grab a ball and tell if it was bigger or small, heavier or lighter. It makes a big difference in your ability to be consistent and make the ball move. Even a bigger deal on the pitchers confidence level. What wasn't mentioned in the article is a rougher ball will offer more resistance to the air, so in affect, it should move more than a slick ball. Take that and an umpire who seemed to miss more calls than I would believe, and the pitchers are in for a long game. A bit off topic, but after watching more baseball this year than I have ever watched before, I think if it time to let the video systems make the ball and strike calls. It's a big difference when as a pitcher the third pitch brings you to 2 and 1 instead of 1 and 2. I admit the calls go both ways but it makes a big difference when they happen. It is not fair to either pitcher or batter if the calls are not correct. Put a buzzer in the umps hand and if it is a strike, buzz him. He can still make the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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