Notable stat indicative of Taylor's valuable play right now

[JohnC]

It wouldn't surprise me If to a T, T Mobile is doing exactly what McD wants from his signal caller.

 

Provide good game management and protect the football...

Very sharp post. You pointed out exactly what TT is: a good game manager who protects the ball. All the OCs he has played under have basically designed an offense that falls in that manager category. That's not a knock on the qb as it is an accurate description of who he is as a qb. He's not a prolific passer, and never will be. He's not a qb that adeptly goes threw progressions and consistently throws well on seam routes. Would the team be better off with a qb who is capable of directing a more full repertoire offense? I would say so. But we got what we got and the staff is maximizing what they got. Is he the type of qb who can get your team on a serious playoff run. I say no and others are more inclined to say yes.

[DC Tom]

 

Oh, it has to be 2 scores?

 

 

Yeah, let's change that to "down by enough that they have to abandon the run."

 

Taylor looks good in no small part because he's not being asked to do everything, and the play calling is pretty damn good. That's easy to do when you're down by 4...but it gets a little dicier when you're down by 9 with four minutes left and your options start to narrow.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

You're constantly all over the place and it's really to follow your thought process regarding Taylor.

 

Simple question, then.

 

If the Bills go, let's say 11-5, make the playoffs, and win a game, is that then absolute validation that Taylor is the guy?

 

Yes?

 

No?

Have you not been paying attention? at all?

 

have you forgotten my post already about TT needing to win (I loosened the #'s from the 1st time I posted it) 7 of 9 for him to prove to me he is good enough to prove me wrong that he can be THE guy for a bit longer.

[San-O]

Mods, feel free to merge this with another thread if you want, but this stat isn't something you can just find. You need to go to the ESPN splits for every single QB in the NFL to find this particular stat... so I figured it deserved some discussion, since it has been a point of criticism for Taylor in 2015 and 2016.

 

Tyrod Taylor has the 3rd highest passer rating in the NFL when trailing the opponent.

 

#1- Alex Smith at 136.2

#2- Russell Wilson at 115.7

#3- Tyrod Taylor at 114.2

 

 

That's significantly better than 2015 (95.6) or 2016 (92.5) and I think it's something to put your finger on in terms of an area of improvement.

 

 

 

He's also 8/19 (42.1%) with 1 TD on 3rd downs when trailing.

 

 

Look, he's doing what he's asked to do when he's asked to do it and he's doing it at a pretty high level. The Bills have actually been ahead the majority of the time this year, and on the year, when the Bills have been either trailing or tied with the opposition, Taylor has thrown 74% of his passes (at a 69% completion %) for 77% of his yards and 80% of his TDs. He's also been a more efficient runner when trailing or tied. He's gained 75 yards at 5.8 YPC, as opposed to the 43 yards at 2.4 YPC when the team has been ahead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If McDermott and Bean are not moving forward with someone like Sammy Watkins, are true talent, why on earth would they put their collective futures in the Tyrod Taylor basket?

 

The Bills taking a true NFL QB somewhere in the 2018 draft, and everyone should probably just understand that.

 

IMO.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

If McDermott and Bean are not moving forward with someone like Sammy Watkins, are true talent, why on earth would they put their collective futures in the Tyrod Taylor basket?

 

The Bills taking a true NFL QB somewhere in the 2018 draft, and everyone should probably just understand that.

 

IMO.

I think that's probably true but I can tell you that they are a LOT higher on Taylor than we think they are.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

Yeah, let's change that to "down by enough that they have to abandon the run."

 

Taylor looks good in no small part because he's not being asked to do everything, and the play calling is pretty damn good. That's easy to do when you're down by 4...but it gets a little dicier when you're down by 9 with four minutes left and your options start to narrow.

 

Well, okay. That's only happened once for this team on the final drive in Carolina. In that drive, Taylor was excellent in an otherwise awful game. Barring a nice completion to Holmes called back on a questionable OPI and/or Zay Jones losing the rookie hiccups, we probably would have won and would be 4-0 right now.

 

We didn't. But at a time we had to abandon the run, Taylor had us moving down the field pretty efficiently.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

Bang, it should be a silly question, but I'm trying to figure out what the heck Shady is thinking considering he said the notable stat of Taylor's value is "3 wins 1 loss."

 

It's head scratching to me the way people still attribute QB play almost solely to Ws and Ls.

it means the Bills win / loss ration is 3 to 1 and not 50%. If he plays consistently and relies on his receiving corps I could see 12-4.

 

We've all seen people arguing that Brady, Breese, Rogers, Ryan all have had crap passing yards in wins and losses.

So, basically stats are pretty numbers to banter about and do not guarantee a win or loss.

 

TT can convince me he is the man by defeating the likes of Tom Brady (repeatedly)

 

Now, I ask you

 

Look back these past 24 to 26 hours and tell me how disparaging I have been towards TT.

 

I stopped when this was implied

(wait Shady, 12 -4 is asking too much from TT and you are being unreasonable)

Edited October 4, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[transplantbillsfan]

Have you not been paying attention? at all?

 

have you forgotten my post already about TT needing to win (I loosened the #'s from the 1st time I posted it) 7 of 9 for him to prove to me he is good enough to prove me wrong that he can be THE guy for a bit longer.

 

Dude... what the hell? You literally just said you were being sarcastic about the Ws and Ls.

 

So, you weren't being sarcastic? You put Ws and Ls on the QB that much?

 

If you do (and who knows because the way you post is all over the place a lot of the time), that's just ridiculous.

it means the Bills win / loss ration is 3 to 1 and not 50%

 

We've all seen people arguing that Brady, Breese, Rogers, Ryan all have had crap passing yards in wins and losses.

So, basically stats are pretty numbers to banter about and do not guarantee a win or loss.

 

TT can convince me he is the man by defeating the likes of Tom Brady (repeatedly)

 

Wow. So Taylor can play like utter crap for the next 9 games, but if our D rises up and plays as good or better than it's played so far and we win 7 or 8 games in our next 9, suddenly Taylor is good enough for you?

 

 

Shady, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is a bad one.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

Oh, so you were just trolling. Or joking. Or whatever.

 

Got it

You have a nice day. I'm not letting people pull me into an argument.

 

Dude... what the hell? You literally just said you were being sarcastic about the Ws and Ls.

 

So, you weren't being sarcastic? You put Ws and Ls on the QB that much?

 

If you do (and who knows because the way you post is all over the place a lot of the time), that's just ridiculous.

 

Wow. So Taylor can play like utter crap for the next 9 games, but if our D rises up and plays as good or better than it's played so far and we win 7 or 8 games in our next 9, suddenly Taylor is good enough for you?

 

 

Shady, you're entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is a bad one.

Oh My God, Holy Chit

 

THIS WAS THE JOKE and the sarcasm. -- Everything Taylors fault.

 

Please stop

Edited October 4, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[transplantbillsfan]

Oh My God, Holy Chit

 

THIS WAS THE JOKE and the sarcasm. -- Everything Taylors fault.

 

Please stop

 

Okay... so it was all sarcasm.

 

All good

 

Sarcasm really doesn't translate well on an Internet message board. Just something to consider in the future if you get this upset at people "pulling you into an argument" over comments you don't actually mean seriously.

Edited October 4, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I asked you to Please stop.

Edited October 4, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[SaviorPeterman]

It's no secret I'm not a Taylor fan, and I still don't see him as the long term answer in Buffalo but I do give the guy credit the last few weeks bouncing back big time after a horrid performance in Carolina.

 

Does anybody really believe he's capable of leading this team from behind in games as the stakes get higher in November and December? How about on the road in a playoff game?

[Kelly the Dog]

Yep, McDermott is a fan for sure. Defensive minded coaches love a ball control offense that doesn't make mistakes.

Probably because it frustrates them the most when other teams do that to them. When a team scores on big plays coaches usually pull the "we didn't execute" card. If we only did this or that we would have stopped it.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

 

If McDermott and Bean are not moving forward with someone like Sammy Watkins, are true talent, why on earth would they put their collective futures in the Tyrod Taylor basket?

 

The Bills taking a true NFL QB somewhere in the 2018 draft, and everyone should probably just understand that.

 

IMO.

 

I'm sure they're going to look for an NFL QB in the draft, but if the guy isn't there in the 1st and Taylor plays as he has been playing, we'll be rolling with Taylor very likely, who is also a true NFL QB

I asked you to Please stop.

 

Ignore me. Geez dude take your own incessant advice.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

14. Buffalo Bills: 'Shadow of a Doubt'

"But she's got me thinking 'bout it, yes, she's got me on the edge. With that little bit of mystery, she's a complex kid. And she's always been so hard to figure out. Yeah, she always likes to leave me with a shadow of a doubt."

 

Tyrod Taylor is better than you think he is, but he does always leave you wondering why he's not as good as you think he can be.

 

He ranks so consistently in the top 10 of Total QBR that you wonder if the stat was designed for him. His running ability allows him to make plays other quarterbacks can't or won't, and he has had success when the group around him has been strong.

 

Yet, the way his contract was restructured each of the past two years indicates that the Bills want to see more. And with a new coaching staff in place that drafted Nathan Peterman, you wonder whether Taylor is long for Buffalo.

Edited October 4, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[grb]

 

Yeah, let's change that to "down by enough that they have to abandon the run."

 

Taylor looks good in no small part because he's not being asked to do everything, and the play calling is pretty damn good. That's easy to do when you're down by 4...but it gets a little dicier when you're down by 9 with four minutes left and your options start to narrow.

 

We saw Taylor down by 14 pts three separate times in a single game. We saw him forced by the Bills' defense to play in a total shootout. We saw him need to throw into the endzone on fourth down inside two minutes for the lead. This thing you claim is impossible happened only five games back with Taylor starting. Is it possible you don't remember?

 

Let's review :

• Down by multiple TDs in a game? Check, several times over
• Forced to pass Check, opponent with 494 yds
• Last minute drive Check, TT TD pass with 1:20 left

It almost seems like a laboratory experiment designed to prove your point, doesn't it?

It also seems the purest example of the game situation you're describing.

It also is the latest example of the game situation you're describing with Taylor playing.

 

So does it prove your point?

No?!?

 

Maybe your point isn't as strong as you think........

Edited October 4, 2017 by grb

[grb]

14. Buffalo Bills: 'Shadow of a Doubt'

"But she's got me thinking 'bout it, yes, she's got me on the edge. With that little bit of mystery, she's a complex kid. And she's always been so hard to figure out. Yeah, she always likes to leave me with a shadow of a doubt."

 

Tyrod Taylor is better than you think he is, but he does always leave you wondering why he's not as good as you think he can be.

 

He ranks so consistently in the top 10 of Total QBR that you wonder if the stat was designed for him. His running ability allows him to make plays other quarterbacks can't or won't, and he has had success when the group around him has been strong.

 

Yet, the way his contract was restructured each of the past two years indicates that the Bills want to see more. And with a new coaching staff in place that drafted Nathan Peterman, you wonder whether Taylor is long for Buffalo.

 

I'm curious : You did bold "success when the group around him has been strong" because it's an absolute ludicrous statement, right? After all, the majority of Taylor's time starting his receiver corps has been an out&out dumpster fire. Maybe you got confused and thought the statement was about Matt Ryan - since the media wrote-off his abysmal game last Sunday because the poor dear was missing multiple all-pro receiving targets. After all, who is so crass as to expect Ryan to play well without Julio Jones and Mohamed Sanu? That wouldn't be fair at all, would it?

Edited October 4, 2017 by grb

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

I'm curious : You did bold "success when the group around him has been strong" because it's an absolute ludicrous statement, right? After all, the majority of Taylor's time starting his receiver corp has been an out&out dumpster fire. Maybe you got confused and thought the statement was about Matt Ryan - since the media wrote-off his abysmal game last Sunday because the poor dear was missing his multiple all-pro receiving targets. After all, who is so crass as to expect Ryan to play well without Julio Jones and Mohamed Sanu? That wouldn't be fair at all, would it?

That was an ESPN blurb.

 

I bolded a statement. What the meaning within the article is, that is up to the reader to figure out.

 

All I can do is make an assumption.

 

My assumption of

 

success when the group around him has been strong" been strong.

 

Apparently the writer thinks the Bills have enough talent on offense to get wins. 3-1 would indicate that no?

Edited October 4, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Very sharp post. You pointed out exactly what TT is: a good game manager who protects the ball. All the OCs he has played under have basically designed an offense that falls in that manager category. That's not a knock on the qb as it is an accurate description of who he is as a qb. He's not a prolific passer, and never will be. He's not a qb that adeptly goes threw progressions and consistently throws well on seam routes. Would the team be better off with a qb who is capable of directing a more full repertoire offense? I would say so. But we got what we got and the staff is maximizing what they got. Is he the type of qb who can get your team on a serious playoff run. I say no and others are more inclined to say yes.

 

....and if he is a good game manager which leads to a potential playoff berth, what the hell is the problem?....he's here as the starter in 2017 which does NOT preclude Bills picking a 1st round QB in 2018....sure there are cap implications in 2018, but I'm not sure where else he would go if released to make anything more than backup money....BUT stranger things have happened.....break the schneid, get a WC berth and we can worry about the details later even WITHOUT 300 yd passing games.....Jesus..........

[grb]

 

but I'm not sure where else he would go if released to make anything more than backup money....

 

Hilarious.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

 

Hilarious.

 

...not meant to be a slam by ANY means......I sure as hell want the kid to succeed and realize his lifelong dream to be an NFL starting QB........just saying there were no bites leaguewide for his services prior to Buffalo restructure.....what's hilarious?.............

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

...not meant to be a slam by ANY means......I sure as hell want the kid to succeed and realize his lifelong dream to be an NFL starting QB........just saying there were no bites leaguewide for his services prior to Buffalo restructure.....what's hilarious?.............

He was never available to any team other than the Bills at any point this offseason. Not sure what made you think otherwise.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

...not meant to be a slam by ANY means......I sure as hell want the kid to succeed and realize his lifelong dream to be an NFL starting QB........just saying there were no bites leaguewide for his services prior to Buffalo restructure.....what's hilarious?.............

 

link?

[Utah John]

I think the biggest difference between the O and D is that the D plays consistently well much more of the time. Other teams generally get a couple of long drives (Atlanta did better, but with a really good offense), but the Bills force a lot of 3 and outs or short drives. The Bills O sometimes gets it going and dominates, but the next possession is a 3 and out. What's up with that? I really would like to see the Bills get MORE dominant on O when they have a lead. Step on their throat, as the current buzz phrase has it.

He was never available to any team other than the Bills at any point this offseason. Not sure what made you think otherwise.

I don't think this is correct. My understanding is that when the Bills came to him and told him they wanted him to take a pay cut, that essentially released him from his contract and let him offer his services to any other team. He got no takers, at least none he wanted, so he re-signed for less money.

[x-BillzeBubba]

I seem to remember the Browns wanted him

[BuffaloHokie13]

I think the biggest difference between the O and D is that the D plays consistently well much more of the time. Other teams generally get a couple of long drives (Atlanta did better, but with a really good offense), but the Bills force a lot of 3 and outs or short drives. The Bills O sometimes gets it going and dominates, but the next possession is a 3 and out. What's up with that? I really would like to see the Bills get MORE dominant on O when they have a lead. Step on their throat, as the current buzz phrase has it.

I don't think this is correct. My understanding is that when the Bills came to him and told him they wanted him to take a pay cut, that essentially released him from his contract and let him offer his services to any other team. He got no takers, at least none he wanted, so he re-signed for less money.

Your understanding is incorrect.

[grb]

 

...not meant to be a slam by ANY means......I sure as hell want the kid to succeed and realize his lifelong dream to be an NFL starting QB........just saying there were no bites leaguewide for his services prior to Buffalo restructure.....what's hilarious?.............

 

Three points :

 

(1) The "Taylor is only a back-up" shtick is on it's last legs. My friendly advice? Don't be the last rat off that sinking ship......

 

(2) Though you didn't bring this one up, the "Bills were looking to dump Taylor" thing is based on zero evidence. Yes, a zillion sportswriters speculated endlessly it was the case, but they never got a quote from anyone - or a quote on deep background - or an anonymous quote - or a quote from someone quoting someone anonymously - or a quote from someone quoting someone anonymously on deep background. Personally, I think the Bills always had an eye towards restructuring from day-one. If anyone did denigrate Taylor behind the scenes, it was contract posturing - and they made damn sure nothing got out which might sour the deal.

 

(3) Taylor never tested the open market. Now did he have an idea where he might go and for how much? Sure. And I'd bet he could have gotten the same money or slightly more than the Bills' deal, but it would have also been short-term cash. Remember, the new contract wasn't a pay cut by this year's wages, it just eliminated long-term guaranteed money for a short-term deal. The Bills didn't want a multi-year commitment, and TT was happy with that if he got his dime along with freedom going ahead. If I had to guess, I'd bet he didn't see any likely landing spots offering better success for his "prove-it" year than staying with the Bills

Edited October 5, 2017 by grb

[Comebackkid]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000856686/article/qb-index-week-5-tom-brady-unfair-alex-smith-on-fire

 

Per NFL.com

#8 Tyrod Taylor QB

 

Bills

 

 

I've read enough about what Taylor can't do. What he can do is scare the daylights out of the league's best defenders like Von Miller, who guarded Taylor on one Week 3 play as if the QB was LeBron James about to take Miller to the hole. Taylor responded by flipping a pass across his body 31 yards down the field to tight end Nick O'Leary. These moments are incredibly common for a quarterback ranked 31st in pass attempts.

 

2017 stats: 4 games | 65.7 pct | 744 pass yds | 7.5 ypa | 5 pass TD | 1 INT | 118 rush yds | 0 rush TD

[grb]

The Bills O sometimes gets it going and dominates, but the next possession is a 3 and out.

 

Currently, the Bills are ranked 13th in the NFL by third down conversion percentage, and that number is dragged down by the Carolina debacle.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

[San-O]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000856686/article/qb-index-week-5-tom-brady-unfair-alex-smith-on-fire

 

Per NFL.com

#8 Tyrod Taylor QB

 

Bills

 

 

I've read enough about what Taylor can't do. What he can do is scare the daylights out of the league's best defenders like Von Miller, who guarded Taylor on one Week 3 play as if the QB was LeBron James about to take Miller to the hole. Taylor responded by flipping a pass across his body 31 yards down the field to tight end Nick O'Leary. These moments are incredibly common for a quarterback ranked 31st in pass attempts.

 

2017 stats: 4 games | 65.7 pct | 744 pass yds | 7.5 ypa | 5 pass TD | 1 INT | 118 rush yds | 0 rush TD

 

 

I read this, and it is a good sign re: Taylor, but the reality I think is the Bills staff know they can't win with Taylor throwing the ball. They are trying to get JUST enough out of the

rushing game (ranked 16 on NFL) to limit Tyrod's attempts to 25 / game. This is dead last in the NFL at this point, and clearly by design. It's working now, which is great. At some point,

the Bills are going to have to move the ball in the air and Tyrod's limitations will again be on display.

[Scott7975]

 

 

I read this, and it is a good sign re: Taylor, but the reality I think is the Bills staff know they can't win with Taylor throwing the ball. They are trying to get JUST enough out of the

rushing game (ranked 16 on NFL) to limit Tyrod's attempts to 25 / game. This is dead last in the NFL at this point, and clearly by design. It's working now, which is great. At some point,

the Bills are going to have to move the ball in the air and Tyrod's limitations will again be on display.

This never makes any sense to me. The only time this offense has moved the ball, outside of like one drive, has been when Taylor was throwing the ball. So why is it the Bills move downfield when they open the playbook and don't do jack when they go back in a shell... would they feel that Taylor cant throw the ball?

 

Ill tell you one thing for sure... they wouldn't be 3-1 with this running game. It hasn't done jack squat. All the running game has done these last 4 games, outside of that one drive, is put the offense in a hole and make it more difficult on Taylor.

[transplantbillsfan]

I don't think this is correct. My understanding is that when the Bills came to him and told him they wanted him to take a pay cut, that essentially released him from his contract and let him offer his services to any other team. He got no takers, at least none he wanted, so he re-signed for less money.

No, this is not correct. Taylor was always under contract with the Bills and the Bills alone. All anyone can do is speculate about what other teams might have offered him on the open market.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

 

I read this, and it is a good sign re: Taylor, but the reality I think is the Bills staff know they can't win with Taylor throwing the ball. They are trying to get JUST enough out of the

rushing game (ranked 16 on NFL) to limit Tyrod's attempts to 25 / game. This is dead last in the NFL at this point, and clearly by design. It's working now, which is great. At some point,

the Bills are going to have to move the ball in the air and Tyrod's limitations will again be on display.

I'm just going to repeat this stat.

 

Tyrod Taylor has the 3rd highest Passer Rating in the NFL when trailing the opponent.

 

And before you say that hasn't been very often, I think if you look it up the Bills have trailed 35-40% of the time so far this year and 49 of Taylor's 99 passing attempts have come in that time.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

No, no, no.......you are reading this all wrong.........it means he's only good in garbage time.

 

Seriously though......the reason they aren't trailing much is because he has responded when given the opportunity to do so by Dennison..........they tend to be ultra conservative with the lead but when they are trailing and being even moderately aggressive Tyrod is generally responding.........despite a terrible WR corps.

Yes I agree. Not that I am hoping we find out but would be interesting to see the impact on these numbers if we are down 10-14 points in games...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

Currently, the Bills are ranked 13th in the NFL by third down conversion percentage, and that number is dragged down by the Carolina debacle.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

which is what we need to not happen again.

[Scott7975]

[BuffaloHokie13]

Interesting because it doesn't really correlate with sack %.

Top 10 by sack % are

1) Alex Smith (11.68%)

2) Tyrod Taylor (10.81%)

3) Andy Dalton (10.22%)

4) Jacoby Brissett (10.00%)

5) Cam Newton (9.68%)

6) Trevor Siemian (9.35%)

7) Josh McCown (9.23%)

8) Aaron Rodgers (8.57%)

9) Carson Palmer (8,50%)

10) Brian Hoyer (8.07%)

[yungmack]

It's no secret I'm not a Taylor fan, and I still don't see him as the long term answer in Buffalo but I do give the guy credit the last few weeks bouncing back big time after a horrid performance in Carolina.

 

Does anybody really believe he's capable of leading this team from behind in games as the stakes get higher in November and December? How about on the road in a playoff game?

Now, Nathan, just chill out. Your turn will come. Be patient and stop with these posts. Don't you have Cinci video to watch?

[Gunsgoodtime]

This never makes any sense to me. The only time this offense has moved the ball, outside of like one drive, has been when Taylor was throwing the ball. So why is it the Bills move downfield when they open the playbook and don't do jack when they go back in a shell... would they feel that Taylor cant throw the ball?

 

Ill tell you one thing for sure... they wouldn't be 3-1 with this running game. It hasn't done jack squat. All the running game has done these last 4 games, outside of that one drive, is put the offense in a hole and make it more difficult on Taylor.

Add in our horrible WR core to this, which the TT haters ignore and it's even more impressive. WR are horrible, even all the analyst know this but somehow it's gets ignored here. Hell I bet Bills coaching knows we are one of the weakest wr core in the nfl

[Scott7975]

Add in our horrible WR core to this, which the TT haters ignore and it's even more impressive. WR are horrible, even all the analyst know this but somehow it's gets ignored here. Hell I bet Bills coaching knows we are one of the weakest wr core in the nfl

And then they use the "We beat Atlanta because they lost Julio" argument.