McDermott and Beane - aligned?

[GunnerBill]

You are dreaming about the coach and GM not being in agreement. Trying to make something out of nothing. Beane said he didn't make the move until he and McD and the owner discussed and agreed.

 

Hmm. I think if you read my post you will see that is not really what I am doing. I am pointing out that we were all in on winning and now we have switched focus. How we have got from there to here is intriguing. I am not suggesting that McDemott did not agree with these trades. I was suggesting the actions suggest a change in tac and wondering where that was driven from.

[oldmanfan]

 

Hmm. I think if you read my post you will see that is not really what I am doing. I am pointing out that we were all in on winning and now we have switched focus. How we have got from there to here is intriguing. I am not suggesting that McDemott did not agree with these trades. I was suggesting the actions suggest a change in tac and wondering where that was driven from.

They are all into winning both short and long term is what I heard.

[Figster]

 

Hmm. I think if you read my post you will see that is not really what I am doing. I am pointing out that we were all in on winning and now we have switched focus. How we have got from there to here is intriguing. I am not suggesting that McDemott did not agree with these trades. I was suggesting the actions suggest a change in tac and wondering where that was driven from.

Russ Brandon was the main culprit in the Watkins trade in my humble opinion.(speculation)

 

I don't think McD or Beane are dumb enough to trash team chemistry less then 4 weeks before the season starts. ( not in my opinion)

Edited August 14, 2017 by Figster

[GunnerBill]

They are all into winning both short and long term is what I heard.

 

And I think it is possible to make that argument based on the actions. I wonder whether a full appraisal of the actions since regime change really supports that?

 

I think maybe my post was taken as me trying to suggest FO dysfunction and I certainly wasn't doing that.

[JohnC]

 

Nope. We definitely traded away 2 players on Friday. I was awake. I think it is intriguing to ask how that fits with the very clear steer McDermott gave in the spring. Have they changed tac and if so who was the driving force in that change.

What did you want McDermott to say when he took over? That he was going to throw away the season so that the team will be good for the future? Oh by the way who wants to buy season tickets? The team may be nasty but the food and drink at the tail gates are terrific.

 

The problem many people have when assessing the two deals that happened over the weekend is that they fail to acknowledge that you can have a dual track approach of being competitive now and still build for the future. It's not an either or. Watkins certainly is a much more dynamic player than Mathews. But that doesn't mean that the replacing player can't be as or nearly as productive as Watkins because of the caliber of our qb and the ground emphasis of our offense. In the same vein Darby is more talented than Gaines. But Gaines is more suited to the zone defense that McDermott will be running.

 

The point that I am making is that when the two transactions are tabulated the on field production is not significantly changed. What is different is now the team is accumulating assets so that it will have the resources to make this team better. I'll take this smarter conceptual approach over the Whaley patchwork approach that has gotten us nowhere.

[Figster]

What did you want McDermott to say when he took over? That he was going to throw away the season so that the team will be good for the future? Oh by the way who wants to buy season tickets? The team may be nasty but the food and drink at the tail gates are terrific.

 

The problem many people have when assessing the two deals that happened over the weekend is that they fail to acknowledge that you can have a dual track approach of being competitive now and still build for the future. It's not an either or. Watkins certainly is a much more dynamic player than Mathews. But that doesn't mean that the replacing player can't be as or nearly as productive as Watkins because of the caliber of our qb and the ground emphasis of our offense. In the same vein Darby is more talented than Gaines. But Gaines is more suited to the zone defense that McDermott will be running.

 

The point that I am making is that when the two transactions are tabulated the on field production is not significantly changed. What is different is now the team is accumulating assets so that it will have the resources to make this team better. I'll take this smarter conceptual approach over the Whaley patchwork approach that has gotten us nowhere.

Good coaching/systems win football games not revolving doors.

 

Draft is a crap shoot, losing more then you win.

 

What gives anyone a reason to think our complety revamped scouting department is up to the task?

 

 

Teams need vets because their experienced / proven...

 

...sounds like practice is going real well today...

 

...so much for good team chemistry...

 

...sigh...

Edited August 14, 2017 by Figster

[GunnerBill]

What did you want McDermott to say when he took over? That he was going to throw away the season so that the team will be good for the future? Oh by the way who wants to buy season tickets? The team may be nasty but the food and drink at the tail gates are terrific.

Think my lost was clear I wasn't judging McDermott on words but on actions.

[JohnC]

Think my lost was clear I wasn't judging McDermott on words but on actions.

McDermott/Beane's actions do fit into their very much expressed endeavor to build a roster that will eventually be able to seriously compete. It's not a task that can be done immediately. There is no doubt that Watkins is an exceptional talent. But because of our qb situation and as it stands our offensive approach his departure with the addition of his replacement will not be a major loss from a production standpoint.

 

You very well know what my position was in the last draft. I was vociferous in wanting a qb to be taken in the first round, either Mahomes or Watson. You took the same position. The new regime felt that a better qb would be available in the next draft. I still disagree with that approach. It didn't come to pass so you move on. What is happening now is that the team is putting itself in a better position to select one of the qbs in this year's crop. That is not an unreasonable position to take.

 

My belief is whether Watkins was on the team or not this was not a playoff team. What I now see is an organization not taking a patchwork approach to a flawed roster and instead building it up in a more coherent manner that fits with what the empowered new HC wants to do.

 

Many people are inexplicably stunned that Watkins was traded. Why be so surprised? He wasn't offered a tender. That in itself should have indicated that he wasn't in the long term plans for this staff.

[26CornerBlitz]

Aligned? It would seem so.

[BillsFan4]

I definitely think they are aligned. Here's a couple,quotes from McDermott's press conference that make me think that -

 

"... to address the second part of your question, really with the draft picks, as we talk about short term and long term, that's a big part of with planning for the future. We believe that you build through the draft and in order to get us into a situation where we can achieve success and sustain it, building through the draft is the way"

 

"...it's got to be the right deal. It's got to be the right situation for us to do something like this and I feel like we're moving in the right direction. I honestly believe that. I will end by saying this - I have the ultimate trust in Brandon and his staff."

 

 

It would be pretty shocking if they weren't on the same page. McDermott seemed to push pretty hard for Beane to be hired from what we can gather. When you listen to each of them talk, they are always talking about similar things - high character, team first, full buy in, players must fit the team/system/culture.

 

If you look at the type of players they both have acquired, they all fit the exact same mould. (McDermott) Zay Jones, Tre White, Micah Hyde, Jordan Poyer. (Beane) Anquan Boldin, Jordan Matthews, EJ Gaines.

They are all players noted for their very high character, and as being 100% team first guys. It's very noticeable when you listen to each of those players talk just how cut from the same cloth all of them are.

 

That's one of the things that really excites me about this new coach/GM combo. They really seem to be in lock step and share an identical vision. I don't think the Bills have had anything like that in quite some time.

[BUFFALOKIE]

JAT

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Is it tin foil hat season?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Perfect alignment, trust the process.

[Mat68]

Russ Brandon was the main culprit in the Watkins trade in my humble opinion.(speculation)

 

I don't think McD or Beane are dumb enough to trash team chemistry less then 4 weeks before the season starts. ( not in my opinion)

I feel the complete opposite. In a PR marketing perspective this trade looks terrible. The most popular player besides Mccoy and Taylor. Russ would not make this move.

[chris heff]

if this was previous years there would be leaks about how the coach and GM don't get along and don't see eye to eye. this duo and maybe Chan and Nix before them are the only ones where i don't think that will be an issue. they seem to be very close and very like minded and they probably work very well together

With any luck they will use all those draft picks on a bunch of water bug backs.

[Figster]

I feel the complete opposite. In a PR marketing perspective this trade looks terrible. The most popular player besides Mccoy and Taylor. Russ would not make this move.

Going into rebuild mode is job security for everyone. Gutting a football team and bringing in a popular , but over the hill vet to appease the fan base are things Russ is fully capable of doing because he's done it in the past.(IMO)

 

Did McD Seem like he was caught off guard with the Watkins trade? because he did to me. Disrupting the Dennison O by removing what has been the tip of the spear in Watkins up to this point is a bad team move on the field and in the locker room in my humble opinion Mat68.

 

I don't think McD/Beane make this trade without help/push from above...

 

...maybe I'm wrong...

Edited August 15, 2017 by Figster

[BADOLBILZ]

Morning TBD..... apologies if this has been raised elsewhere but I couldn't see it in a quick scan of the numerous threads - it was the opening weekend of the Premier League and while trying to digest the Watkins / Darby news my other love - The Arsenal - put me through the ringer Friday night too - so I haven't been on here as much this weekend as normal.

 

The question that has struck me about the decisions to trade Watkins and Darby is this - are McDermott and Beane totally aligned? When Whaley was relieved of his duties after the Draft I never thought there was any chance that the replacement GM was anyone other than Brandon Beane. After the Pegulas had lived through the toxic Doug and Doug era followed by the prickly Doug and Rex era it felt like they had bought in totally to what McDermott was selling and were going to make sure that he had a front office totally ready to deliver his vision. It was the only reason that I gave the team a pass on doing it the "wrong way round" and hiring the coach before the GM.... because they had two guys who knew each other and had something of a shared professional vision.

 

What we know from McDermott's era in total charge (which let's take as February to May) is that he was preparing this team to win in 2017. They kept Tyrod on a reduced contract which essentially said "we know he isn't the long term answer but he is our best bet to win now", they convinced Kyle to come back from one more shot, they signed a bunch of low end free agents for depth (who if on the roster for the qualifying period likely cost them compensatory picks), they drafted back in the 1st round with 2 of the "top 3" Quarterbacks on the board to take a pro ready corner and then they drafted UP twice in the 2nd round of the draft to get "pro ready" players at WR and OT. All of that suggested that the plan was have a successful 2017 so that the pressure is off the new regime going into years 2 and 3 when you might be trying to bed in a new 1st round Quarterback.

 

Brandon Beane arrived in May and the first "big" moves he has made are to trade away the team's best receiver and a starting cornerback for draft capital in 2018. Now at the same time he has signed Anquan Boldin, attempted to sing Jeremy Maclin and made an offer to Gary Barnidge.... but there is little doubt in what went down on Friday that Brandon Beane is looking beyond 2017.

 

Is that really aligned with where McDermott seemed to be pointing the organisation through the spring? Has Beane used his personal relationship with McDermott to convince him they should prioritise rebuilding? Are McDermott and Beane so emboldened by the level of power that the Pegulas seem to have given them that they think they can afford a 3 year rebuild where the Bills don't win until 2019? Or actually does Beane really mean it when he says the team are still actively trying to win in 2017..... ("now and in the future")?

 

Things had got kind of quiet and a bit dull in the organisation since the serious and sober McDermott and Beane arrived..... but it wouldn't be the Bills without some drama and intrigue and now we have some.

 

 

I think it might have gone down like this:

 

Beane: I've got an offer for Watkins and I want more draft picks to get a better shot at one of those 2018 class SoCal QB's that would be such a great fit here in Buffalo

 

McDermott: Well......if you think.....what do you think Terry?

 

TPegs: We should all be on the same page (because that's what I have been told) and Brandon is the personnel man......

 

McDermott: Um......well......OK.....if you guys are both on board(I guess myass is covered) then I guess we should do it

 

 

My guess is that Beane was the only one truly sold on his vision.

 

I think TPegs cluelessness is a huge problem for this organization going forward.

[reddogblitz]

I think it might have gone down like this:

 

Beane: I've got an offer for Watkins and I want more draft picks to get a better shot at one of those 2018 class SoCal QB's that would be such a great fit here in Buffalo

 

McDermott: Well......if you think.....what do you think Terry?

 

TPegs: We should all be on the same page (because that's what I have been told) and Brandon is the personnel man......

 

McDermott: Um......well......OK.....if you guys are both on board(I guess myass is covered) then I guess we should do it

 

 

My guess is that Beane was the only one truly sold on his vision.

 

I think TPegs cluelessness is a huge problem for this organization going forward.

If he believes this he really is clueless.

 

If we don't have a winning season by next year, his seat is VERY HOT if he still has one.

 

We love to talk about building a super bowl team to dominate for a decade blah blah blah. Let a few losses pile up, and pitchforks will brought out hastily.

 

You're Terry's 4th coach in 4 years of ownership. There's no time to screw around.

Edited August 15, 2017 by reddogblitz

[Figster]

If he believes this he really is clueless.

 

If we don't have a winning season by next year, his seat is VERY HOT if he still has one.

 

We love to talk about building a super bowl team to dominate for a decade blah blah blah. Let a few losses pile up, and pitchforks will brought out hastily.

 

You're Terry's 4th coach in 4 years of ownership. There's no time to screw around.

You know red I think what makes the seat hot is the knowledge that your hands are really tied now and you've become another puppet of the puppet master.

 

Doing bad things on strings...

[MarlinTheMagician]

Better this year, and much better in the future. They are aligned on that, it seems to me. Nothing they have done so far suggests to me they are not on track for that. Really no one knows how Darby/Sammy will perform vs. Matthews/Gaines, and that is a small piece of the equation. We are addressing our cap problems, addressing the draft and we have not decimated this year's product like the Jets have. IMHO. Sammy contributed almost nothing last year, and neither did Darby. Why assume we will not be improved?