Knee jerk reaction that losing Sammy is bad for TT?

[GG]

After thinking about the possible rationales for the trade, I kept coming back to the theory that McD and Beane may be leaning towards Tyrod as the franchise QB, especially as the season rolls on.

 

So why the counter intuitive move to trade your best WR to help out your QB - which is opposite of Whaley's thinking in 2014?

 

I think that TT and Sammy never truly meshed as a combo, and one of them had to go. Here's the third off-season between the two, and the word "chemistry" has been the one constant in the reporting of the two and not always in the positive sense.

 

There's never any question who the go to guy is for all QBs, but that never was the case for Tyrod & Sammy. The Bills offense fared much worse in 2015 when Percy went down than when Sammy went down. There wasn't that much drop off in the offense with Sammy in the game vs him being out.

 

The same chemistry question popped up in 2016 and it was the first theme that reporters latched on this training camp. That's unheard of between a QB and his top WR going into year three.

 

Finally, Tyrod's lukewarm parting shots yesterday hint that he won't be as disappointed with Sammy's exit as the fans are.

 

This is not to say that Sammy is not an elite player who won't light it up in LA. I'm just thinking that Bills offense may actually benefit because Tyrod may be working with a WR crew with whom he has better chemistry.

[C.Biscuit97]

TT wasn't a good enough passer to fully utilize him. They were great on deep passes but there were many times he fell at out missed Sammy.

 

Tyrod is one of the worst passing starting qbs in the NFL. But we just took the one thing he did well passing and got rid of it. Prepare for a season of having a leading receiver with 700-600 yards.

[Marty McFly]

After thinking about the possible rationales for the trade, I kept coming back to the theory that McD and Beane may be leaning towards Tyrod as the franchise QB, especially as the season rolls on.

 

So why the counter intuitive move to trade your best WR to help out your QB - which is opposite of Whaley's thinking in 2014?

 

I think that TT and Sammy never truly meshed as a combo, and one of them had to go. Here's the third off-season between the two, and the word "chemistry" has been the one constant in the reporting of the two and not always in the positive sense.

 

There's never any question who the go to guy is for all QBs, but that never was the case for Tyrod & Sammy. The Bills offense fared much worse in 2015 when Percy went down than when Sammy went down. There wasn't that much drop off in the offense with Sammy in the game vs him being out.

 

The same chemistry question popped up in 2016 and it was the first theme that reporters latched on this training camp. That's unheard of between a QB and his top WR going into year three.

 

Finally, Tyrod's lukewarm parting shots yesterday hint that he won't be as disappointed with Sammy's exit as the fans are.

 

This is not to say that Sammy is not an elite player who won't light it up in LA. I'm just thinking that Bills offense may actually benefit because Tyrod may be working with a WR crew with whom he has better chemistry.

 

 

Sounds like the season Stafford had after Megatron left. Its possible. Positive thinking is good.

[Watkins101]

TT wasn't a good enough passer to fully utilize him. They were great on deep passes but there were many times he fell at out missed Sammy.

Tyrod is one of the worst passing starting qbs in the NFL. But we just took the one thing he did well passing and got rid of it. Prepare for a season of having a leading receiver with 700-600 yards.

Hey, a reciever with 700 yards is better than last year.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Sounds like the season Stafford had after Megatron left. Its possible. Positive thinking is good.

Minus the part where we ever forced the ball to Sammy

[Maury Ballstein]

Tt blows. Gonna regress even further from last years putrid passing numbers without #14

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

Sounds like the season Stafford had after Megatron left. Its possible. Positive thinking is good.

I like positive thinking. I also have eyes and know Stafford is miles above TT as a passer.

[Bills757]

TT wasn't a good enough passer to fully utilize him. They were great on deep passes but there were many times he fell at out missed Sammy.

 

Tyrod is one of the worst passing starting qbs in the NFL. But we just took the one thing he did well passing and got rid of it. Prepare for a season of having a leading receiver with 700-600 yards.

 

Wouldn't have done much good hitting Watkins in the hands when he's on the sidelines nursing an injury.

Tt blows. Gonna regress even further from last years putrid passing numbers without #14

 

How so? Sammy missed half the season and was probably less than 100% for the games he actually did play.

 

It's amazing the idiotic posts I read on this board. Too many act like upset little kids that didn't get a participation trophy.

[Jasovon]

TT might benefit from a receiver that can play 16 games....

[Crusher]

After thinking about the possible rationales for the trade, I kept coming back to the theory that McD and Beane may be leaning towards Tyrod as the franchise QB, especially as the season rolls on.

 

So why the counter intuitive move to trade your best WR to help out your QB - which is opposite of Whaley's thinking in 2014?

 

I think that TT and Sammy never truly meshed as a combo, and one of them had to go. Here's the third off-season between the two, and the word "chemistry" has been the one constant in the reporting of the two and not always in the positive sense.

 

There's never any question who the go to guy is for all QBs, but that never was the case for Tyrod & Sammy. The Bills offense fared much worse in 2015 when Percy went down than when Sammy went down. There wasn't that much drop off in the offense with Sammy in the game vs him being out.

 

The same chemistry question popped up in 2016 and it was the first theme that reporters latched on this training camp. That's unheard of between a QB and his top WR going into year three.

 

Finally, Tyrod's lukewarm parting shots yesterday hint that he won't be as disappointed with Sammy's exit as the fans are.

 

This is not to say that Sammy is not an elite player who won't light it up in LA. I'm just thinking that Bills offense may actually benefit because Tyrod may be working with a WR crew with whom he has better chemistry.

If that's this regime's logic...they have no shot.

 

And I actually do think you are right, unfortunately.

 

They are choosing Tyrod and their system over Watkins and talent.

[GG]

If that's this regime's logic...they have no shot.

 

And I actually do think you are right, unfortunately.

 

They are choosing Tyrod and their system over Watkins and talent.

 

We won't know until it plays out.

 

But I can see the logical progression going like this - If one of them has to go, it makes sense to move on from Sammy despite his talent. If Tyrod is decidedly not the guy, then you are realistically looking at 2019 as the year where the new QB starts to pan out. In the meantime, you're spending $50 - $60 million on a star WR with an unproven QB.

 

Even with Sammy's talent, he wasn't adding more to the wins than other pieces in Bills' offense. Tyrod with a functioning offense does a lot more for you than Sammy with a rookie QB.

[Alphadawg7]

Losing Sammy is a big blow to TT no matter how you look at it. Its undebatable the connection they had because TT and Sammy were highly productive together and TT clearly trusted him more than any guy on the field and would make throws to him he didn't make to others.

 

HOWEVER: This years WR group is still substantially better than the rag tag scrubs we had last year. So while its tough for a QB to lose a rare talent like Sammy who he clearly trusts, there is a lot more talent for him to still work with than in years past, including a true veteran pro like Boldin.

 

So, I think TT will have plenty to work with, the only major issue is he hasn't had any where near the time with them as he had with Sammy. Timing and trust are massively important to a QB with his WR's, so hopefully the new guys Boldin and Jordan can get a groove with him early to go along with the other new guys who have been here slightly longer.

[cba fan]

If that's this regime's logic...they have no shot.

 

And I actually do think you are right, unfortunately.

 

They are choosing Tyrod and their system over Watkins and talent.

Yes. Sounds like what Rex did with the Jim Schwartz D.

[aristocrat]

This season all about the defense for me

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Tt blows. Gonna regress even further from last years putrid passing numbers without #14

THERE WAS NO 14 LAST YEAR

[JM2009]

THERE WAS NO 14 LAST YEAR

Pretty much.

[BringBackOrton]

THERE WAS NO 14 LAST YEAR

This is why you aren't taken seriously. He played some and had some good games.

 

Sammy and Jordan Matthews had the same number of games over 80 yards receiving last year.

 

Sammy's best game was 7 rec on 10 targets for 154 yards and 1 TD.

 

Matthews best game was 7 rec on 14 targets for 114 yards and 1 TD.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

After thinking about the possible rationales for the trade, I kept coming back to the theory that McD and Beane may be leaning towards Tyrod as the franchise QB, especially as the season rolls on.

 

So why the counter intuitive move to trade your best WR to help out your QB - which is opposite of Whaley's thinking in 2014?

 

I think that TT and Sammy never truly meshed as a combo, and one of them had to go. Here's the third off-season between the two, and the word "chemistry" has been the one constant in the reporting of the two and not always in the positive sense.

 

There's never any question who the go to guy is for all QBs, but that never was the case for Tyrod & Sammy. The Bills offense fared much worse in 2015 when Percy went down than when Sammy went down. There wasn't that much drop off in the offense with Sammy in the game vs him being out.

 

The same chemistry question popped up in 2016 and it was the first theme that reporters latched on this training camp. That's unheard of between a QB and his top WR going into year three.

 

Finally, Tyrod's lukewarm parting shots yesterday hint that he won't be as disappointed with Sammy's exit as the fans are.

 

This is not to say that Sammy is not an elite player who won't light it up in LA. I'm just thinking that Bills offense may actually benefit because Tyrod may be working with a WR crew with whom he has better chemistry.

 

...RODAK said this was a set up for TT to fail.....it MUST be the case......BO and MIKE know.......

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

This is why you aren't taken seriously. He played some and had some good games.

 

Sammy and Jordan Matthews had the same number of games over 80 yards receiving last year.

 

Sammy's best game was 7 rec on 10 targets for 154 yards and 1 TD.

 

Matthews best game was 7 rec on 14 targets for 114 yards and 1 TD.

He had A good game. Not some. 1/16.

[BringBackOrton]

He had A good game. Not some. 1/16.

3 catches on 3 targets for 80 yards ain't half bad.

 

Neither is 4 catches on 6 targets for 54 yards and a TD.

[Direhard Fan]

Sammy wasn't going to be with us next year. He still has to pass his physical in LA. He won't last the entire year there. He wanted mega bucks next year and we were not going to give it to him. TT, whom I love, now has two seasoned healthy receivers and a great rookie. How can you not love that. So far practice has shown the screen to backs more. The new management team really seems like they know what they are doing. Give them a chance for pets sake. The glass is half full. I love it. Darby is a man to man guy. The new "D" is zone. Whats not to like.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Direhard Fan

[aristocrat]

 

THERE WAS NO 14 LAST YEAR

 

 

This is why you aren't taken seriously. He played some and had some good games.

 

Sammy and Jordan Matthews had the same number of games over 80 yards receiving last year.

 

Sammy's best game was 7 rec on 10 targets for 154 yards and 1 TD.

 

Matthews best game was 7 rec on 14 targets for 114 yards and 1 TD.

 

If Matthews is available all 16 games he's a better option than Sammy was last year which means our offense will be better than it was last year. Is it better than it could be with Sammy? Probably not. But if we have a better offense than last year does that make us a top five offense? Close

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BringBackOrton]

If Matthews is available all 16 games he's a better option than Sammy was last year which means our offense will be better than it was last year. Is it better than it could be with Sammy? Probably not. But if we have a better offense than last year does that make us a top five offense? Close Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He wasn't available all 16 games last year, soooo

[aristocrat]

 

If Matthews is available all 16 games he's a better option than Sammy was last year which means our offense will be better than it was last year. Is it better than it could be with Sammy? Probably not. But if we have a better offense than last year does that make us a top five offense? Close Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

He wasn't available all 16 games last year, soooo

fine. If he's available 14 games it means we have a better offense than last year.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BringBackOrton]

fine. If he's available 14 games it means we have a better offense than last year. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe. But it's no guarantee Sammy only plays 8 games again, either.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

 

Sounds like the season Stafford had after Megatron left. Its possible. Positive thinking is good.

I think this is what we are all hoping will happen. Get rid of one elite target but make sure there are multiple really good or good targets. Hope that the QB spreads it around and get it to all of those targets. I think this is a pretty good way to figure out if Taylor can actually spread the ball around to multiple receivers.

 

If Taylor can be a franchise QB, this is the year he answers that question

[aristocrat]

 

fine. If he's available 14 games it means we have a better offense than last year. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Maybe. But it's no guarantee Sammy only plays 8 games again, either.

 

Literally not at all what I said. Not at all

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BringBackOrton]

Literally not at all what I said. Not at all Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn't say you did.

[JM2009]

I think this is what we are all hoping will happen. Get rid of one elite target but make sure there are multiple really good or good targets. Hope that the QB spreads it around and get it to all of those targets. I think this is a pretty good way to figure out if Taylor can actually spread the ball around to multiple receivers.

 

If Taylor can be a franchise QB, this is the year he answers that question

Good post.

[aristocrat]

 

Literally not at all what I said. Not at all Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

I didn't say you did.

 

But then why respond with talk of sammys 8 games?

 

If Matthews plays 14 games this year we have a better offense than last season. Probably not better than it could be with Sammy this year but we have still improved on last years offense. So at the end of the day we still got better from last year but maybe not as good as with Sammy. So we are still a better team and that's a hard fact

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BringBackOrton]

But then why respond with talk of sammys 8 games? If Matthews plays 14 games this year we have a better offense than last season. Probably not better than it could be with Sammy this year but we have still improved on last years offense. So at the end of the day we still got better from last year but maybe not as good as with Sammy. So we are still a better team and that's a hard fact Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's why. If your goal is to improve the offense, keep Sammy.

[transplantbillsfan]

If that's this regime's logic...they have no shot.

 

And I actually do think you are right, unfortunately.

 

They are choosing Tyrod and their system over Watkins and talent.

Better to have your answer on the QB and then a WR Who might never be able to stay healthy, anyway

 

We have plenty of draft picks next year to get an elite WR if Taylor proved to be the answer. We have plenty of draft picks to get our guy at QB along with a really good WR if Taylor doesn't prove to be the answer.

 

This is a move that puts all the chips on the table for TT to prove himself without anyone being able to call Sammy the crutch that made him good.

 

It's interesting and scary, but the right move probably given our stockpile of draft picks next year.

Edited August 12, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[Marty McFly]

I think this is what we are all hoping will happen. Get rid of one elite target but make sure there are multiple really good or good targets. Hope that the QB spreads it around and get it to all of those targets. I think this is a pretty good way to figure out if Taylor can actually spread the ball around to multiple receivers.

 

If Taylor can be a franchise QB, this is the year he answers that question

 

Word.

[transplantbillsfan]

Losing Sammy is a big blow to TT no matter how you look at it. Its undebatable the connection they had because TT and Sammy were highly productive together and TT clearly trusted him more than any guy on the field and would make throws to him he didn't make to others.

 

HOWEVER: This years WR group is still substantially better than the rag tag scrubs we had last year. So while its tough for a QB to lose a rare talent like Sammy who he clearly trusts, there is a lot more talent for him to still work with than in years past, including a true veteran pro like Boldin.

 

So, I think TT will have plenty to work with, the only major issue is he hasn't had any where near the time with them as he had with Sammy. Timing and trust are massively important to a QB with his WR's, so hopefully the new guys Boldin and Jordan can get a groove with him early to go along with the other new guys who have been here slightly longer.

Exactly! My biggest criticism about this whole thing in the way that it played out is how late everything is happening.

[aristocrat]

 

But then why respond with talk of sammys 8 games? If Matthews plays 14 games this year we have a better offense than last season. Probably not better than it could be with Sammy this year but we have still improved on last years offense. So at the end of the day we still got better from last year but maybe not as good as with Sammy. So we are still a better team and that's a hard fact Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

That's why. If your goal is to improve the offense, keep Sammy.

 

We have improved the offense from last year. This offense has top 5 potential. If tyrod plays that last game we have 100 more yards which puts us at number 10 in the league. It's only about 250 more yards to top five after that. With this better group of receivers than last year we have a shot

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

That's why. If your goal is to improve the offense, keep Sammy.

Wrong again.

[BringBackOrton]

We have improved the offense from last year. This offense has top 5 potential. If tyrod plays that last game we have 100 more yards which puts us at number 10 in the league. It's only about 250 more yards to top five after that. With this better group of receivers than last year we have a shot Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Awesome. Our passing game was 30th. Hallelujah. 29th here we come.

 

Wrong again.

Substantial post.

[transplantbillsfan]

3 catches on 3 targets for 80 yards ain't half bad.

 

Neither is 4 catches on 6 targets for 54 yards and a TD.

Eh... he missed half the season. And Sammy was clearly hobbled pretty much the whole year last year when he actually played. If Jones, Matthews, and Bolden can stay healthy this year I think or wide receiving corps should be better than last year.

 

It's not like Sammy being on the field ever correlated with winning. The team was 5-3 without him and one of those losses was one of Taylor's 2 best career games.

[Punching Bag]

Tt blows. Gonna regress even further from last years putrid passing numbers without #14

 

Nice for you to show your true colors Maury "Ram head" Ballstein.

[HappyDays]

This is backwards thinking but strangely I agree. Actually I think it tells us what we already knew, that McBeane isn't sold on Tyrod and want to see what he can do. So they built up a strong core of receivers, without any elite talent, and the running game will still be successful. With this core I don't think there are any excuses for Tyrod this year barring a series of big injuries. We'll see if he's worth the future or not. IMO our receiving core as a whole is better than last year's. I really couldn't be happier with how they handled the WR position.