eball Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 McD became GM as soon as he was hired. Even if we buy this, you still haven't given one shred of explanation for your "trying to save money" diatribe. It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 If Logan Thomas keeps having practices like he has he is going to easily make this team and could see more time than O'Leary who really is just blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 If Logan Thomas keeps having practices like he has he is going to easily make this team and could see more time than O'Leary who really is just blah Difference is, and Sal referred to it in WGR last night, when you trot Thomas out as your second TE you say "we are passing" because he can't block. While O'Leary is much less dynamic as a receiver he is a dual purpose tight end and that is why he still has the inside track on the #2 job. Sal thinks Thomas may even be behind some of the other guys as a blocker..... the question is can they be inventive enough to have a small package of plays where he is in as a pass catcher? I think the standard two TE package still looks like Clay - O'Leary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) Difference is, and Sal referred to it in WGR last night, when you trot Thomas out as your second TE you say "we are passing" because he can't block. While O'Leary is much less dynamic as a receiver he is a dual purpose tight end and that is why he still has the inside track on the #2 job. Sal thinks Thomas may even be behind some of the other guys as a blocker..... the question is can they be inventive enough to have a small package of plays where he is in as a pass catcher? I think the standard two TE package still looks like Clay - O'Leary. There has been packages that have trotted out with the ones that have Clay, O'Leary and Thomas with the ones. That tells me where they think they see Thomas. Second a Clay Thomas (Flexed off line) doesnt scream pass because Clay is one hell of a blocker and Thomas can effectively handle running a LBer or Safety off. Cant ignore every practice he gets better. Then his athletic ability. Lets see if he can show it game time during Preseason games as well. But i think he makes the team and may get more snaps than O'Leary during the season if his progression continues. Did people care about Graham's weak blocking, Vernon Davis weak blocking, Reeds weak blocking, Gates blocking liability early in thier careers? Edited August 3, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Difference is, and Sal referred to it in WGR last night, when you trot Thomas out as your second TE you say "we are passing" because he can't block. While O'Leary is much less dynamic as a receiver he is a dual purpose tight end and that is why he still has the inside track on the #2 job. Sal thinks Thomas may even be behind some of the other guys as a blocker..... the question is can they be inventive enough to have a small package of plays where he is in as a pass catcher? I think the standard two TE package still looks like Clay - O'Leary. I think you can probably split him out in the slot, put him up against a linebacker and even if it's a run play, just have him run off the linebacker and safety on a vertical route. It'll take away that linebacker in the box. He might just be a guy that you put out there on obvious passing downs. I would assume that if he's on the field along with Clay....either Thomas or Clay would have a linebacker singled up on them and we should win that match up the majority of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Difference is, and Sal referred to it in WGR last night, when you trot Thomas out as your second TE you say "we are passing" because he can't block. While O'Leary is much less dynamic as a receiver he is a dual purpose tight end and that is why he still has the inside track on the #2 job. Sal thinks Thomas may even be behind some of the other guys as a blocker..... the question is can they be inventive enough to have a small package of plays where he is in as a pass catcher? I think the standard two TE package still looks like Clay - O'Leary. If Logan is out there and he motions out wide it's almost as effective as a blocker scheme-wise because he needs to be accounted for, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 That catch Thomas made yesterday was impressive. I think that he will have a role on this team moving forward. He may fill some of the void left by Hunter. Thomas has a chance to be a weapon in the redzone and a mismatch elsewhere. He's so physically gifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Just use Logan as a big WR until he learns to block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 With Clay out today for Maintenance Day. Interested to see the TE rotation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 That next man up also blew chunks(not my dog) last season. Stupid risk they took/are taking for a measly million. he also has looked pretty solid this preseason. Give it a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Did people care about Graham's weak blocking, Vernon Davis weak blocking, Reeds weak blocking, Gates blocking liability early in thier careers? I think he is behind a Vernon Davis or a Gates even early in their careers as a blocker based on what we hear. Graham and Reed are basically used as slot guys as much as Tight Ends in truth hence the famous Graham salary tag argument. I am not arguing against Thomas being on the team or that they can't use him split wide and in 3 TE packages.... I just don't know if he truly supplants O'Leary as the #2 in Dennison's base two TE set because Dennison likes to be able to trot that same personnel out and run or pass out of identical formations. It is why Owen Daniels had so many big years in the system... he wasn't the tallest for a tight end and he wasn't a physical freak... he was just a sure handed ball catcher who knew how to execute his blocking assignments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I think he is behind a Vernon Davis or a Gates even early in their careers as a blocker based on what we hear. Graham and Reed are basically used as slot guys as much as Tight Ends in truth hence the famous Graham salary tag argument. I am not arguing against Thomas being on the team or that they can't use him split wide and in 3 TE packages.... I just don't know if he truly supplants O'Leary as the #2 in Dennison's base two TE set because Dennison likes to be able to trot that same personnel out and run or pass out of identical formations. It is why Owen Daniels had so many big years in the system... he wasn't the tallest for a tight end and he wasn't a physical freak... he was just a sure handed ball catcher who knew how to execute his blocking assignments. And thats Clay. Who was the 2nd TE on those teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Whatever you want to call it. Saving money/not wanting to spend the money/letting KNOWN quality players walk and replacing them with UNKNOWN rookies. My "diatribe" has been the Bills preach they are all in this year and going for it, but their actions in don't really justify that. The depth is bad and as I said they replaced starters with rookies. Cross your fingers just about every starter miraculously stays healthy for all 16. Once the injuries hit, the consistent losing will begin. The only accurate part of your offseason-long diatribe is that the Bills did allow some veteran players to go elsewhere and will be counting on new faces to provide depth. The problem is that you continue to say they are trying to save money -- which is clearly not the case. They made value decisions on where to allocate their resources you don't agree with -- that's it. It's actually a refreshing change that they aren't throwing money around in an effort to "end the drought at all costs" and are making deliberate, thoughtful plans for both this season and the future. It's a shame you can't see that (or don't want to acknowledge it). Fans who insist the Bills should be going "balls to the wall" to end the playoff drought this season are clearly not looking at the bigger picture of what Pegula/Beane/McD want to accomplish here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Whatever you want to call it. Saving money/not wanting to spend the money/letting KNOWN quality players walk and replacing them with UNKNOWN rookies. My "diatribe" has been the Bills preach they are all in this year and going for it, but their actions in don't really justify that. The depth is bad and as I said they replaced starters with rookies. Cross your fingers just about every starter miraculously stays healthy for all 16. Once the injuries hit, the consistent losing will begin. All rookies are unknown and every team will have rookies start for them. You actually want to your first rounders to contribute right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 And thats Clay. Who was the 2nd TE on those teams? There was another guy who played for them both in Houston and Denver called Casey (I think) who was a pure blocking TE and sometimes played fullback. Virgil Green was on the roster in Denver who has also been used primarily as a blocking TE in his NFL career. That is the way this offense has traditionally run like it or not. I doubt that Dennison gets away from that and suddenly makes his #2 TE in his base dual TE formation a pure pass catcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 There was another guy who played for them both in Houston and Denver called Casey (I think) who was a pure blocking TE and sometimes played fullback. Virgil Green was on the roster in Denver who has also been used primarily as a blocking TE in his NFL career. That is the way this offense has traditionally run like it or not. I doubt that Dennison gets away from that and suddenly makes his #2 TE in his base dual TE formation a pure pass catcher. Ahhh yes James Casey a spread TE in college that really took time learning blocking skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Ahhh yes James Casey a spread TE in college that really took time learning blocking skills. That's him. And I am not for a moment suggesting Logan Thomas cannot improve his blocking. I am sure he is working very hard on it and the increased reps he is getting tell me they are looking for ways to get him on the field. I just don't see him as taking reps away from O'Leary in that base 2 TE formation so at the moment I think you are going to see them running some 3 TE stuff and some different formations with Thomas split out to get him on the field. If he can get to the position where they trust him in the base 2 TE set then I think he is potentially dynamic because you can use him in what look to the defense to all extents and purposes like "run plays". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I was just thinking about that the other day. How teams look in preseason can be extremely misleading, and there were times last year where they looked "good to go", especially against the Giants. It was a gaff by Rex. Go back to the 2015 preseason. McCoy is obviously a well established player, but he was being left on the field much, much longer than he should have, and was continuously getting pummeled, ultimately leading to an injury before week 1 that lingered all year. Defenses typically dominate in camp/preseason, and I think a lot of that is due to the lack of gelling of offensive lines. Exceptions should be made for certain, established veterans, pertaining to playing time in preseason, but you cannot sacrifice cohesion for the fear of losing players to injury. I think Rex realized the mistake he made with McCoy in 2015, and applied a different strategy in the 2016 preseason, but to the entire starting offense, which was a mistake. If we think back, in 2015 Rex had them running 2 simultaneous teams to get in more reps with his 3 QB. It wasn't just McCoy - recall that we were bringing in scraps at RB cuz every one on the roster was injured. Excessive reps for all was one reason, I think. It was "too much" Then in 2016, Rex did a 180 and had them doing "too little" with the result that we came out flat and under-prepared the first couple games. The question is, will McWrestler get the prep closer to "just right", where they do enough to learn the system and become cohesive, but not enough to injure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 If so, the decision to once again let the coach who ran the strong unit go (Lynn, and before that Schwartz) is going to look really really bad. Our defense is good, let the DC go. Our offense is good, let the OC go. This has been a concern of mine all along. Schwartz might potentially have been retained under a different coach - he had publicly said he would only stay as head coach, but he wasn't getting any HC interviews so there was possibly room for negotiation. Retaining Lynn was not an option except as HC. He wanted to be a HC, he got interviews, he got hired. Did you want to see Lynn as our HC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 If we think back, in 2015 Rex had them running 2 simultaneous teams to get in more reps with his 3 QB. It wasn't just McCoy - recall that we were bringing in scraps at RB cuz every one on the roster was injured. Excessive reps for all was one reason, I think. It was "too much" Then in 2016, Rex did a 180 and had them doing "too little" with the result that we came out flat and under-prepared the first couple games. The question is, will McWrestler get the prep closer to "just right", where they do enough to learn the system and become cohesive, but not enough to injure The issue was not excessive reps. At the outset of camp, McCoy was still nursing an injured foot that he partially blamed for his league-worst yards per touch in 2014 with Philly. Then he IMMEDIATELY hurt his hammy in practice. Fred had issues prior to camp as well, if I recall, and just showed up to rip off a long run in the final preseason game. Karlos busted a nut lifting weights........not in practice. RB is a position where you need two starters and a couple backups....preferably one with a high ceiling who is in development and another who is a vet who can star on ST's. This year they bypassed the second starter and are pushing JW right up from awful reserve to second starter. Hopefully Taiwan Jones fills that last role. A LOT riding on the previously injured/fumble-prone Jon Williams........Shady's carry limit should be under 200 IMO if they hope to keep him fresh and in the lineup every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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