Augie Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 No one is promising these guys are HOF players, but it's a hopeful looking draft year. Did you poo poo the class of '83 since none of them had played in the NFL yet? And Luck has taken a crappy team to the playoffs (admittedly in a weak division) and won. I'll take that, thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 No one is promising these guys are HOF players, but it's a hopeful looking draft year. Did you poo poo the class of '83 since none of them had played in the NFL yet? And Luck has taken a crappy team to the playoffs (admittedly in a weak division) and won. I'll take that, thank you very much. The class of 83 were great but if they all played crappy when they got to the NFL then they wouldn't have been great. Are you serious with Luck? They were crappy because they tanked. They had been one year removed from being very good. They dumped Manning and Denver won with him. Luck "won" one playoff game and did so with an incredible amount of good fortune in the form of Andy Reid coughing up a giant lead with mind numbing play calling. Before that the Colts got destroyed in the game. He had a legit win in Denver in the playoffs too. That's all I can remember. How much has that cost? The division had been HORRIBLE but is now getting better. The Colts are probably the 3rd best team in there now and closer to the Jags than they are to Hou/Ten. They are trending down due in no small part to being throttled by the bloated amount of their cap sucked up by a QB who has been small under pressure, a playoff turnover machine and oft injured. I will say that I can't call him injury prone. He is a tough guy who has endured some tough luck in that department. I also am not calling him terrible. He simply isn't a guy worth trashing a franchise over. He was completely baffled by the Rex defense in the opener a couple of years ago. Since then, only Jacoby Briskett has looked that bad against Rex. I think mocking the Jets for Darnold going back to school is misplaced. They should be mocked for tanking to get an unproven guy in the first place. There are so many "next big things" that never even make it to there draft with their reputation intact like Claussen and Clocker. Those who do, like Luck and Russell are far from locks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 There are NO locks. ZERO. Only some guesses better than others. I won't pretend to be an expert on any of these guys. But I do think sometimes you have to swing the bat. I don't hate Tyrod, so I don't want to reach for another EJ. But if they love a guy at the right place.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 According to Daniel Jeremiah, Darnold might stay for one or two more seaons at USC. This is going to crap up on JETS' tank plans LOL. Are they willing to be bad for 3 more years? LOL go JETS! http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000818303/article/what-we-learned-about-darnold-top-prospects-at-the-opening?campaign=tw-cf-sf95555414-sf95555414&sf95555414=1&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral Jets have a new Logo as I hear: No way he stays 2 years. Jets will be bad that long anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 There are NO locks. ZERO. Only some guesses better than others. I won't pretend to be an expert on any of these guys. But I do think sometimes you have to swing the bat. I don't hate Tyrod, so I don't want to reach for another EJ. But if they love a guy at the right place.... I don't claim to be some sort of super scout either, but even if I were and I identified the ultimate player....it is hard to justify losing on purpose to get him. Even the ultimate guy can get hurt. Nothing against swinging the bat, but do it at the right time. In the draft at the position you earned or traded for, not the position you got by burning something down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I don't claim to be some sort of super scout either, but even if I were and I identified the ultimate player....it is hard to justify losing on purpose to get him. Even the ultimate guy can get hurt. Nothing against swinging the bat, but do it at the right time. In the draft at the position you earned or traded for, not the position you got by burning something down. Ok, if it's the losing on purpose, we're on the same side there. Now, there are some subtle decisions where the lines get blurred. See sitting TT at the end of the year. Who knows exactly what all the factors were in that decision. I mean, we know a lot of facts, but how were they weighted? Hmmmmm Now, to be clear, I'm all FOR the Chiefs tanking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 He should he needs more time. I'm not a draftnik, so I had no idea Darnold was only a sophomore. That's a pretty big leap to project someone that young as a sure-fire franchise anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Ok, if it's the losing on purpose, we're on the same side there. Now, there are some subtle decisions where the lines get blurred. See sitting TT at the end of the year. Who knows exactly what all the factors were in that decision. I mean, we know a lot of facts, but how were they weighted? Hmmmmm Now, to be clear, I'm all FOR the Chiefs tanking! I'm all in on a Chiefs tank whether purposeful or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Murica Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I'm all in on a Chiefs tank whether purposeful or not. I hope they S%^& the bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) According to Daniel Jeremiah, Darnold might stay for one or two more seaons at USC. This is going to crap up on JETS' tank plans LOL. Are they willing to be bad for 3 more years? LOL go JETS! http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000818303/article/what-we-learned-about-darnold-top-prospects-at-the-opening?campaign=tw-cf-sf95555414-sf95555414&sf95555414=1&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral Jets have a new Logo as I hear: It's not like the Jets are out for Darnold and nobody else. More like the best QB in the draft. If Darnold stays in school, it might disappoint the Jets but it's a long way from saying they failed. Edited July 6, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) There are NO locks. ZERO. Only some guesses better than others. I won't pretend to be an expert on any of these guys. But I do think sometimes you have to swing the bat. I don't hate Tyrod, so I don't want to reach for another EJ. But if they love a guy at the right place.... Sure, no absolute locks. You might get the next Len Bias or your guy might lose a leg in a car accident or lose motivation when he gets a few mill in the bank. But there are near-locks like Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck. I'd go through the two horrible losing seasons of a total rebuild in a second for a guy like that. Plus it's not like if there are no QB locks that year you don't get anything at all. It's worth it to significantly improve your chances. I have no idea whether Darnold or any of these guys next year is one of those. But it's not like you only get the first pick in the first round. You get the first pick in every round. And you can do what the Browns have done and trade back and make sure you're in good position to get great picks for years. I wish we'd rebuilt this year, honestly. IMHO it would have been the best thing in the long run. Very much agreed, of course that they shouldn't reach. Edited July 6, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFan Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 It's not like the Jets are out for Darnold and nobody else. More like the best QB in the draft. If Darnold stays in school, it might disappoint the Jets but it's a long way from saying they failed. Yeah I know they'd stillend up with a good QB. Just that from everything I've read they're pretty hard up for him lol. I'm not a draftnik, so I had no idea Darnold was only a sophomore. That's a pretty big leap to project someone that young as a sure-fire franchise anything. Have you watched his games? He sure passes the eye test. It's not his "physical measurements". nothing to do with size or whatever. It's the poise, decision making, arm, mobility, toughness, and rising up to the occasion in big moments. Yes I'd like to see him do it again this year. Hackenberg had a great freshman(?) year and then everything went south so things can still go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 But there are near-locks like Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck. I'd go through the two horrible losing seasons of a total rebuild in a second for a guy like that. Plus it's not like if there are no QB locks that year you don't get anything at all. . So the hit rate for near locks is 50%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 (edited) OMFG these anointed guys! The guy throws like 3 good passes and the entire NFL has to come to a screeching halt to try to get him. It's pathetic. Look at Andrew Luck and the perennial loser Colts. They can't even win the AFC South consistently and they're about to get lapped by the Texans and Titans. They are toast. Meanwhile Manning won a Super Bowl and got to another after they abandoned him for what so far has been a big $20M nothing burger. How about we let Darnold do something in the NFL before we call him a great NFL QB? Yea, and the fact that they have no offensive line, no running game, no defense, and an inept GM had nothing to do with their problems... Peyton had TONS of help his rookie year and his last year. You think Eli would've won those championships without that defense and running game? You can be the best QB in the NFL but if you don't get the necessary help, it doesn't matter. That doesn't make you any less of a player. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, and Joe Namath are better QBs than Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Philip Rivers because they won the big one. Edited July 6, 2017 by QuoteTheRaven83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Yea, and the fact that they have no offensive line, no running game, no defense, and an inept GM had nothing to do with their problems... Peyton had TONS of help his rookie year and his last year. You think Eli would've won those championships without that defense and running game? You can be the best QB in the NFL but if you don't get the necessary help, it doesn't matter. That doesn't make you any less of a player. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, and Joe Namath are better QBs than Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Philip Rivers because they won the big one. Peyton didn't have much help his rookie year going 3-13... Luck is good, not convinced yet that he will be great though. He is starting to look like a Phillip rivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I'm not a draftnik, so I had no idea Darnold was only a sophomore. That's a pretty big leap to project someone that young as a sure-fire franchise anything. Agreed... and since he's a consensus #1 pick already, apparently... he only stands to eff it up. Why not declare and take that pay day?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 The more QBs declare the better chance the Bills can trade up but not for #1. That would cost too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Yea, and the fact that they have no offensive line, no running game, no defense, and an inept GM had nothing to do with their problems... Peyton had TONS of help his rookie year and his last year. You think Eli would've won those championships without that defense and running game? You can be the best QB in the NFL but if you don't get the necessary help, it doesn't matter. That doesn't make you any less of a player. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, and Joe Namath are better QBs than Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Philip Rivers because they won the big one. There is a thread dedicated to excuses for Andrew Luck. This one is about Darnold and my point, which you just helped make, is that you can't trash a whole team to get one guy. No one player guarantees success for a team. Often times these cant miss guys are JAGs. BTW where did you get your screen name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Yeah I know they'd stillend up with a good QB. Just that from everything I've read they're pretty hard up for him lol. Have you watched his games? He sure passes the eye test. It's not his "physical measurements". nothing to do with size or whatever. It's the poise, decision making, arm, mobility, toughness, and rising up to the occasion in big moments. Yes I'd like to see him do it again this year. Hackenberg had a great freshman(?) year and then everything went south so things can still go wrong. Nope, I've never seen him play. I've just become cynical of any QB hype since so many amount to less than what was promised. Andrew Luck is a great example. He was supposed to be the second coming of Christ from the heavens. He's certainly had a nice career but he's hardly Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. (But his hype sure is.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Nope, I've never seen him play. I've just become cynical of any QB hype since so many amount to less than what was promised. Andrew Luck is a great example. He was supposed to be the second coming of Christ from the heavens. He's certainly had a nice career but he's hardly Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. (But his hype sure is.) Brady and Rodgers also have good rosters. The Colts have had a bottom 3 NFL roster in regards to talent....specifically their offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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