Alaska Darin Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Former Browns' GM and guy Bill Belichick said was "One of the smartest guys I've ever worked with." Interview: http://media.blubrry.com/hardline_stl/insidestl.mc.tritondigital.com/THE_LINE_CHANGE_P/media/062817-4HL.mp3 Story: https://theringer.com/los-angeles-rams-sean-mcvay-stan-kroenke-63646f1f2df2 So many tidbits about the Rams and loser franchises that apply to what we've been watching for the last 17 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 What the article fails to articulate is the meaning of "failed culture" and "successful culture". This is like making a claim but not backing it up. Everyone knows that these teams are bad, but there is no clear articulation of why they are bad. A "failed culture" is a cop out IMHO. The margin between wins and losses in the NFL is razor thin. Detail oriented coaches like Belliched have figured out the nitty gritty details and work on it. In the end, it is those minute details that changes course. The Falcons were up by 20 points in the 2nd half of a Super Bowl, but the team on the opposite sideline still believed in themselves and chipped away. There are too many things than "failed culture" that determine the success of a franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Failed culture my butt! It's called hard work. Winning organizations in EVERY business simply out hustle, outwork and out prepare over those that don't! PS: Rex Ryan never outworked anyone his entire life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Failed culture my butt! It's called hard work. Winning organizations in EVERY business simply out hustle, outwork and out prepare over those that don't! PS: Rex Ryan never outworked anyone his entire life. In sports, none of that matters if the talent isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Obviously cheating to win is vital to being a dominating franchise in New England, but hey, Lombardi will NEVER address that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Failed culture my butt! It's called hard work. Winning organizations in EVERY business simply out hustle, outwork and out prepare over those that don't! PS: Rex Ryan never outworked anyone his entire life. It take more than hard work in most businesses. A good product, timing, a little luck also play into most successful businesses. The Raiders were a joke for 12 years after losing the SB - now they've been "working harder" the last 2 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 I would think if Lombardi was that good at identifying culture problems and how to fix them he'd be in high demand. How many organizations have let him go now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) Failed culture my butt! It's called hard work. Winning organizations in EVERY business simply out hustle, outwork and out prepare over those that don't! PS: Rex Ryan never outworked anyone his entire life. Sure, hard work matters. But you can hustle, work and outprepare and if you're headed the wrong way, if you're using a bad method, it just won't matter. I agree that hard work may have been an issue with Ryan, but a bigger issue is that he didn't set expectations for the players about controlling themselves and being responsible, he didn't run a smart program and he didn't face up to the fact that it was going to take time to switch defenses. Oh, and he was with a GM who he had conflicts with, a GM who in Ryan's first two years got him zero first round draft picks who could play for him and only one second-rounder. Nearly any coach is going to have a problem with that handicap, but I don't think Ryan was going to be good no matter what. In any case, culture is for real. Ask Pete Carroll. Carroll sucked in his first two head coaching opportunities. He says when his career turned around is when he felt that he was just running around like a chicken with his head cut off and responding to what was going on around him. So he sat down and wrote a mission statement on how he wanted to run his Seattle program, something he'd never done before. And voila. Makes his assistant coaches write their own missions statements too. Culture matters, bigtime. I love that Bill Walsh story Lombardi tells in this. Lombardi's running around at 1:00 a.m. on draft night and Walsh says "What are you doing, what's the problem?" Lombardi says, "Well, the Falcons did this, the Falcons did that." And Walsh says, "Hey, Michael, look. Let me explain something real quick to you. We're only competing against eight teams in this league. When the Redskins do something, or the Giants do something, you let me know. But don't worry about those other teams we're not competing against. They might win once in a while. But they're rarely gonna win." Exactly. Plenty of teams are working their butts off on hamster wheels to nowhere. Only a few teams matter and we need to become one of those teams. Edited June 29, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) What the article fails to articulate is the meaning of "failed culture" and "successful culture". This is like making a claim but not backing it up. Everyone knows that these teams are bad, but there is no clear articulation of why they are bad. A "failed culture" is a cop out IMHO. The margin between wins and losses in the NFL is razor thin. Detail oriented coaches like Belliched have figured out the nitty gritty details and work on it. In the end, it is those minute details that changes course. The Falcons were up by 20 points in the 2nd half of a Super Bowl, but the team on the opposite sideline still believed in themselves and chipped away. There are too many things than "failed culture" that determine the success of a franchise. I have to disagree with this. You don't have to define your terms for them to mean something. You're right that it's not easy to define, but failed cultures exist. It's hard to say exactly how to destroy or save a culture, but that doesn't mean cultures don't have a huge impact on success or failure. Teams that get it right can find many ways to do it, but they do do it. In Bill Walsh's book he talks a ton about changing the culture, right from spelling out the clothes the players had to wear on road trips. And there was actually an assistant coach who didn't believe any of this meant squat and who then contacted ownership and complained that Walsh was spending too much time on details that meant nothing. But ownership was on board with Walsh, which is key. They told Walsh what the assistant had done and Walsh simply fired him and moved on with evidence management was behind him. Good things happened. Edited June 29, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Failed culture my butt! It's called hard work. Winning organizations in EVERY business simply out hustle, outwork and out prepare over those that don't! PS: Rex Ryan never outworked anyone his entire life. Yes the Patriots outworked everyone to draft Brady in the 6th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Very interesting article thanks for posting. It sure looks like McD is the right answer for a "successful culture". A real franchise QB is still needed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 funny how there always seems to be an All Pro QB with great coaches & successful cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 funny how there always seems to be an All Pro QB with great coaches & successful cultures. Yes, it's quite humorous.. I wish we could be 'funny'.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 It take more than hard work in most businesses. A good product, timing, a little luck also play into most successful businesses. The Raiders were a joke for 12 years after losing the SB - now they've been "working harder" the last 2 years? Yes actually they have become much more disciplined as an organization following the passing of Al Davis. Yes the Patriots outworked everyone to draft Brady in the 6th round. OK you keep right on thinking that and we'll compare life results. Tom Brady was NOT a super star coming out of Michigan...but he and his Coach work harder than their opponents week after week. There were/are plenty of guys with more raw talent and athletic gifts but look at how Brady plays, eats, exercises, etc. When he's on the field it's pure business ALL THE TIME. There's no joking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) If Fred Flintstone (Lombardi) were so smart on this subject, he would have done a much better job as an NFL executive. Edited June 29, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 If Fred Flintstone (Lombardi) were so smart on this subject, he would have a much better job as an NFL executive. I like Lombardi and he gives some good football insight at times. But man, his draft with Cleveland is an all time terrible one. And the Bills had a great culture with Jim Kelly. The Pats culture sucked when they didn't have Brady or Bledsoe. The Saints were awful franchise prior to Brees. No one took Seattle serious until they got Russell Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I like Lombardi and he gives some good football insight at times. But man, his draft with Cleveland is an all time terrible one. And the Bills had a great culture with Jim Kelly. The Pats culture sucked when they didn't have Brady or Bledsoe. The Saints were awful franchise prior to Brees. No one took Seattle serious until they got Russell Wilson. When you WIN everything is pushed under the carpet. Look at Pete in Seattle...He was struggling his first few years...QBs did not work...THen he gets a gift in Lynch via trade and Wilson in the draft in the 3rd round...and Suddenly they are World Champions...I am sure Pete did not change "His culture" suddenly. The same goes with Belichek...With Bledsoe he had a losing season and was starting 0-3 before the injury....Suddenly Brady comes off the bench and sparks them to victories.... The margin of error between franchises in the NFL is rather razor thin. You can flip to either side very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Yes actually they have become much more disciplined as an organization following the passing of Al Davis. OK you keep right on thinking that and we'll compare life results. Tom Brady was NOT a super star coming out of Michigan...but he and his Coach work harder than their opponents week after week. There were/are plenty of guys with more raw talent and athletic gifts but look at how Brady plays, eats, exercises, etc. When he's on the field it's pure business ALL THE TIME. There's no joking around. So it has very little to do with Carr - his son is just now making everyone work harder? There's no way you can possibly know Brady and Billy work harder than everyone they play - and that's only 2 people working harder even if that's true. Edited June 30, 2017 by Triple Threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 So it has very little to do with Carr - his son is just now making everyone work harder? There's no way you can possibly know Brady and Billy work harder than everyone they play - and that's only 2 people working harder even if that's true. OK we'll go with your theory that they're just REALLY REALLY lucky? Yeah right! By the way you can substitute 'work smarter' if the phrase 'work harder' bugs you that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Yes the Patriots outworked everyone to draft Brady in the 6th round. Great point but I think I know what he means. In the 2016 Championship game, Alabama won in large part due to an on sides kick when they had just tied the game and to be honest, were getting outplayed at the time. They recovered the kick, scored a TD a few plays later and won the game. This might have been the best coaching call I have ever seen. After the game, they asked Saban why he made this call. NOBODY expected it. He said that he had watched film of every single time Clemson had received a kickoff that season. Then he noted that they weren't doing anything different in the championship game and he knew that he had this play any time he wanted it. This play took momentum away from Clemson no doubt and may have even discouraged them. The above is an example of out working and out thinking your opponents. I think of this play and laugh when people say that Saban wins only because of his recruits. That plays a big part, but he works harder and is smarter than other coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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