Should we develop an offense similar to the K-Gun?

[K-9]

 

Parcells and Belichick devised the game plan that beat the BIlls

 

remember the Bills were floating around thinking this was a cakewalk after destroying the Raiders (and winning at the Meadowlands in December)

oh, it's not to the credit of the Giants coaching staff that the Bills were limited to 19 touches?

 

that's TOTAL GENIUS!!!!

Belichick devised the running game that allowed the Giants to hold the ball for 41 minutes? Who knew? That was the ONLY reason the Giants won that game.

 

That game and his role in it has been mythologized to the point of nausea. Just another example of history not being about what happened, but about the telling of what happened.

[row_33]

Bills should have beaten the Giants easily.

Belichick devised the running game that allowed the Giants to hold the ball for 41 minutes? Who knew? That was the ONLY reason the Giants won that game.

 

That game and his role in it has been mythologized to the point of nausea. Just another example of history not being about what happened, but about the telling of what happened.

 

They won.

 

"Th-Th-The, Th-Th-The, Th-Th... That's all, folks!"

[K-9]

Bills should have beaten the Giants easily.

 

They won.

 

"Th-Th-The, Th-Th-The, Th-Th... That's all, folks!"

Sure, that's all. If you're into superficial analysis and have no interest in looking deeper.

[SoCal Deek]

Given Tyrod under center they need an offense that presents open receivers to his line of sight. TT has not shown a trust to throw into tight coverage or to a 'spot'.

 

I'm afraid he'd end up tucking and running more often than not in a K Gun style attack.

[row_33]

Sure, that's all. If you're into superficial analysis and have no interest in looking deeper.

 

are you gonna cry again if I hurt your feelings, like last week?

[K-9]

 

are you gonna cry again if I hurt your feelings, like last week?

Now that's funny.

 

As for Superbowl XV, a little closer analysis bears out everything I've indicated about that game. But I understand the extra time and insight that requires may not be for everyone.

 

Belichick is the greatest defensive mind this league has ever seen imo; perhaps the greatest HC ever given his ability to tailor game plans to specific matchups. But SB XV is simply not one of his masterpieces and he is lucky the Bills self-destructed on defense and Kelly refused to get Thurman involved from the start. His defense got its ass handed to it for the short time it was on the field.

[JohnC]

Now that's funny.

 

As for Superbowl XV, a little closer analysis bears out everything I've indicated about that game. But I understand the extra time and insight that requires may not be for everyone.

 

Belichick is the greatest defensive mind this league has ever seen imo; perhaps the greatest HC ever given his ability to tailor game plans to specific matchups. But SB XV is simply not one of his masterpieces and he is lucky the Bills self-destructed on defense and Kelly refused to get Thurman involved from the start. His defense got its ass handed to it for the short time it was on the field.

I agree with you that the Giants controlling the clock through the run game was a key factor in that loss. But as you noted Kelly forced throws into an eight man pass defense instead of using Thurman and Davis in the running game when the Giants were using a two and three man line. If Kelly would have been more patient and taken what was given they could have won the game. I never understood why the coaching staff under Marchiboda (sic) didn't intervene and force the qb to adjust his play calling? The Giant coaches had the better strategy and our coaches/qb didn't adjust. This was a SB that we should have won.

[SoTier]

based on what? does McD have a degree in game management that we don't know about? last i checked he was a rookie coach

 

Last year under Rex clock management, along with the defense, sucked. It was almost reminiscent of the clock mismanagement under Jauron. Therefore, even barely competent clock management this year will be a noticeable improvement.

[KDIGGZ]

 

Last year under Rex clock management, along with the defense, sucked. It was almost reminiscent of the clock mismanagement under Jauron. Therefore, even barely competent clock management this year will be a noticeable improvement.

i would like to think McD will be better but we have no idea yet. we can't say one way or another. once the bullets start flying and the pressure is on, who knows what will happen

[SoTier]

Buffalo's O needs to put more of an emphasis on giving our QB better pass protection in my humble opinion.

 

No huddle is something you do with an O unit that has spent enough time together to gel at a regular pace before attempting to up the tempo.(IMO)

 

Tired players are also more vulnerable to injury IMO.

 

Agree with all these points. Another problem with running a no huddle -- and a major one IMO -- is that it lends itself to shortened TOP which puts your defense on the field longer so that they tire out, too.

 

Moreover, the NFL isn't the same league in 2017 as it was a quarter of a century ago just as the world isn't the same either.

[Figster]

 

Agree with all these points. Another problem with running a no huddle -- and a major one IMO -- is that it lends itself to shortened TOP which puts your defense on the field longer so that they tire out, too.

 

Moreover, the NFL isn't the same league in 2017 as it was a quarter of a century ago just as the world isn't the same either.

Good point,

 

and when you play QB's like Tom Brady twice a season I think its safe to say keeping him off the football field as much as possible helps.

 

tired D against the likes of Brady is a recipe for failure...

[Ennjay]

A no-huddle doesn't have to be a hurry-up. A QB can stand at the line and use it to cut off defensive sub's with the threat of a snap, but he can still run off a lot of clock and keep the O (relatively) fresh.

 

What bothers me more for the current Bills is that the K-Gun worked so well because everyone knew their assignments and executed them so well. Maybe it was a byproduct of the simplified game plans -- a limited number of plays to start with. Plus quality players executing at so many positions, not just the HOFers. But I'm not ready to expect the current O knows their assignments as well. The more deliberate calls made in a huddle make more sense to me than the shorthand signals called at the line.

[Bookie Man]

K Gun named after Keith McKeller. I suppose it now would be called the Clay Gun.

[BuffAlone]

That'd be the "Clay Gun" right? Probably not the best choice with a persistent knee issue. Not when you got a good o-line & Shady McCoy.

[Peace Frog]

The offense they should run, IMO, is one designed around your best players, period. Sammy, Shady, Clay, DiMarco, and Zay Jones. I think those guys stay on the field using the same alignment every snap, and every play called is a play action pass. The defense wouldn't know if it's run or pass because you're doing the same thing every single snap. Taylor fakes the handoff to DiMarco or Shady and either throws it to one of those five guys or runs it himself. If you were a defender and the offense lined up the same guys the same way every time and every play was play action, what would you do?

[Capco]

The offense they should run, IMO, is one designed around your best players, period. Sammy, Shady, Clay, DiMarco, and Zay Jones. I think those guys stay on the field using the same alignment every snap, and every play called is a play action pass. The defense wouldn't know if it's run or pass because you're doing the same thing every single snap. Taylor fakes the handoff to DiMarco or Shady and either throws it to one of those five guys or runs it himself. If you were a defender and the offense lined up the same guys the same way every time and every play was play action, what would you do?

 

I'd dial up an inside zone blitz.

[Peace Frog]

 

I'd dial up an inside zone blitz.

And Taylor takes off running for the 1st down.

[K-9]

K Gun named after Keith McKeller. I suppose it now would be called the Clay Gun.

Outstanding!

[Homey D. Clown]

It's May and here we are speculating about the upcoming season. Here's my take:

 

We should run a limited huddle offense, similar to the K-Gun. It should be more run oriented, allowing our offensive line the opportunity to smash the opposition, eventually wearing them down. My reasons:

1. We have limited depth on all of our skill positions. This means that we should be running with the same players all 3 downs. This type of offense will keep the opposition from changing defenses, nullifying their advantage in depth.
2. With the advent of headset radios, plays can be called in from the sideline (except in NE), keeping the quarterback from having to make the calls along with everything he has to do.
3. We can quickly sub in the 40 yards between the 30 yard marks, especially at the wideout position. This may prompt the opposition to try, which will either pull them out of position or draw a too many men foul.
4. We have exceptional athletes that can handle the pace.
5. We were terrible at using the clock the last 2 years. This would sharpen our skills when it came to crunch time in the 4th quarter.

The argument about putting pressure on the defense is there, although I say that the 3 and outs last year did the same.

 

 

 

 

 

I think what you'll find them attempt is to build an offense that utilizes the team's current strengths at key positions where the strength of talent is the deepest. I don't think there is a magical system that will work. at the end of the day, what wins games is execution; the ability to do what your plays call for by outsmarting your opponent, or winning the battle at the line of scrimmage, and staying healthy. You can't win games in any league if you can't do that. When you think back to our Supebowl years, the team did those things, and stayed pretty healthy for several years. When they lost a player at a key position, which was very rare, the next guy up was extremely capable.

[row_33]

 

I think what you'll find them attempt is to build an offense that utilizes the team's current strengths at key positions where the strength of talent is the deepest. I don't think there is a magical system that will work. at the end of the day, what wins games is execution; the ability to do what your plays call for by outsmarting your opponent, or winning the battle at the line of scrimmage, and staying healthy. You can't win games in any league if you can't do that. When you think back to our Supebowl years, the team did those things, and stayed pretty healthy for several years. When they lost a player at a key position, which was very rare, the next guy up was extremely capable.

 

Great coaches take what they have available and mold it into the best team possible, the best of the best make adjustments every series. (see Belichick, B.)

 

And there's lots between this and a Rex Ryan dictating that his "system" is going to prevail no matter how the talent doesn't fit it.

 

So hopefully the staff is able to take real time potential and make the best of it, it's okay if they have a system and bend towards reality.

[Doc]

K Gun named after Keith McKeller. I suppose it now would be called the Clay Gun.

 

LOL!

 

And I think they do want to run the K(Clay)-Gun of sorts. They talked about wanting to be able to run multiple plays from one formation.

[boyst]

A no-huddle doesn't have to be a hurry-up. A QB can stand at the line and use it to cut off defensive sub's with the threat of a snap, but he can still run off a lot of clock and keep the O (relatively) fresh.

 

What bothers me more for the current Bills is that the K-Gun worked so well because everyone knew their assignments and executed them so well. Maybe it was a byproduct of the simplified game plans -- a limited number of plays to start with. Plus quality players executing at so many positions, not just the HOFers. But I'm not ready to expect the current O knows their assignments as well. The more deliberate calls made in a huddle make more sense to me than the shorthand signals called at the line.

if the offense subs the defense must be allowed to.

[K-9]

if the offense subs the defense must be allowed to.

That's why the offense keeps the same personnel on the field to run a hurry up once they get a match-up package they like. That's why Brady and the Pats*** are so hard to defend.

[row_33]

That's why the offense keeps the same personnel on the field to run a hurry up once they get a match-up package they like. That's why Brady and the Pats*** are so hard to defend.

Elite QBs get to the line with plenty of time on the clock to read the D, make easy adjustments, yell OMAHA a lot and bail out in .2 seconds after the snap for a gain.

 

Others.... well they walk slowly up the field looking for the play from the sidelines, which isn't quite ready until 15 seconds have dribbled away and you can't read the D and take whatever you can make up on the fly.

[xRUSHx]

Yes sir

Haha, play to Tyrods strengths? Just like they did in 2016, that sure helped get us to the playoffs didn't it.SMH

Can't run a K-gun with a QB not good enough to run even a basic stripped down simplified pop-gun.

Edited May 30, 2017 by xRUSHx

[K-9]

Elite QBs get to the line with plenty of time on the clock to read the D, make easy adjustments, yell OMAHA a lot and bail out in .2 seconds after the snap for a gain.

 

Others.... well they walk slowly up the field looking for the play from the sidelines, which isn't quite ready until 15 seconds have dribbled away and you can't read the D and take whatever you can make up on the fly.

Elite QBs are key. The majority of QBs in this league can't run a hurry-up offense because of the recognition issues you allude to. NE*** takes it to another level by waiting to catch you in an unfavorable sub package and then they go to a fast paced, no huddle scheme that takes advantage of the match ups.

 

But it all comes back to having a QB that can handle that.

[row_33]

Elite QBs are key. The majority of QBs in this league can't run a hurry-up offense because of the recognition issues you allude to. NE*** takes it to another level by waiting to catch you in an unfavorable sub package and then they go to a fast paced, no huddle scheme that takes advantage of the match ups.

 

But it all comes back to having a QB that can handle that.

 

a small review a month or two ago showed me about 1/3 of the teams have had a franchise QB for a half dozen years or so... it was more than I first thought.

 

so it's not that rare to have a good to elite QB at the helm.

 

Hopefully TT's weaknesses will be worked on to get him into the top 1/3 for 2017 and 2018.

[Luxy312]

In terms of the K-gun, the Bills don't have the QB to run that. It's easy to be realistic in making this assessment when we simply look at the 2-minute offenses that we've seen in the last two seasons. When I think about what the Bills had in the 90's, that's essentially what they ran almost the whole time they were on the field. It's just not this team. I like the enthusiasm of wanting to get back what we had almost 25 years ago, but realistic it is not.

[K-9]

 

a small review a month or two ago showed me about 1/3 of the teams have had a franchise QB for a half dozen years or so... it was more than I first thought.

 

so it's not that rare to have a good to elite QB at the helm.

 

Hopefully TT's weaknesses will be worked on to get him into the top 1/3 for 2017 and 2018.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the number of great QBs in this league. I count five, tops.

 

TT's weaknesses, as illustrated so far, don't lend themselves well to a fast-paced offense. He's been a disaster in 2-minute offenses for the most part. That said, the last time I saw him play, it was his best game from a command standpoint to date. And Dennison's offense seems to suit him well so I don't think it's impossible for him to get to a higher level.

[row_33]

We'll have to agree to disagree about the number of great QBs in this league. I count five, tops.

 

TT's weaknesses, as illustrated so far, don't lend themselves well to a fast-paced offense. He's been a disaster in 2-minute offenses for the most part. That said, the last time I saw him play, it was his best game from a command standpoint to date. And Dennison's offense seems to suit him well so I don't think it's impossible for him to get to a higher level.

 

I go with the view that Seattle was his Signature Game last year.

 

Hoping and wishing and praying and watching things get a heckova lot better real quick.

 

An OC who believes in calling a series of plays instead of standing there thinking...... and then coming up with something would be nice.

 

TT has to be able to handle this.

[K-9]

 

I go with the view that Seattle was his Signature Game last year.

 

Hoping and wishing and praying and watching things get a heckova lot better real quick.

 

An OC who believes in calling a series of plays instead of standing there thinking...... and then coming up with something would be nice.

 

TT has to be able to handle this.

Seattle was a great game for him, too. But in re-re-reviewing the All 22 of the Miami game, I think he was better vs. Miami than in Seattle especially from a command standpoint. He had Miami defenders moving around all day long. Something I hadn't seen much of to that point.

[row_33]

Yup, Miami was a very good game as well. Seattle had more exposure and an opponent I valued way more than the Fish...

[boyst]

That's why the offense keeps the same personnel on the field to run a hurry up once they get a match-up package they like. That's why Brady and the Pats*** are so hard to defend.

if we are specifically gearing up to face the patriots** we will lose 16 games.

 

Belichiq has athleticism and prowess with intelligence to make up for this. Not to mention as we have seen players getting "injured.". You send in your 2 down LB. He limps a little. Hold on, the 3rd down specialist can come in.

 

You can't outsmart or out cheat the patriots

[Capco]

And Taylor takes off running for the 1st down.

 

That wouldn't be a problem for any team with DEs/OLBs that can set the edge well and play containment. Pressure up the middle with outside containment is Taylor's kryptonite. By going PA every play, it's a lot harder to get that quick release since you have to fake it to the back every snap. Even if it's only for a second, that's still significant, and just buys more time for the inside rush to develop.

 

The only team I can even remotely see this idea working for is Dallas, since you'd need a mobile QB, an amazing offensive line, and big threats at WR, TE, and HB.