Worried About the Scout Vacancies- Big Hole!

[NoSaint]

It won't make it a good decision, no. They could still have gotten anyone that they can get now. The only difference is they could lose some guys (like Monos) that they might not have wanted to lose. It wasn't like getting rid of those guys opened up something else. There is ONLY downside to how they've done it.

We often agree on stuff like this, and no surprise we do here again. It's simply weighing the pros/cons of each path.

 

Keeping the guys was zero risk, but possible reward.

 

Dumping the guys was zero reward but possible risk.

 

Unless someone wants to make an argument that tips those scales somewhere I don't get how anyone can be more positive than "yea, it wasn't the best route but it might work out fine still." Similarly I don't think it's the end of the world, but it seems easy to call it the wrong choice regardless of outcome

[YoloinOhio]

It's common to fire the whole FO when the GM is changed, if the new GM is coming from the outside. The reason is that it's likely there will be whole different structure and way if doing things. Though it may seem like you could just keep some of the guys, it's actually easier to bring in guys who either already know your way or you can train your way right out of the gate.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/10/vic-caruccis-3-bills-thoughts-beane-hire-front-office-overhaul-isnt-finished/

2. House-cleanings must be thorough. It's part of the cold, hard reality of the NFL world.

 

Leaving some pieces in place from a previous regime or previous regimes tends to be a bad idea, because you're creating inevitable clashing of old and new ways of doing things. It's a breeding ground for resentment, with incumbents never completely letting go of their loyalties to those who either hired them or with whom they've became close over the years.

[The Wiz]

We often agree on stuff like this, and no surprise we do here again. It's simply weighing the pros/cons of each path.

 

Keeping the guys was zero risk, but possible reward.

 

Dumping the guys was zero reward but possible risk.

 

Unless someone wants to make an argument that tips those scales somewhere I don't get how anyone can be more positive than "yea, it wasn't the best route but it might work out fine still." Similarly I don't think it's the end of the world, but it seems easy to call it the wrong choice regardless of outcome

Can't say I disagree. Only thing I can think of is if Whaley tried to save his own ass by throwing the scouting department under the bus when it came to why the players they were getting weren't improving the team.

[NoSaint]

It's common to fire the whole FO when the GM is changed, if the new GM is coming from the outside. The reason is that it's likely there will be whole different structure and way if doing things. Though it may seem like you could just keep some of the guys, it's actually easier to bring in guys who either already know your way or you can train your way right out of the gate.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/10/vic-caruccis-3-bills-thoughts-beane-hire-front-office-overhaul-isnt-finished/

 

It's just interesting that terry left the choice on overdorf up to the new guy but not the scouts, no?

[YoloinOhio]

As far as hiring the new personnel, the most important thing right now is Director of College Scouting and Director of player personnel . if a personnel guy is under contract but offered a promotion, the teams can and will let them out of their contracts. It's bad business not to. I'm sure they will find a few guys who they know and are ready to move up. If the opportunity isn't available with their current team, the team will let them go.

 

College scouts are very easy to find. They don't need experience. Usually a player who won't have a shot in TE league or with a connection to them somehow. The Panthers have one out of the Scouting Academy. I think the Chargers gave at least one. Most teams only have about 4 or 5 area scouts. It's low paying, a ton of hours and travel and Beane and McD can tell them and teach them exactly what they want. They are scouting for the specific systems more than anything. Carucci talked about that as well:

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/10/vic-caruccis-3-bills-thoughts-beane-hire-front-office-overhaul-isnt-finished/

3. Beane's biggest immediate task is putting together a scouting staff.

 

This is a huge undertaking, but not necessarily as daunting as it might sound. The expectation is that Beane and McDermott will seek mostly young, hungry, up-and-comers who are open to being taught the McDermott-Beane way of identifying talent and the parameters for the types of players they want on their roster.

 

As has already been made clear through the Bills' free-agent signings and the draft, character will matter. A lot. So will intelligence and a team-first mentality.

 

It's much easier to teach younger scouts how to do things your way than to re-teach more experienced ones who often are set in their own ways or someone else's way.

Since Beane became official a couple names have emerged

 

@insidetheleague

2 names I'm hearing that could emerge as Dir of Player Personnel for #Bills: #Dolphins DPP Joe Schoen and #Panthers Pro Director Mark Koncz.

Edited May 13, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...pick and choose to interview those that were canned....there is some talent there....start with Monos.............

[The Wiz]

It's just interesting that terry left the choice on overdorf up to the new guy but not the scouts, no?

I see it as the new gm was probably going to overhaul the scouting department and overdorf was left in place in case the new gm want able to/ didn't want to manage the cap/ contacts.

[YoloinOhio]

It's just interesting that terry left the choice on overdorf up to the new guy but not the scouts, no?

they had to keep overdorf longer than the scouts because they had to have someone in place to do contracts until Beane was hired. He's going to be gone too imo, as part of of the clean out.

...pick and choose to interview those that were canned....there is some talent there....start with Monos.............

i don't think it's about whether they are good, OldTime. They are Whaley's guys, used to a certain way. They want everyone brand new. No one saying "well we do it this way here"... it's a new organization now, tbh Edited May 13, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Augie]

It's common to fire the whole FO when the GM is changed, if the new GM is coming from the outside. The reason is that it's likely there will be whole different structure and way if doing things. Though it may seem like you could just keep some of the guys, it's actually easier to bring in guys who either already know your way or you can train your way right out of the gate. http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/10/vic-caruccis-3-bills-thoughts-beane-hire-front-office-overhaul-isnt-finished/

I can see that point of view, and I can also see that's it can be unwise to throw the baby out with the bath water. We lost some talented guys. I hope they can do better with the next group, because that's all I can do.

[YoloinOhio]

I put this in another thread about the FO buildout but here's a link to FO movement since Jan. Not sure if TJ McCreight is on there yet, he's the Director of College Scouting for Indy. Colts just fired whole FO after the draft (besides new GM Ballard who got there pre-draft).

http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/front-office/2017/05/01/dan-hatmans-2017-nfl-scout-movement-tracker/

Edited May 13, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Relax,their is more pressing things in life to worry about. Their big boys.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

As far as hiring the new personnel, the most important thing right now is Director of College Scouting and Director of player personnel . if a personnel guy is under contract but offered a promotion, the teams can and will let them out of their contracts. It's bad business not to. I'm sure they will find a few guys who they know and are ready to move up. If the opportunity isn't available with their current team, the team will let them go.

 

College scouts are very easy to find. They don't need experience. Usually a player who won't have a shot in TE league or with a connection to them somehow. The Panthers have one out of the Scouting Academy. I think the Chargers gave at least one. Most teams only have about 4 or 5 area scouts. It's low paying, a ton of hours and travel and Beane and McD can tell them and teach them exactly what they want. They are scouting for the specific systems more than anything. Carucci talked about that as well:

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/10/vic-caruccis-3-bills-thoughts-beane-hire-front-office-overhaul-isnt-finished/

 

Since Beane became official a couple names have emerged

 

@insidetheleague

2 names I'm hearing that could emerge as Dir of Player Personnel for #Bills: #Dolphins DPP Joe Schoen and #Panthers Pro Director Mark Koncz.

One of your best posts! Thanks for the info and analysis!

 

I have felt all along that worrying about this and calling it a huge problem are overstated. Just another way for some to shout dysfunction.

 

The point about getting hungry, young scouts and training them as opposed to reprogramming the old dogs is the most important.

[YoloinOhio]

One of your best posts! Thanks for the info and analysis!

 

I have felt all along that worrying about this and calling it a huge problem are overstated. Just another way for some to shout dysfunction.

 

The point about getting hungry, young scouts and training them as opposed to reprogramming the old dogs is the most important.

its ok to worry the FO won't improve with the new structure but the process itself of rebuilding one isn't unique or worrisome Edited May 13, 2017 by YoloinOhio

[Virgil]

Madden 18 rating should leak soon. We can just check what our roster is going to be and sign those guys.

 

It's all good

[Kirby Jackson]

We often agree on stuff like this, and no surprise we do here again. It's simply weighing the pros/cons of each path.

 

Keeping the guys was zero risk, but possible reward.

 

Dumping the guys was zero reward but possible risk.

 

Unless someone wants to make an argument that tips those scales somewhere I don't get how anyone can be more positive than "yea, it wasn't the best route but it might work out fine still." Similarly I don't think it's the end of the world, but it seems easy to call it the wrong choice regardless of outcome

Yeah, I am harder on these decisions than most because it's incompetence. It probably won't matter but that doesn't mean that it's right (if that makes sense).

[mead107]

They have to start right here on TBD seeing how we have hundreds of experts.

[KDIGGZ]

I've been scouting YouTube for them for years. One of these days they will probably return my calls

[Nick the Greek]

As if the scouts were doing such a great job. 17 years and no playoffs? Of boy.. I'm really worried.

 

Like, we're gonna go from being good to sucking. We sucked with em, and we'll suck without em. Business as usual at One Bills Drive.

[NoSaint]

Yeah, I am harder on these decisions than most because it's incompetence. It probably won't matter but that doesn't mean that it's right (if that makes sense).

Totally makes sense. It's a spot where if someone takes such an easy decision for granted and misses the risk/reward equation -- you question whether on the big and complex decisions they are just blindfolded throwing darts.

 

The caveat I might throw in here is that we may have had our guy selected and making the choice already though.

[Bill_with_it]

It won't make it a good decision, no. They could still have gotten anyone that they can get now. The only difference is they could lose some guys (like Monos) that they might not have wanted to lose. It wasn't like getting rid of those guys opened up something else. There is ONLY downside to how they've done it.

You are making an assumption that they wanted Monos. If they wanted Monos he would still be a Bill.