jeffismagic Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 2:51 PM, oldmanfan said: You're giving him credit for Favre? Vick? Garcia? They last two were veterans and the first one you had Mariucci, Holmgren. Please. I am not giving him credit. Sports journalists and people who understand the NFL have given him credit. If you feel your opinion matters more, then so be it. Vick came out of prison and no one expected much for a guy out of the league. Reid had him looking better than he did BEFORE prison! The Vick stuff was incredible QB coaching.
4BillsintheBurgh Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 2:29 PM, BuffaloHokie13 said: All of them have had pretty poor QB play in recent history. I don't see why KC and Houston get puffed up on QB knowledge when their success has been founded on strong defense and special teams. It wasn't so long ago that KC went an entire season without a WR catching a TD. I'm not sure if acquiring Osweilier was better or worse than acquiring RG3. I thought we had decided as a fan base that the KC model was the best - build a team to make the playoffs then start dropping draft picks on possible franchise qb's because chances are you're not going to get a surefire franchise guy unless you get lucky with a high enough pick in a deep enough class. We have our alex smith and need to put together a team around him so the development of a franchise qb will be smooth. That way the pressure of winning is not on a developing qb's shoulders and hopefully that guy will be able to actually develop in the same system. Of course we need organizational stability to have that happen, so good luck to us.
oldmanfan Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 2:54 PM, jeffismagic said: I am not giving him credit. Sports journalists and people who understand the NFL have given him credit. If you feel your opinion matters more, then so be it. Vick came out of prison and no one expected much for a guy out of the league. Reid had him looking better than he did BEFORE prison! The Vick stuff was incredible QB coaching. I do not see him as some magical QB whisperer. And I have never seen a Texas Tecg spreadQB amount to anything.
jeffismagic Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) On 5/10/2017 at 2:56 PM, oldmanfan said: I do not see him as some magical QB whisperer. And I have never seen a Texas Tecg spreadQB amount to anything. Of course you don't. Most Bills fans argued with me that there was even such a thing. Elite QB play is not highly valued by the Bills team or many of its fans. Edited May 10, 2017 by jeffismagic
BillsFan2313 Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 In 18 years, Andy Reid has a total of 3 losing seasons, and there are some questioning his knowledge/grooming of QBs? Alrighty then. Carry on.
CookieG Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 2:23 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: You are severely under rating Reid. MCNabb was very raw and got booed at his draft. He made Kevin Kolb into that hot backup and traded him for a 2nd rounder. He made the dog Killer Vick have his best season and actually look like a real qb. Alex Smith has completely maxed out his talent under Reid. He is one of the best qb coaches in the NFL and it's not really a question. Agreed with all of that, esp. the Alex Smith part. He got more mileage out of Smith than many thought possible. But as to the Mahommes drafting decision, it wasn't just Andy Reid who wanted him. Actually, it was Chiefs' GM John Dorsey who fell in love with him first. Dorsey was the Packers Dir. of College Scouting when they picked Aaron Rodgers. He's kind of the favorite to succeed Ted Thompson (sp.) if he retires. If you listened to their draft press conferences, Dorsey was especially gushing. And arm strength was pretty far down on the list of his qualities. Reid just said something like, "yeah, he can sling it, but a lot of guys can sling it". They were raving more about his intelligence, esp. football intelligence, his energy, his accuracy and his ability to make something out of nothing. (THAT to me, is what he does best.) As to your statement related to "who do you trust?", it made me smile. The people known to have wanted him...Reid, Dorsey, Sean Payton, have all selected, or worked with HOF QB's, or future HOF QB;s. Reid was Favre's QB coach for a few years, Dorsey helped pick Rodgers, Payton had his career inseparably linked to Drew Brees. So yes, there is something to that line of thinking.
oldmanfan Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 2:59 PM, jeffismagic said: Of course you don't. Most Bills fans argued with me that there was even such a thing. Elite QB play is not highly valued by the Bills team or many of its fans. . Show me an elite QB he's had. Or that O'Brien has had. They had Favre and Brady and each had other coaches and guys that are great because they are innately great. I'd take Reid as a HC. But at least as much for the defenses he's had compared to his prowess in QB development. On 5/10/2017 at 3:02 PM, CookieG said: Agreed with all of that, esp. the Alex Smith part. He got more mileage out of Smith than many thought possible. But as to the Mahommes drafting decision, it wasn't just Andy Reid who wanted him. Actually, it was Chiefs' GM John Dorsey who fell in love with him first. Dorsey was the Packers Dir. of College Scouting when they picked Aaron Rodgers. He's kind of the favorite to succeed Ted Thompson (sp.) if he retires. If you listened to their draft press conferences, Dorsey was especially gushing. And arm strength was pretty far down on the list of his qualities. Reid just said something like, "yeah, he can sling it, but a lot of guys can sling it". They were raving more about his intelligence, esp. football intelligence, his energy, his accuracy and his ability to make something out of nothing. (THAT to me, is what he does best.) As to your statement related to "who do you trust?", it made me smile. The people known to have wanted him...Reid, Dorsey, Sean Payton, have all selected, or worked with HOF QB's, or future HOF QB;s. Reid was Favre's QB coach for a few years, Dorsey helped pick Rodgers, Payton had his career inseparably linked to Drew Brees. So yes, there is something to that line of thinking. And we'll see if they're right. But the history on guys out of Texas Tech or similar spread one read offenses isn't encouraging.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 2:29 PM, BuffaloHokie13 said: All of them have had pretty poor QB play in recent history. I don't see why KC and Houston get puffed up on QB knowledge when their success has been founded on strong defense and special teams. It wasn't so long ago that KC went an entire season without a WR catching a TD. I'm not sure if acquiring Osweilier was better or worse than acquiring RG3. That's because of AlexSmith, who is very similar to Tyrod. Smith has had the best seasons of his career under Reid. The fact that he makes the playoffs ever year with such a limited qb is a testament to what Reid can do. It's always blame the coach. But you can only do so much when you have such limited qbs.
ChanOverChin Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 What will matter is who made out better in the trade with KC. KC got QB P. Mahomes. The Bills got CB Tre White, a R3, and R1 in 2018. The R3 was traded along with other picks to help the Bills obtain OT D. Dawkins. Now we need to see what the R1 in 2018 turns into.
HappyDays Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 2:23 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: I would be very happy with this. But again, why does the most pro ready qb slip to the 5th without any serious issues? Is the rest of the league just stupid? Ask Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson, and Trevor Siemian the same question.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 3:13 PM, ChanOverChin said: What will matter is who made out better in the trade with KC. KC got QB P. Mahomes. The Bills got CB Tre White, a R3, and R1 in 2018. The R3 was traded along with other picks to help the Bills obtain OT D. Dawkins WR Zay Jones. Now we need to see what the R1 in 2018 turns into. For the record.
H2o Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 12:29 PM, bisonbrigade said: Drafting a quarterback is really a crap shoot. Just because a team trades up to get you, doesn't mean you will pan out. Who is a better quarterback Jared Goff or Dak Prescott? Wouldn't it be funny if Mahomes is a bust and Peterman is the next Zak Prerscott. LOL The Bills are due to get some luck. You have officially brought on the wrath of Jeffismagic. May God have mercy on your soul
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 3:12 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: That's because of AlexSmith, who is very similar to Tyrod. Smith has had the best seasons of his career under Reid. The fact that he makes the playoffs ever year with such a limited qb is a testament to what Reid can do. It's always blame the coach. But you can only do so much when you have such limited qbs. That's my point though. Why are KC and Buffalo in separate groups regarding QB evaluation when they've basically had the same thing for the past 2 years? I'm not saying I expect Mahomes/Watson to be awful, in fact Watson could see early success due to the players around him, but I don't see why KC or Houston are getting lauded as fantastic gauges for QB evaluation when neither has had elite QB play.
CookieG Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 3:05 PM, oldmanfan said: . Show me an elite QB he's had. Or that O'Brien has had. They had Favre and Brady and each had other coaches and guys that are great because they are innately great. I'd take Reid as a HC. But at least as much for the defenses he's had compared to his prowess in QB development. And we'll see if they're right. But the history on guys out of Texas Tech or similar spread one read offenses isn't encouraging. Being an Air Raid QB probably hurt him more than it helped him in the evaluation process. I think he had to overcome that stigma before he was taken seriously. I'll be honest, I wanted him at 10, knowing fully well he could fail. And I have the feeling that next year, despite all of this "Class of '18" talk...we end up using our 2 firsts on a S and a LB, under the tried and failed "draft to fit the scheme" routine that hasn't worked in 17 years.
yungmack Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 What if NP became the greatest QB of all time? Huh? Reminds me of the two Irish guys walking past a pub. Hey, it could happen.
jeffismagic Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 3:21 PM, CookieG said: Being an Air Raid QB probably hurt him more than it helped him in the evaluation process. I think he had to overcome that stigma before he was taken seriously. I'll be honest, I wanted him at 10, knowing fully well he could fail. And I have the feeling that next year, despite all of this "Class of '18" talk...we end up using our 2 firsts on a S and a LB, under the tried and failed "draft to fit the scheme" routine that hasn't worked in 17 years. The sad thing is people will defend that too.
Antonio Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 How says that if we didn´t trade down we would have drafted Mahomes? We could easily drafted Lattimore therefor we would have passed on Mahomes as well and without the extra 1st rounder for next year. I think it was a good trade in that point in time if OBD didn´t have a QB rated as franchise QB. Theres no need to force your hand, specially with QBs.
The Wiz Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 12:32 PM, B-Man said: What if Peterman is better than Mahomes?? Well.........................that would be a good thing. But then no one would have anything to complain about.... oh wait. Forgot where I was.
Real McClappy Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 1:29 PM, Chuck Wagon said: Peterman is semi-irrelevant to the Mahomes trade. The trade boils down to 1) if Mahomes is a franchise QB and 2) we don't find a QB soon, it's an awful deal. If Mahomes busts out or we find a QB, it's a win for us. One could argue White is irrelevant as well, we had the 10th pick in the draft, it's not fair to look at White as "the 10th pick", but White isn't the additional piece we gained out of the deal. Peterman is irreverent as you stated along with White. If either Mahomes or Watson "busts out" as a true franchise QB the Bills missed 100%, AGAIN. That will be complete hindsight in 2 or 3 years though I guess. Right around the same time frame McD is the Bills savior or is fired because of the same fate as numerous coaching staffs. My hindsight to the Bills, I Miss Doug Marrone even though I did not like the guy. Dude was a franchise QB away from something special with this club.
oldmanfan Posted May 10, 2017 Posted May 10, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 3:24 PM, jeffismagic said: The sad thing is people will defend that too. If say theoretically the S and LB become perennial All Pros and HOFers I'd defend it all day long. On 5/10/2017 at 3:31 PM, Real McCoy said: Peterman is irreverent as you stated along with White. If either Mahomes or Watson "busts out" as a true franchise QB the Bills missed 100%, AGAIN. That will be complete hindsight in 2 or 3 years though I guess. Right around the same time frame McD is the Bills savior or is fired because of the same fate as numerous coaching staffs. My hindsight to the Bills, I Miss Doug Marrone even though I did not like the guy. Dude was a franchise QB away from something special with this club. How do you respond to the data indicating many more first round Qbs fail than succeed? If they had a great grade on Mahomes they should have taken him. If not, they shouldn't have.
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