Boatdrinks Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 His option has a guarantee in the event of injury, which I believe is a factor in the Bills not exercising it. The guy has been hurt for 3 years running. While he didn't miss time in his first year, he did have some issues on the field. All contracts become guaranteed if the player is on the opening day roster. So how big a factor is it? If there is a serious issue with the injury right now, the risk might be too great. If it's healed or healing well then it should be picked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) That's what I figured. Thanks.yep that's imo the entire reason. If they were hedging just on performance/development as an NFL WR than the wise move is to pick it up and see what happens in the 4th year since you can always pull it back prior to March of 2018, when it becomes fully guaranteed for the 5th year. But if you are hedging because of health concerns, it becomes a much bigger issue because it's guaranteed for injury only starting today. If he's not healthy today, it's taking 12+ million of your cap and potentially putting it on IR just to say you get an extra year of control. Not picking it up is actually better for the player (he will make more if tagged in the 5th year and if he plays well will see a huge deal sooner either here or elsewhere ) and the team (they get to see if he is healthy and can remain healthy before committing. Imo it has almost nothing to do with how good of a player they think he is and that is why it was such a deliberative decision. The whole situation completely sucks because it appears the foot isn't where it needs to be yet and they don't have a lot of confidence he's going to be able to get back to 100% and/or sustain that. Edited May 2, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) His option has a guarantee in the event of injury, which I believe is a factor in the Bills not exercising it. The guy has been hurt for 3 years running. While he didn't miss time in his first year, he did have some issues on the field. I don't think Sammy has been 100% in a single game in his career. He was hurt in preseason his rookie year, on the first play IIRC, on a cheap shot from Shazier. I don't think he is soft, and he's played hurt a ton and played well, he's just had a string of injuries and bad luck. There was nothing in his college career at all that would lead anyone to believe he was soft or injury prone. Edited May 2, 2017 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 yep that's imo the entire reason. If they were hedging just on performance/development as an NFL WR than the wise move is to pick it up and see what happens in the 4th year since you can always pull it back prior to March of 2018, when it becomes fully guaranteed for the 5th year. But if you are hedging because of health concerns, it becomes a much bigger issue because it's guaranteed for injury only starting today. If he's not healthy today, it's taking 12+ million of your cap and potentially putting it on IR just to say you get an extra year of control. Not picking it up is actually better for the player (he will make more if tagged in the 5th year and if he plays well will see a huge deal sooner either here or elsewhere ) and the team (they get to see if he is healthy and can remain healthy before committing. Imo it has almost nothing to do with how good of a player they think he is and that is why it was such a deliberative decision. Well said. Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyToughII Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 I don't think Sammy has been 100% in a single game in his career. He was hurt in preseason his rookie year, on the first play IIRC, on a cheap shot from Shazier. I don't think he is soft, and he's played hurt a ton and played well, he's just had a string of injuries and bad luck. There was nothing in his college career at all that would lead anyone to believe he was soft or injury prone. True, but in the NFL he has been injury prone. If he can't do a full 16 game season he won't be getting big money here or anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 When I think of the label "injury prone but super talented," this is the guy that comes most immediately to mind. Look at his career: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TaylFr00.htm Watkins is very young and supremely talented. It's more likely than not that he'll have some good luck on the health front. He's due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 the suspense is killing me.... either way we are doomed.....(laffin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Another guy who was "injury prone" (far more than Watkins) early in his career: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitJi00.htm . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) True, but in the NFL he has been injury prone. If he can't do a full 16 game season he won't be getting big money here or anywhere else. That's true also. Or at least he's had a few injuries and bad luck. We don't know what the Bills know about that injury. But if it's ok , they would be wise to hedge their bets. Let's say it's healed, Sammy has a productive and healthy season. Now you are screwed. He won't want to stay, and the tag does nothing if the guy doesn't want to play here. He won't sign it. The option gives you another year to see if he's worth a long term investment in 2019. Accelerate all of that to next spring if you don't pick it up. The team will basically be saying " we don't think you will be healthy or productive and we will have all the leverage next offseason ". It only makes sense to not pick it up if that injury is still a real problem. Otherwise you will have a disgruntled player looking to go elsewhere. Edited May 2, 2017 by Boatdrinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Meanwhile the 280 pound Kelvin Benjamin...... @AdamSchefter Panthers exercised fifth-year option for WR Kelvin Benjamin, per source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Meanwhile the 280 pound Kelvin Benjamin...... @AdamSchefter Panthers exercised fifth-year option for WR Kelvin Benjamin, per source. A guy who tore his ACL! That's true also. Or at least he's had a few injuries and bad luck. We don't know what the Bills know about that injury. But if it's ok , they would be wise to hedge their bets. Let's say it's healed, Sammy has a productive and healthy season. Now you are screwed. He won't want to stay, and the tag does nothing if the guy doesn't want to play here. He won't sign it. The option gives you another year to see if he's worth a long term investment in 2019. Accelerate all of that to next spring if you don't pick it up. The team will basically be saying " we don't think you will be healthy or productive and we will have all the leverage next offseason ". It only makes sense to not pick it up if that injury is still a real problem. Otherwise you will have a disgruntled player looking to go elsewhere. yup. He can sit out the first six games, come back and protect himself in the remaining ten, and in the process burn all bridges with the team. He'll hit the market at age 25 and presumably coming off a big 2017 season (assuming he is healthy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 A guy who tore his ACL! yup. He can sit out the first six games, come back and protect himself in the remaining ten, and in the process burn all bridges with the team. He'll hit the market at age 25 and presumably coming off a big 2017 season (assuming he is healthy). In fairness.......an ACL is a pretty straight forward fix. The Sammy-like foot issues in Kevin Durant and Julio Jones SEEM to be resolved.......after multiple surgeries EACH.......but there is a lot more mystery and more concern with that injury, IMO. I think the concerns with Sammy go beyond that. The implication is that he's not very coachable with regard to his health. You mentioned Fred Taylor......his injury problems were due to knuckleheadedness........he didn't realize it........but a sports psychologist that was working with his agent got Taylor to take a hard look at what the "durable" veteran players were doing and told Taylor to just do the same........and wuddya' know......he got durable. That included being in early to prepare for his day and doing cold tub work. When I heard Rex addressing Sammy's injury situation last winter it was clear to read between the lines that they think that he puts too much of a pounding on his body in the offseason. He's dumb as a box of rocks.......we already know that.......then add immature, stubborn and entitled........in part because he's had no role model in that WR room........and that is the finished product the Bills have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 @AlbertBreer So that makes 23 of the 32 players from the 2014 class having their 5th-year options exercised. For context, 17 guys from the '13 class did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) In fairness.......an ACL is a pretty straight forward fix. The Sammy-like foot issues in Kevin Durant and Julio Jones SEEM to be resolved.......after multiple surgeries EACH.......but there is a lot more mystery and more concern with that injury, IMO. I think the concerns with Sammy go beyond that. The implication is that he's not very coachable with regard to his health. You mentioned Fred Taylor......his injury problems were due to knuckleheadedness........he didn't realize it........but a sports psychologist that was working with his agent got Taylor to take a hard look at what the "durable" veteran players were doing and told Taylor to just do the same........and wuddya' know......he got durable. That included being in early to prepare for his day and doing cold tub work. When I heard Rex addressing Sammy's injury situation last winter it was clear to read between the lines that they think that he puts too much of a pounding on his body in the offseason. He's dumb as a box of rocks.......we already know that.......then add immature, stubborn and entitled........in part because he's had no role model in that WR room........and that is the finished product the Bills have now. Good take; I agree. That said, history on his side w/regard to his injury (i.e., he probably should overcome it) and he is young. If he has a big year, though, expect him to try and get out. Many don't like to hear this, but with star players the team doesn't hold all of the cards. Players can force their way out if they're good enough and angry enough. Re Rex, I suspect that there's a little bit of CYA given that the staff pushed him to play when he wasn't ready. He shouldn't have been playing early in the season; that's clear now. Edited May 2, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 @si_nfl SI NFL Retweeted Albert Breer Complete list of the decisions so far: http://on.si.com/2pt1QNM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 @si_nfl SI NFL Retweeted Albert Breer Complete list of the decisions so far: http://on.si.com/2pt1QNM This article shows the deadline is actually 5/3, not today. That could be wrong but thought it was worth noting. Personally, I'd pick up the option. He's shown that he has the talent to be a really good player so I'd take the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KellyToughII Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 This article shows the deadline is actually 5/3, not today. That could be wrong but thought it was worth noting. Personally, I'd pick up the option. He's shown that he has the talent to be a really good player so I'd take the risk. Nope, not with a contract at 13 million guaranteed against injury. If he was healthy, he would have had the deal done by now. Make him EARN The next contract. Stay on the field and produce for a full season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Good take; I agree. That said, history on his side w/regard to his injury (i.e., he probably should overcome it) and he is young. If he has a big year, though, expect him to try and get out. Many don't like to hear this, but with star players the team doesn't hold all of the cards. Players can force their way out if they're good enough and angry enough. Re Rex, I suspect that there's a little bit of CYA given that the staff pushed him to play when he wasn't ready. He shouldn't have been playing early in the season; that's clear now. Yeah they can't really say much after that....... but this was Rex talking about the initial injury soon after it happened. Watkins is an action figure on the hoof.......the guy works out hard........but working hard and working smart are, of course, not the same thing. He wouldn't be the first player to tear himself up physically by making dumb decisions to overwork his body. I think we are seeing some of this with the Alabama players coming out........they are entering the league with NFL wear and tear from overwork in the weight room. There is much to be said for putting in active recovery time........like the cold tub in Taylor's case....and incorporating low impact training.....which I think is Sammy's issue. It's the boring part.....like stretching.....that people assume that NFL players properly do but often don't......,as proven during certain Bills coaching regimes where specific injuries like hamstrings or groin injuries are rampant and recurring. I think one thing fans forget is that these are young men living in the moment. To a fan, that player missing a couple games is cataclysmic........to a good, established player that is in no danger of losing his job....... it can be no different than missing a day of work for the average Joe.......if it doesn't affect the future paycheck it often doesn't matter that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 All contracts become guaranteed if the player is on the opening day roster. So how big a factor is it? If there is a serious issue with the injury right now, the risk might be too great. If it's healed or healing well then it should be picked up.Not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 (edited) This article shows the deadline is actually 5/3, not today. That could be wrong but thought it was worth noting. Personally, I'd pick up the option. He's shown that he has the talent to be a really good player so I'd take the risk. Sal confirmed it is 4pm today but I've seen both dates out there too Edited May 2, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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