BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 no we'd care. it would just sting a little less. the NE patriots are championship team with a solid FO, and game plan. when they grab talent from your team (much like they did Hogan), and go on to win the superbowl...it really makes you question the organization, and their ability to evaluate and hold onto talent. I remember people making the same argument with Hogan, as they are with MG. "he's a number 2", "he's this, he's that"....well know he has a ring, and was very instrumental in the patriots obtaining that ring. I have a feeling Gilmore and MG are much appreciative for the Bills' lack of interest. Ted Washington Antowain Smith Sammy Morris Alan Branch Chris Hogan Stephon Gilmore Mike Gillislee did I miss any? Worst one was Big Ted........Donahoe cutting him unnecessarily because he wouldn't alter his contract for the second year in a row was a critical turning point for the Bills.......he WAS their run defense......which was the strength of the team and that 3-4 D was their identity and without him Big Pat and the Greggo 4-3 just couldn't hold up against the run. Then after the run defense went to complete hell he flirted with Sam Adams for TWO YEARS before signing him and the run D got much better in general......but by then a lot of damage was done. They haven't had a mentally tough team since they axed Big Ted. Ted was a beast on those back-to-back champion Patriots teams.......and Jauron's one winning team in Chicago, for that matter. Even losing Branch to them stung. He f*cked up with the DWI but he was a long rangy beast of a DL and he was missed late in that year when Dareus got hurt and they lost the Raiders game for lack of depth at DT. It just seems like losing these guys does a lot more damage than it should......and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Bills were looking at a RB in round 1 next year while MG was happily going into year 2 as the successful lead rotation back for the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Not true.We had a long snapper that was money for years. And he became a weakness. 17 years of chickens falling from the sky. should trade Watkins to Patriots, that way he can make Probowls instead of IR. We can ask for a 5th rounder. So you're saying he is only getting injured b.c of the uniform? The stupidity is endless with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rant_and_go Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 The run game was good because other teams let them. No one cares if the Bills run for 150 and a TD when the opposing QB can put up 300 and 3 TDs.I betcha the Polish cavalry had some magnificent horses. Too bad they had to fight tanks and airplanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 The run game was good because other teams let them. No one cares if the Bills run for 150 and a TD when the opposing QB can put up 300 and 3 TDs. I betcha the Polish cavalry had some magnificent horses. Too bad they had to fight tanks and airplanes. So they let the Bills be one of the league's highest scoring teams because they didn't mind as long as it weren't done in the air? I think you are a little confused about NFL football. Teams are certainly more vulnerable to the run now because they need to be more athletic defensively(read:smaller) to defend against the pass friendly rules.........but they aren't exactly CONCEDING the run.......they just can't stop a good running game because their roster is built to stop the pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) Ted Washington Antowain Smith Sammy Morris Alan Branch Chris Hogan Stephon Gilmore Mike Gillislee did I miss any? Worst one was Big Ted........Donahoe cutting him unnecessarily because he wouldn't alter his contract for the second year in a row was a critical turning point for the Bills.......he WAS their run defense......which was the strength of the team and that 3-4 D was their identity and without him Big Pat and the Greggo 4-3 just couldn't hold up against the run. Then after the run defense went to complete hell he flirted with Sam Adams for TWO YEARS before signing him and the run D got much better in general......but by then a lot of damage was done. They haven't had a mentally tough team since they axed Big Ted. Ted was a beast on those back-to-back champion Patriots teams.......and Jauron's one winning team in Chicago, for that matter. Even losing Branch to them stung. He f*cked up with the DWI but he was a long rangy beast of a DL and he was missed late in that year when Dareus got hurt and they lost the Raiders game for lack of depth at DT. It just seems like losing these guys does a lot more damage than it should......and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Bills were looking at a RB in round 1 next year while MG was happily going into year 2 as the successful lead rotation back for the Pats. Branch has been shockingly good for the Pats. I can easily see that as one of those cases in which Belichick looked at the basic situation -- a talented guy in a losing culture acting irresponsibly -- and saying to himself, "if he's in a different situation he's likely to act a lot differently." And the Bills were glad to send him packing. Re: big Ted - the Bears went from 20th in points allowed in 2000 to 1st in points allowed in 2001, the year he joined the team. They finished second in fewest rushing yards and fewest rushing TDs allowed and 4th overall in lowest yards per attempt that season. Buy you know Greggo -- no fat guys! In 2003, Ted's one and only year with the Pats, they finished 1st in points allowed, 7th in yards allowed, and were dominant in practically every category. In 2002, the Pats were 17th in points allowed and 23rd in yards allowed. Don't get me started on Antowain. He wasn't great, but he had not one but two strong Super Bowl performances. Edited April 19, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Branch has been shockingly good for the Pats. I can easily see that as one of those cases in which Belichick looked at the basic situation -- a talented guy in a losing culture acting irresponsibly -- and saying to himself, "if he's in a different situation he's likely to act a lot differently." And the Bills were glad to send him packing. Re: big Ted - the Bears went from 20th in points allowed in 2000 to 1st in points allowed in 2001, the year he joined the team. Washington was the Bills best player from 1997 until he was cut. His 1997 season was one of the greatest defensive seasons by a Bill ever. Seeing a guy pushing 400 pounds blowing people up sideline to sideline was amazing. He never played like that again and STILL was the most impactful player on a whole lotta' teams for the next 6-7 years. Worthy of HOF in my mind. I was a huge Branch fan......I knew what he brought to the table........people wanted to cut him when he loafed thru his first preseason with the Bills and then he was one of their best players during the year. Guy had #1 overall type pick talent when he came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Washington was the Bills best player from 1997 until he was cut. His 1997 season was one of the greatest defensive seasons by a Bill ever. Seeing a guy pushing 400 pounds blowing people up sideline to sideline was amazing. He never played like that again and STILL was the most impactful player on a whole lotta' teams for the next 6-7 years. Worthy of HOF in my mind. I was a huge Branch fan......I knew what he brought to the table........people wanted to cut him when he loafed thru his first preseason with the Bills and then he was one of their best players during the year. Guy had #1 overall type pick talent when he came out. I added more info above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) Amazing how many fans go into panic mode almost automatically whenever anything happens with this team nowadays. Losing TD Mike is not great, but I don't think he is worth that type of money either. Who knows, maybe we will get Blount on the cheap, or maybe we will find a diamond in the rough later I the draft. I have heard this draft is deep in quality backs. Lighten up people. All this negativity is not good surrounding our team. Have some faith for once. Did you ever think that maybe a part of the reason this team is where it is, might be due Tom the fact that it's fans are completely unstable and are constantly planting seeds of doubt, fear, and anger towards the team they are supposedly supporting?? This phenomenon in the physics world is actually quantifiable people. Nothing positive comes from anything negative. As Sheldon says..."let's do the math". It is real! Please stop being so negative. You are all hurting this teams chances of success by having the attitude I see here everyday. So many fans with so much negativity, and you think that all of that negative energy doesn't effect the team,...wrong! It does. I for one am going to be as positive as I can! You should all try the same. A lot of positivity can change the atmosphere around this team and the energy as well. Ok, I am done now:) Let's go Bills! Edited April 19, 2017 by ajmac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 I added more info above. Yeah they've generally gotten great results from picking up ex-Bills........Scott Chandler was probably the worst of the bunch of former Bills starters they got and even he wasn't bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) Yeah they've generally gotten great results from picking up ex-Bills........Scott Chandler was probably the worst of the bunch of former Bills starters they got and even he wasn't bad. I honestly believe now that they treat their games against the Bills not as competitive matches but rather as scouting expos. It's kinda like a super-Senior Bowl for them. Chandler was their EJ -- he had a great game against the Pats in 2014 (like EJ in the Senior Bowl), but that one game was deceiving. Edited April 19, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 I dont know how ted washington would do in today's NFL.....but I will say I was his biggest fan when he was with this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 If we allow the Pats to walk with our running back we continue the pattern of reducing strong points of our team which stops us from working on weaknesses successfully building a team. Consider 2 years ago when people on this web site would have considered our Receivers situation to be good and getting better with experience. We have destroyed that with coaching change of philosophy ( see Chris Hogan) and cuts, our LB corp was stronger that we imagined. DB's were set and with Gilmore allowed to walk now becomes a huge weakness of the team having now to replace A cb and safety. Injuries are a part of the game, self inflicted pain should not be. This is a management problem. So this draft we now must deal with these units, rather than working on improving the team with the strongest, best player or even a QB. When you now draft a QB project it comes at the expense of strengthening one of the units we destroyed by our own hand. WRs, LB, DB, should be set and through our own acts are not. 17 years of starting over again.... After 17 years of this, you may want to consider using "they" and "their" instead of "we" and "our" to disassociate yourself from this train wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Yup. And it gets much worse when you're in cap trouble. That's when teams like the Pats can swoop in and structure offers to make it hard for you to match. $6 mill for two years isn't prohibitive. But when you have at this point in the year around $10 mill left and around $5 mill of that will go to the rookie draftees, $4 mill this year - which is how the Pats structured their offer - really is very difficult to match. We screwed ourselves by getting in this cap situation. It's not a Herschel Walker type deal. But yeah, they fleeced us. Actually agree with you. The run game was good because other teams let them. No one cares if the Bills run for 150 and a TD when the opposing QB can put up 300 and 3 TDs. I betcha the Polish cavalry had some magnificent horses. Too bad they had to fight tanks and airplanes. Bills were top ten in scoring in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Bills Forum = Lots of Chicken Littles! Yeah, you'd think they were rooting for the NFL team with the longest playoff drought or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Bills Forum = Lots of Chicken Littles! Those used to be .33¢ at KFC back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Actually agree with you. Bills were top ten in scoring in 2016. ... And 7th overall going into the EJ game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 If we allow the Pats to walk with our running back we continue the pattern of reducing strong points of our team which stops us from working on weaknesses successfully building a team. Consider 2 years ago when people on this web site would have considered our Receivers situation to be good and getting better with experience. We have destroyed that with coaching change of philosophy ( see Chris Hogan) and cuts, our LB corp was stronger that we imagined. DB's were set and with Gilmore allowed to walk now becomes a huge weakness of the team having now to replace A cb and safety. Injuries are a part of the game, self inflicted pain should not be. This is a management problem. So this draft we now must deal with these units, rather than working on improving the team with the strongest, best player or even a QB. When you now draft a QB project it comes at the expense of strengthening one of the units we destroyed by our own hand. WRs, LB, DB, should be set and through our own acts are not. 17 years of starting over again.... Until you QB is a strength you dont have a contending team in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I honestly believe now that they treat their games against the Bills not as competitive matches but rather as scouting expos. It's kinda like a super-Senior Bowl for them. Chandler was their EJ -- he had a great game against the Pats in 2014 (like EJ in the Senior Bowl), but that one game was deceiving. I think you are seriously on to something. MG was great in that second Pats game last year.....12 attempts for 85 yards.....ended up being something of an audition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 600+ total yards and 9 total TDs is worth the higher tender OBD chose not to give, despite knowing of the possibility of an offering team structuring an offer this way because OBD did that with Clay If Gillislee, as he is now, were available with our 5th round pick, then I take him over any other HB who figures to be available Exactly . this is what happens to a team for 17 years that has such terrible decisions on the cap by Overdorf and the rest of the idiots who decide that poor risks like Dareus should be signed to screw up our cap room. The Pats let these type walk and keep the Gillislee types who play the game properly. The Pats tell B Spikes to take a hike and we sign him, over pay for a one dimensional player, a troubled player and then allow him to infiltrate our dressing room and not even play him. Only the Bills would sign Spikes and Percy Harvin in the same year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) Well for starters he's the best yard per carry running back in the NFL, and the best #2 guy for sure. Secondly, almost every starting RB gets hurt and Shady is no exception. He's not a kid anymore either. Jonathan Williams hasn't shown much yet. If he becomes our starting runner this season it's a big dropoff for us unless the kid really progresses this year. Go watch the 2nd Miami game and see how TD Mike kept us in that game and basically won it for us if we had a decent kicker. He was so fast and explosive out there, huge runs when we needed them. He's worth 2.75 million per year. Whaley won on Groy, lost on Mike G with these low tenders. Maybe it was Overdorf, either way our offense got worse. McDermott has to be pissed. Go get Jamaal Charles for less money, give him the 8 touches per game and watch him crush Gillys ypc Edited April 20, 2017 by Over 28 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Just end 2017 with us feeling the team is building and on the rise, that management won't make boneheaded decision obvious to all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) Constantly changing schemes and coaching staffs makes it impossible to carry over the strength of a football team from one season to the next IMO because normally the strength is due in part to coaches putting players in a position to succeed. Continuity is the cure. I'm a Billiever... Edited April 20, 2017 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Constantly changing schemes and coaching staffs makes it impossible to carry over the strength of a football team from one season to the next IMO because normally the strength is due in part to coaches putting players in a position to succeed. Continuity is the cure. I'm a Billiever... it's a good thing to lack continuity when the franchise has been hiring incompetent bozos as head coach for a long time I believe this is a decent hire to start building an honest contender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 it's a good thing to lack continuity when the franchise has been hiring incompetent bozos as head coach for a long time I believe this is a decent hire to start building an honest contender I'm a Billiever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I'm a Billiever... Like I'm going anywhere if it's good bad or ugly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) Go get Jamaal Charles for less money, give him the 8 touches per game and watch him crush Gillys ypc Isnt Charles more like a Shady type then a Gilly type? by that I mean....a "get the tough yards type" is more of the Gilly mode (now that I have said that....does this explain bring Tolbert in?) Edited April 20, 2017 by John from Hemet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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