smuvtalker Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 RIP Tom. Once a Bill,always a Bill. Condolences to his family Amen. RIP Mr Modrak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) Didn't he do most of his work from his home in Jacksonville? Which is somewhat odd. Whaley is an immensely more accomplished pro scout than John Guy. With Guy's job poor performance his longevity with the organization indicates how archaic and frozen this franchise was. I have recently been critical of Whaley. But in my mind he represented the line of demarcation from the old world to the modern era. Marv Levy was a wonderful person with a distinguished coaching career. Wilson's hiring of Levy was an irrational act that set this franchise back. I say this respectfully because of his recently passing but Modrak's work with the Bills wasn't very impressive. Some of the downturn in his performance had to do with the backwater franchise he worked with. I can say the same thing about Tom Donahoe who I was very disappointed in. Working in Buffalo was a challenge for anyone to maximize one's talents. He did a lot of work away (Guy was usually in the building). I agree wholeheartedly with everything you are saying. I really do feel bad discussing it all here. Modrak is an important figure in Bills history. Hopefully he didn't suffer too much. Edited April 12, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 If I'm not mistaken he worked remotely a lot because he was highly dependent on BLESTO and similar rating services, which had a heyday but lost their relevance and effectiveness while Tommy was still relying on them. That said, he seemed like a quality human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Mike Williams, JP Losman, Aaron Maybin, Donte Whitner, John McCargo, CJ Spiller, Torell Troup, Leodis McKelvin, James Hardy, Chris Kelsay, Josh Reed, Ryan Denney. Woof. Just awful 1st and 2nd round picks. No wonder we've sucked for so long. Even the ones that were "good" were extremely questionable. Sad news to hear, regardless. I was a Modrak critic but I've never assigned any of Donahoe's picks directly to Modrak. Donahoe was a scout himself and his fail was all over the Mike Williams, Losman, McGahee and Parrish picks.......perhaps Modrak deserved more credit for some of TD's poor choices but they just seemed very much driven by whatever weird concepts were spinning thru Whitey's head at that time. He passed on a virtual consensus opinion to wrongly take Mike Williams and was downright contentious about the possibility of selecting Bryant McKinnie during the whole process.........the McGahee and Parrish picks were pure arrogance......he treated those picks like he was playing with house money which seemed very much different than how they had done things in Pittsburgh. The first Donahoe draft was the last with Dwight Adams in charge of college scouting and that was a good one....Clements, Schobel, Henry, Jonas Jennings. After Donahoe left the choices weren't as bad.......but again.....they were dictated a bit by the fact that the team was bad and yet was STILL letting good players leave. You may succeed by drafting a Lynch to replace McGahee or a Poz to replace London Fletcher......but sooner or later you are going to get a McKelvin to replace Nate Clements and then you aren't just treading water but you are sinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 I was a Modrak critic but I've never assigned any of Donahoe's picks directly to Modrak. Donahoe was a scout himself and his fail was all over the Mike Williams, Losman, McGahee and Parrish picks.......perhaps Modrak deserved more credit for some of TD's poor choices but they just seemed very much driven by whatever weird concepts were spinning thru Whitey's head at that time. He passed on a virtual consensus opinion to wrongly take Mike Williams and was downright contentious about the possibility of selecting Bryant McKinnie during the whole process.........the McGahee and Parrish picks were pure arrogance......he treated those picks like he was playing with house money which seemed very much different than how they had done things in Pittsburgh. The first Donahoe draft was the last with Dwight Adams in charge of college scouting and that was a good one....Clements, Schobel, Henry, Jonas Jennings. After Donahoe left the choices weren't as bad.......but again.....they were dictated a bit by the fact that the team was bad and yet was STILL letting good players leave. You may succeed by drafting a Lynch to replace McGahee or a Poz to replace London Fletcher......but sooner or later you are going to get a McKelvin to replace Nate Clements and then you aren't just treading water but you are sinking. Dwayne Wright was on Ralph, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was also the driving force behind the McGahee pick and the Bledsoe trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 I was a Modrak critic but I've never assigned any of Donahoe's picks directly to Modrak. Donahoe was a scout himself and his fail was all over the Mike Williams, Losman, McGahee and Parrish picks.......perhaps Modrak deserved more credit for some of TD's poor choices but they just seemed very much driven by whatever weird concepts were spinning thru Whitey's head at that time. He passed on a virtual consensus opinion to wrongly take Mike Williams and was downright contentious about the possibility of selecting Bryant McKinnie during the whole process.........the McGahee and Parrish picks were pure arrogance......he treated those picks like he was playing with house money which seemed very much different than how they had done things in Pittsburgh. The first Donahoe draft was the last with Dwight Adams in charge of college scouting and that was a good one....Clements, Schobel, Henry, Jonas Jennings. After Donahoe left the choices weren't as bad.......but again.....they were dictated a bit by the fact that the team was bad and yet was STILL letting good players leave. You may succeed by drafting a Lynch to replace McGahee or a Poz to replace London Fletcher......but sooner or later you are going to get a McKelvin to replace Nate Clements and then you aren't just treading water but you are sinking. ....I actually met Donohole outside a Pittsford restaurant for a smoke during Bills training camp at St John Fisher one year.....guy was very nice, engaging and we talked about the club....I still remember him saying, "WE like what WE have done with OUR football team"....it actually was all HIM because of his control freak nature....his tenure set this club back a decade...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 ....I actually met Donohole outside a Pittsford restaurant for a smoke during Bills training camp at St John Fisher one year.....guy was very nice, engaging and we talked about the club....I still remember him saying, "WE like what WE have done with OUR football team"....it actually was all HIM because of his control freak nature....his tenure set this club back a decade...... He should write a book about his years in Buffalo, that would be a GREAT read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 He should write a book about his years in Buffalo, that would be a GREAT read. ....and what should be the title?............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 ....and what should be the title?.............Ralph and Me. It doesn't matter what he would call it, if he revealed the real dirt, I would buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 ....and what should be the title?............. "The Nicknames Brando Gave Me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Ralph and Me. It doesn't matter what he would call it, if he revealed the real dirt, I would buy it.. ....the preface would be entitled" El Presidente"....why I was obsessed with a plaque on my door signifying COMPLETE and TOTAL control over all personnel matters to fuel my ego....and the title of the book would be "How To Ruin An NFL Franchise For Dummies"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 I was a Modrak critic but I've never assigned any of Donahoe's picks directly to Modrak. Donahoe was a scout himself and his fail was all over the Mike Williams, Losman, McGahee and Parrish picks.......perhaps Modrak deserved more credit for some of TD's poor choices but they just seemed very much driven by whatever weird concepts were spinning thru Whitey's head at that time. He passed on a virtual consensus opinion to wrongly take Mike Williams and was downright contentious about the possibility of selecting Bryant McKinnie during the whole process.........the McGahee and Parrish picks were pure arrogance......he treated those picks like he was playing with house money which seemed very much different than how they had done things in Pittsburgh. The first Donahoe draft was the last with Dwight Adams in charge of college scouting and that was a good one....Clements, Schobel, Henry, Jonas Jennings. After Donahoe left the choices weren't as bad.......but again.....they were dictated a bit by the fact that the team was bad and yet was STILL letting good players leave. You may succeed by drafting a Lynch to replace McGahee or a Poz to replace London Fletcher......but sooner or later you are going to get a McKelvin to replace Nate Clements and then you aren't just treading water but you are sinking. With Donahoe I always got the sense that he worked hard to prove to everyone that he was the smartest and most innovative person in the room. He preferred outside of the box action rather than the conventional approach because he wanted to demonstrate that he was better than the other pedestrian thinkers in his business. Donahoe was the type of person who was so insufferable that the building he worked in would gladly participate (surreptitiously of course) in sabotaging him. He was the type of boss that would create a climate of fear and oppression that makes being at work miserable. When he left I'm sure there was plenty of joyous snickering seeing him walk out the door on his last day on the job with his head hanging low. I agree with you that his first draft was superb. After that it was mediocre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 With Donahoe I always got the sense that he worked hard to prove to everyone that he was the smartest and most innovative person in the room. He preferred outside of the box action rather than the conventional approach because he wanted to demonstrate that he was better than the other pedestrian thinkers in his business. Donahoe was the type of person who was so insufferable that the building he worked in would gladly participate (surreptitiously of course) in sabotaging him. He was the type of boss that would create a climate of fear and oppression that makes being at work miserable. When he left I'm sure there was plenty of joyous snickering seeing him walk out the door on his last day on the job with his head hanging low. I agree with you that his first draft was superb. After that it was mediocre. Having the worst owner in the league micro-managing you every day would give anyone a bad attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo86 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Dwayne Wright was on Ralph, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was also the driving force behind the McGahee pick and the Bledsoe trade. Mel Kiper referred to Dwayne Wright as "The Tom Brady of the 2007 draft." That still cracks me up to this day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Having the worst owner in the league micro-managing you every day would give anyone a bad attitude. It certainly wasn't easy working for Ralph. However, when Donahoe worked in Pittsburgh he created such internal strife that Bill Cowher gave the organization an ultimatum that either Donahoe got the boot or he was leaving. The ownership preferred keeping the coach with the chin over the man with the unlikable personality. Edited April 13, 2017 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I distinctly remember reading on the BBMB that Modrak did all his scouting in front of a computer. This partially explains the Decade of Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I was a Modrak critic but I've never assigned any of Donahoe's picks directly to Modrak. Donahoe was a scout himself and his fail was all over the Mike Williams, Losman, McGahee and Parrish picks.......perhaps Modrak deserved more credit for some of TD's poor choices but they just seemed very much driven by whatever weird concepts were spinning thru Whitey's head at that time. He passed on a virtual consensus opinion to wrongly take Mike Williams and was downright contentious about the possibility of selecting Bryant McKinnie during the whole process.........the McGahee and Parrish picks were pure arrogance......he treated those picks like he was playing with house money which seemed very much different than how they had done things in Pittsburgh. The first Donahoe draft was the last with Dwight Adams in charge of college scouting and that was a good one....Clements, Schobel, Henry, Jonas Jennings. After Donahoe left the choices weren't as bad.......but again.....they were dictated a bit by the fact that the team was bad and yet was STILL letting good players leave. You may succeed by drafting a Lynch to replace McGahee or a Poz to replace London Fletcher......but sooner or later you are going to get a McKelvin to replace Nate Clements and then you aren't just treading water but you are sinking. I'm not sure why I sometimes see McGahee thrown into the list of bust picks. It was a gamble, and if you look at the value he provided, it turned out to be a pretty successful one. 23rd overall pick, missed a year, but then produced back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons and a near miss (990 yards) in his third season, not to mention a very productive overall career. Kind of like if Shaq Lawson become a very good (but not great) pass rusher from 2017-2019 - that certainly wouldn't be a bust. In fact it would be pretty damn good for a 20th of so pick, even taking into account the lost season. But that's kind of nitpicking, since Modrak overall didn't exactly put together the most sterling record of draft success ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Mike Williams, JP Losman, Aaron Maybin, Donte Whitner, John McCargo, CJ Spiller, Torell Troup, Leodis McKelvin, James Hardy, Chris Kelsay, Josh Reed, Ryan Denney. Woof. Just awful 1st and 2nd round picks. No wonder we've sucked for so long. Even the ones that were "good" were extremely questionable. Sad news to hear, regardless. The question was always whether it was actually Modrak making those picks or whether coaches and front office guys made them. And it was always weird how we screwed up our early picks in that era but did well on the later ones. Isn't that almost impossible? Not if the personnel guy making the later picks is having the early picks taken out of his hands. See the Gaughan article on Modrak in another thread. Edited April 13, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Again, I don't want to get into this all here but that's not really the case. Marv slept through the draft meetings (literally). He wasn't scouting or making decisions. Neither was Brandon. They had the title but not the power. The personnel decisions ended with Modrak and Guy (with a lot of input from the scouting staff and coaching staff). Go into the article from Gaughn in the Buffalo News today. It sure didn't sound like Modrak had the final call on those famous Bills busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Go into the article from Gaughn in the Buffalo News today. It sure didn't sound like Modrak had the final call on those famous Bills busts. The Bills have always been very collaborative but Modrak ran the show. No players were picked against his will. He assembled the board, ran the scouting meetings and was the trigger man in that room. I was in the war room for one of the 1st round picks. He took input from everyone and if someone felt passionately when they were deciding between a couple of guys that would have been taken seriously. No one was overruling him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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