Delete This Account Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 WTF are you talking about? Stop with the spinning class. 1) i don't answer to you. 2) i have no clue what you're suggesting in regards to spinning. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1) i don't answer to you. 2) i have no clue what you're suggesting in regards to spinning. jw ???? Not even worth the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) ???? Not even worth the time typical cowardly response. make an accusation. refuse to back it up when called upon. jw Edited February 24, 2017 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 PR doesn't affect the on the field product? It does if the organization is constantly being referred to as being a tire fire of dysfunction. Perception of an organization can discourage FAs from coming to visit or sign here based upon the presumption that the rumors and PFT articles they read are true. Managing and refuting this was Berchtold's job and he did a garbage job of it. The Bills have not had a franchise qb for twenty years. The Bills have the embarrassing distinction of not making the playoffs for 18 consecutive years (counting this coming season). The Bills have constantly turned over its staff as if magic is waiting in the wings with a new hire. The perception of the team has nothing to do with a nondescript and outdated PR man of yesteryear. The ingrained perception of this team is earned by the long term failure on the field. PR doesn't affect the on the field product? Your quote. Absolutely not. It is as irrelevant and meaningless as Rex's bravado declarations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Also, in case anyone was wondering, this move obviously means.. Illuminati Confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 yes, attendance sure dropped off over the past two years. jw Its not worth it, we see this differently. For me the world is not so black and white. but I've punched enough keys over public relations lol. I hope you enjoy the gorgeous weather this weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 JW vs. The world. I love this. This is how good the board used to be years ago. Now-a-days there are ridiculous arguments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 JW vs. The world. I love this. This is how good the board used to be years ago. Now-a-days there are ridiculous arguments Oh no. There was the whole retatta arguments. Street poles are more dangerous than guns. Keene clown college. How to cook potato salad on the hood of your car. Oh and everything is 3.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 OK i admit i havent read the whole thread but We are not really blaming media for the product on he field are we? As fans we should be better then that. There are some media that I absolutely deplore......but they are not the reason why our team has been unsuccessful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 JW vs. The world. I love this. This is how good the board used to be years ago. Now-a-days there are ridiculous arguments mrags should go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 JW - I like you, but I think you're taking the defense of this guy a little too far. By any objective measure (controlling leaks, making sure there is a coherent message coming out of the FO, making sure people who need to be at the podium are at the podium, managing responses to negative stories) SB has been fairly awful at his job for quite some time. When your defense of his job means you have to flip back 20+ years for most of your player singing and cherry pick a couple of more "recent" signings you know you're reaching. SB is not solely responsible for the acquisition or failure to bring in talent, but he is responsible for the perception of this team as clueless and dysfunctional. Citing Mario, who was overpaid and made the highest paid D player in the game is an overreach of epic proportions, you're just trolling now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 mrags should go? mr ags still reads this stuff. it's funny. i can call him a knuckle dragging fish sucking dork with a funny shaped club foot and he will text me in a few hours to let me know he sees this. i love you mikey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 JW - I like you, but I think you're taking the defense of this guy a little too far. By any objective measure (controlling leaks, making sure there is a coherent message coming out of the FO, making sure people who need to be at the podium are at the podium, managing responses to negative stories) SB has been fairly awful at his job for quite some time. When your defense of his job means you have to flip back 20+ years for most of your player singing and cherry pick a couple of more "recent" signings you know you're reaching. SB is not solely responsible for the acquisition or failure to bring in talent, but he is responsible for the perception of this team as clueless and dysfunctional. Citing Mario, who was overpaid and made the highest paid D player in the game is an overreach of epic proportions, you're just trolling now. 1) I wrote I respect Scott and won't speak ill of him. 2) How a PR staff functions has nothing to do with the product on the field or personnel moves. 3) Your sarcasm meter is in the "off" position. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Oh no. There was the whole retatta arguments. Street poles are more dangerous than guns. Keene clown college. How to cook potato salad on the hood of your car. Oh and everything is 3.5. oh yes, all of this. but this is how an argument on here is best. these new arguments revolve around kitties and their feelings. and how they get upset being called a name. and they're progressive and don't need names. etc. then they copy and paste someone elses work and call it their own because of the lack of original thought in the current world is terribly alarming. that's one of the reasons it is so fun when that drunk canadian gets in to it with us. especially when you see wawrow posting after midnight - you know it's drinking scotch, listening to a record of the the replacements and opining so eloquently with words that just make everything he says sound richer. even if what he said was complete retarded nonsense his choice of words and how he expresses it can only enthrall someone to fall for it and take the bite. wawrow is a great dude. fun and a personality that is rock star. so much different than timmy graham when he stopped by - tim's changed his online presence, too. i still miss the homework threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Buddy, what are you talking about? John was more than fair in his assessment that this change in the organization doesn't have one iota to do with the product on the field. He wasn't campaigning to keep Scott where he is either. I believe you need to go re-read the posts in this thread I think YOU need to go back and re-read some posts. I don't think anyone has said the PR guy is responsible for the teams woes. I'm pretty sure everyone supporting the move is just saying that the PR dept. has also failed at their job over the years and the head of that should be held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Of course the PR department isn't responsible for the product on the field, but does the worst run franchise on the field in the new millennium have to be a joke off the field too? The way the end of the season and post season press conference was handled by the Bills was absolutely embarrassing. We were lambasted by the national media and any outside observer would look in on Buffalo say of course they haven't made the playoffs in 17 years. It's enough that we have to suffer through this playoff drought, at least give us the dignity of not having to explain the Whaley press conference, Lynn conference, etc to our friends who are fans of other teams. I don't care if Berchtold was a really nice guy. Last time I checked being really nice isn't what makes businesses successful, and it sure as hell isn't what wins championships. You add value to people by making their lives easier, not by being really nice. Berchtold may not be responsible for what happens on the field, but he did represent and was a main cog in a regime that personified losing. There was a low level of accountability within the organization in Wilson later years. I am glad to see things are changing. Littman is gone, Berchtold is gone, and as a die hard Bills fan since I was 5 years old, I would like to see two more go. Edited February 24, 2017 by K-GunJimKelly12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 It isn't just what is said it is the haphazard way in which the whole thing is structured. Part of your job as a Head of Media, VP of Media Relations or whatever the title was is to get your bosses to do media even when they don't want to and persuade them as to its benefits. I remain very firmly of the view that Terry Pegula should have faced the press after the Rex Ryan firing and if old Scotty boy couldn't persuade him of the benefits of that approach then he was not effective in his job. I've had to get Government Ministers to go and face the music when things haven't gone as planned and guess what.... they never want to do it.... it is your job to persuade them that they have to do it. People who think all his job entailed was to stand by the podium and say "just a couple more guys" completely misunderstand that role. The Owner, the President, the GM, the Head Coach they should all see him as their communications expert when delivering key messages. They should be going to him and saying "Scott how do you recommend we handle this....?" If that was not happening and furthermore he wasn't even able to persuade them to take his advice (giving him the benefit of the doubt that he as offering it) then he needed replacing. Does this make us a playoff team? No, but you shouldn't willingly let your media operation stay an utter mess just because it doesn't affect results on the field. He had to go and this move will improve the organisation.... even though you won't see it in the W column. Do all teams have a that same guy who does what you are saying--literally directing the highest level of management on how to deliver basic information? I'm not sure I believe owners and GMs are dependent on, what, a PR guy to help them speak? Of course if your GM isn't that bright (or at least a little more clever after this many years in this league), there's not much you can do to help that. You can't speed up that kind of slow. Obviously this has nothing at all to do with actual football; I guess it's more to keep the faithful....faithful and hopeful. It's not easy for me to see how or where this makes a huge difference for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Of course the PR department isn't responsible for the product on the field, but does the worst run franchise on the field in the new millennium have to be a joke off the field too? The way the end of the season and post season press conference was handled by the Bills was absolutely embarrassing. We were lambasted by the national media and any outside observer would look in on Buffalo say of course they haven't made the playoffs in 17 years. It's enough that we have to suffer through this playoff drought, at least give us the dignity of not having to explain the Whaley press conference, Lynn conference, etc to our friends who are fans of other teams. I don't care if Berchtold was a really nice guy. Last time I checked being really nice isn't what makes businesses successful, and it sure as hell isn't what wins championships. You add value to people by making their lives easier, not by being really nice. Berchtold may not be responsible for what happens on the field, but he did represent and was a main cog in a regime that personified losing. There was a low level of accountability within the organization in Wilson later years. I am glad to see things are changing. Littman is gone, Berchtold is gone, and as a die hard Bills fan since I was 5 years old, I would like to see two more go. Let's go point by point: 1) The team is a joke off the field because it can't get any traction on it. And it seems as if each move the team makes (Shaq surgery/Ragland injured/Sammy Watkins surgery/Marcell suspension/Karlos cut, among the most recent) backfire on them. 2) Whaley's post-season press conference: It was mandated. And he was aware it was coming. In fact, he was nervous it was coming. In fact, had he addressed certain issues (and he is the one who chose not to, despite PR staff's requests), some of the issues could have been relieved. If PR staff asks and the GM says no, what to do? 3) The national media lambasted Whaley for seeming to know very little about the Bills operation he apparently oversees. 4) Because Whaley once again declined to address the Rex Ryan firing -- and he was requested numerous times -- the PR staff was left with no choice but to parade out Lynn without a net. Didn't help that others in the front office, Russ Brandon, namely, has washed his hands of the public oversight of the football operation does not help. 5) When have I said Scott was a "nice" guy. I said I respect the job that he did and he treated me professionally. 6) Yes, you add value to people by making their lives easier, and yet this is a franchise that appears to continually take the long road with too many missteps to mention, and no way to smooth over the obvious jagged edges. 7) There was little accountability in the final Wilson years. How does that reflect on the PR staff when those above them are attempting to fill the many pockets and vacuums of power. I think that reflects more poorly on those who were entrusted by Ralph to handle that responsibility with loyalty and foresight. Instead, they kept making inexplicable signings and draft-day moves and selections. But of course, all this falls on Scott. jw Crazy thing is, people made fun of Rex Ryan winning the offseason. And, it seems some will be more than content with the Bills having an NFL-leading PR staff, because that's what truly matters. Edited February 24, 2017 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) ^^ Don't disagree with any of that, except for #5 cause I've never met him. Bottom line though, he was still one of Ralph's boys, which makes him accordingly labeled as a loser and a chump. It is what it is. Would I rather see Lil Doug or Russ thrown to the curb? Absolutely. Edited February 24, 2017 by Rico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Was he the guy that sent the memo of Rex's firing that the press didn't bother to read or acknowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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