transplantbillsfan Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 13 hours ago, Foxx said: so... you want DR to prove a negative. 13 hours ago, Foxx said: you know that there is no legal standard or crime regarding collusion, right? you have so clearly been conditioned by the propagandists. So you probably noticed that right after I said "yes" about collusion, I also gave a shakier, more tentative "yes" to conspiracy. To me what matters is not the semantics of whether he committed a crime or not--and again, I said I believe he probably did--but that he was fairly actively looking for a foreign government to help him get elected. Even if he didn't actually dive in and get his hair wet, pretty clearly he dipped his feet in to gauge the temperature of the water. 13 hours ago, Foxx said: oye! you don't prove innocence you dolt (said in the most loving way)! it's like asking someone to prove a negative, it doesn't work that way. you should be glad it doesn't too. what if someone said you molest your students? unless your proven innocent, you are then guilty? believe all women, amiright? First of all, talking about an act done by the President of the United States is very different from talking about some Joe Schmoe on the street. Do you think OJ murdered his wife? He was acquitted. Most believe he's a murderer, though, based on overwhelming evidence. Yet he wasn't convicted, for any number of reasons. That doesn't mean he didn't do it. Same here for Donald Trump. 13 hours ago, westside2 said: The burden of proof is on the accuser. That is how the law is set up. If you information that no one else has, I would like to hear it. I keep an open mind. As of today, that evidence doesn't exist. Kinda difficult to dig that proof up when the most powerful man in the world stymies all your efforts in any way he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: So you probably noticed that right after I said "yes" about collusion, I also gave a shakier, more tentative "yes" to conspiracy. To me what matters is not the semantics of whether he committed a crime or not--and again, I said I believe he probably did--but that he was fairly actively looking for a foreign government to help him get elected. Even if he didn't actually dive in and get his hair wet, pretty clearly he dipped his feet in to gauge the temperature of the water. First of all, talking about an act done by the President of the United States is very different from talking about some Joe Schmoe on the street. Do you think OJ murdered his wife? He was acquitted. Most believe he's a murderer, though, based on overwhelming evidence. Yet he wasn't convicted, for any number of reasons. That doesn't mean he didn't do it. Same here for Donald Trump. So then, by the same token, Biden withheld money from Ukraine until they first that prosecutor who was for looking into corruption at Burisma. He wasn't convicted but that doesn't mean he didn't do it. And he actually admitted to threatening to withhold the money unless/until he was fired. Edited June 25, 2020 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Doc said: So then, by the same token, Biden withheld money from Ukraine until they first that prosecutor who was for looking into corruption at Burisma. He wasn't convicted but that doesn't mean he didn't do it. And he actually admitted to threatening to withhold the money unless/until he was fired. And all of you here think he's guilty, right? Thank you for proving that point for me. Except that there's a lot more evidence (circumstantial or more material) that Trump colluded with Russia. The evidence against Biden is more flimsy and circumstantial. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: So you probably noticed that right after I said "yes" about collusion, I also gave a shakier, more tentative "yes" to conspiracy. To me what matters is not the semantics of whether he committed a crime or not--and again, I said I believe he probably did--but that he was fairly actively looking for a foreign government to help him get elected. Even if he didn't actually dive in and get his hair wet, pretty clearly he dipped his feet in to gauge the temperature of the water. First of all, talking about an act done by the President of the United States is very different from talking about some Joe Schmoe on the street. Do you think OJ murdered his wife? He was acquitted. Most believe he's a murderer, though, based on overwhelming evidence. Yet he wasn't convicted, for any number of reasons. That doesn't mean he didn't do it. Same here for Donald Trump. Kinda difficult to dig that proof up when the most powerful man in the world stymies all your efforts in any way he can. Really, There was the FBI and DOJ, a special prosecutor, several Congressional and Senate Committees, State Attorneys General, Whistleblowers, fart blowers, windbags, cable TV pundits and perfessers. Everyone has been looking to find something on Trump. It didn’t boil down to him trying to stuff his crippled, arthritic hand into a leather glove. It didn’t boil down to “yeah, but ... technicality”. They didn’t find anything. They didn’t find anything before he was elected. They didn’t find anything after he was sworn in. At least not yet. They’re still looking 4 years later. It will be 4 years at the end of July — you realize that? Obviously you you will never be convinced. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: And all of you here think he's guilty, right? Thank you for proving that point for me. Except that there's a lot more evidence (circumstantial or more material) that Trump colluded with Russia. The evidence against Biden is more flimsy and circumstantial. As snafu said, after 4 years and tens of millions of dollars wasted, there's no evidence he colluded with Russia. That's why they had to reach for obstruction...and still failed there. What Biden actually said he did hasn't even come within the same galaxy of being investigated as Trump's allegations with Ukraine, much much much less Russia, were. It should be. Edited June 25, 2020 by Doc 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 37 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: So you probably noticed that right after I said "yes" about collusion, I also gave a shakier, more tentative "yes" to conspiracy. To me what matters is not the semantics of whether he committed a crime or not--and again, I said I believe he probably did--but that he was fairly actively looking for a foreign government to help him get elected. Even if he didn't actually dive in and get his hair wet, pretty clearly he dipped his feet in to gauge the temperature of the water. First of all, talking about an act done by the President of the United States is very different from talking about some Joe Schmoe on the street. Do you think OJ murdered his wife? He was acquitted. Most believe he's a murderer, though, based on overwhelming evidence. Yet he wasn't convicted, for any number of reasons. That doesn't mean he didn't do it. Same here for Donald Trump. Kinda difficult to dig that proof up when the most powerful man in the world stymies all your efforts in any way he can. Yeesh my man you’re going backwards here. You have the US congress, a dozen angry career prosecutors, doors kicked in, people hauled off to the gulag because they had a relationship with the president, and 400 page document prepared by a mortal enemy to the sitting president and you’re resorting to swimming analogies and apparently advocating for “Trial by feelz” standard for Presidential investigations. This is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, snafu said: Really, There was the FBI and DOJ, a special prosecutor, several Congressional and Senate Committees, State Attorneys General, Whistleblowers, fart blowers, windbags, cable TV pundits and perfessers. Everyone has been looking to find something on Trump. It didn’t boil down to him trying to stuff his crippled, arthritic hand into a leather glove. It didn’t boil down to “yeah, but ... technicality”. They didn’t find anything. They didn’t find anything before he was elected. They didn’t find anything after he was sworn in. At least not yet. They’re still looking 4 years later. It will be 4 years at the end of July — you realize that? Obviously you you will never be convinced. They didn't find anything? Seems a wild mischaracterization. Haven't read the report, but the summary of major findings in the Mueller report seems to tell a different story: 1. Trump was receptive to a Campaign national security adviser’s (George Papadopoulos) pursuit of a back channel to Putin. 2. Kremlin operatives provided the Campaign a preview of the Russian plan to distribute stolen emails. 3. The Trump Campaign chairman and deputy chairman (Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) knowingly shared internal polling data and information on battleground states with a Russian spy; and the Campaign chairman worked with the Russian spy on a pro-Russia “peace” plan for Ukraine. 4. The Trump Campaign chairman periodically shared internal polling data with the Russian spy with the expectation it would be shared with Putin-linked oligarch, Oleg Deripaska. 5. Trump Campaign chairman Manafort expected Trump’s winning the presidency would mean Deripaska would want to use Manafort to advance Deripaska’s interests in the United States and elsewhere. 6. Trump Tower meeting: (1) On receiving an email offering derogatory information on Clinton coming from a Russian government official, Donald Trump Jr. “appears to have accepted that offer;” (2) members of the Campaign discussed the Trump Tower meeting beforehand; (3) Donald Trump Jr. told the Russians during the meeting that Trump could revisit the issue of the Magnitsky Act if elected. 7. A Trump Campaign official told the Special Counsel he “felt obliged to object” to a GOP Platform change on Ukraine because it contradicted Trump’s wishes; however, the investigation did not establish that Gordon was directed by Trump. 8. Russian military hackers may have followed Trump’s July 27, 2016 public statement “Russia if you’re listening …” within hours by targeting Clinton’s personal office for the first time. 9. Trump requested campaign affiliates to get Clinton’s emails, which resulted in an individual apparently acting in coordination with the Campaign claiming to have successfully contacted Russian hackers. 10. The Trump Campaign—and Trump personally—appeared to have advanced knowledge of future WikiLeaks releases. 11. The Trump Campaign coordinated campaign-related public communications based on future WikiLeaks releases. 12. Michael Cohen, on behalf of the Trump Organization, brokered a secret deal for a Trump Tower Moscow project directly involving Putin’s inner circle, at least until June 2016. 13. During the presidential transition, Jared Kushner and Eric Prince engaged in secret back channel communications with Russian agents. (1) Kushner suggested to the Russian Ambassador that they use a secure communication line from within the Russian Embassy to speak with Russian Generals; and (2) Prince and Kushner’s friend Rick Gerson conducted secret back channel meetings with a Putin agent to develop a plan for U.S.-Russian relations. 14. During the presidential transition, in coordination with other members of the Transition Team, Michael Flynn spoke with the Russian Ambassador to prevent a tit for tat Russian response to the Obama administration’s imposition of sanctions for election interference; the Russians agreed not to retaliate saying they wanted a good relationship with the incoming administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: As snafu said, after 4 years and tens of millions of dollars wasted, there's no evidence he colluded with Russia. That's why they had to reach for obstruction...and still failed there. What Biden actually said he did hasn't even come within the same galaxy of being investigated as Trump's allegations with Ukraine, much much much less Russia, were. It should be. If Mr Smtih Goes To Washington were filmed today, it'd be a courtroom drama of Jimmy Stewart getting his rights violated, getting framed, and finally being trolled through the press as a Soviet agent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: And all of you here think he's guilty, right? Thank you for proving that point for me. Except that there's a lot more evidence (circumstantial or more material) that Trump colluded with Russia. The evidence against Biden is more flimsy and circumstantial. What evidence is against Trump with Russia besides the Steele Dossier that has been fully discredited. The evidence against Biden is simply his bragging about doing it, so I am comfortable saying with 100% certainty he got the guy investigating Burisma fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said: And all of you here think he's guilty, right? Thank you for proving that point for me. Except that there's a lot more evidence (circumstantial or more material) that Trump colluded with Russia. The evidence against Biden is more flimsy and circumstantial. Then let's shine the same investigative light on Biden, and see what happens. Ready? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 17 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: What evidence is against Trump with Russia besides the Steele Dossier that has been fully discredited. The evidence against Biden is simply his bragging about doing it, so I am comfortable saying with 100% certainty he got the guy investigating Burisma fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: They didn't find anything? Seems a wild mischaracterization. Haven't read the report, but the summary of major findings in the Mueller report seems to tell a different story: 1. Trump was receptive to a Campaign national security adviser’s (George Papadopoulos) pursuit of a back channel to Putin. 2. Kremlin operatives provided the Campaign a preview of the Russian plan to distribute stolen emails. 3. The Trump Campaign chairman and deputy chairman (Paul Manafort and Rick Gates) knowingly shared internal polling data and information on battleground states with a Russian spy; and the Campaign chairman worked with the Russian spy on a pro-Russia “peace” plan for Ukraine. 4. The Trump Campaign chairman periodically shared internal polling data with the Russian spy with the expectation it would be shared with Putin-linked oligarch, Oleg Deripaska. 5. Trump Campaign chairman Manafort expected Trump’s winning the presidency would mean Deripaska would want to use Manafort to advance Deripaska’s interests in the United States and elsewhere. 6. Trump Tower meeting: (1) On receiving an email offering derogatory information on Clinton coming from a Russian government official, Donald Trump Jr. “appears to have accepted that offer;” (2) members of the Campaign discussed the Trump Tower meeting beforehand; (3) Donald Trump Jr. told the Russians during the meeting that Trump could revisit the issue of the Magnitsky Act if elected. 7. A Trump Campaign official told the Special Counsel he “felt obliged to object” to a GOP Platform change on Ukraine because it contradicted Trump’s wishes; however, the investigation did not establish that Gordon was directed by Trump. 8. Russian military hackers may have followed Trump’s July 27, 2016 public statement “Russia if you’re listening …” within hours by targeting Clinton’s personal office for the first time. 9. Trump requested campaign affiliates to get Clinton’s emails, which resulted in an individual apparently acting in coordination with the Campaign claiming to have successfully contacted Russian hackers. 10. The Trump Campaign—and Trump personally—appeared to have advanced knowledge of future WikiLeaks releases. 11. The Trump Campaign coordinated campaign-related public communications based on future WikiLeaks releases. 12. Michael Cohen, on behalf of the Trump Organization, brokered a secret deal for a Trump Tower Moscow project directly involving Putin’s inner circle, at least until June 2016. 13. During the presidential transition, Jared Kushner and Eric Prince engaged in secret back channel communications with Russian agents. (1) Kushner suggested to the Russian Ambassador that they use a secure communication line from within the Russian Embassy to speak with Russian Generals; and (2) Prince and Kushner’s friend Rick Gerson conducted secret back channel meetings with a Putin agent to develop a plan for U.S.-Russian relations. 14. During the presidential transition, in coordination with other members of the Transition Team, Michael Flynn spoke with the Russian Ambassador to prevent a tit for tat Russian response to the Obama administration’s imposition of sanctions for election interference; the Russians agreed not to retaliate saying they wanted a good relationship with the incoming administration. Nice, you say that “didn’t find anything” is a “wild mischaracterization” and then you post that list of unproven allegations. Where did you get that summary? Holy crap, you’re going back 3 years to “where there’s smoke there’s fire”!? I have read Mueller’s report. I heard Mueller testify. Most of those points on your list are incorrect or overwrought. Others are speculation which have been shown to be false. That list is ‘Conspiracy Theory 101 Class Syllabus’. Ask yourself how many people were charged with crimes related to that list you posted — all of those people were extensively investigated. There was heavy duty surveillance on them before the election and after the election. Nothing came of it. Congress impeached Trump on matters completely unrelated to Mueller. They had to stretch and twist to come up with two Articles of Impeachment — yet they couldn’t stretch enough or twist enough to impeach him for Russia Collusion. Face it, you may hate the President, and he gives so many opportunities to do so. And he didn’t collude with Russia. And he’s not in Office illegitimately because of Russia Collusion. That case is closed. Fall back on some other reason. He’s an a-hole is sufficient. Edited June 25, 2020 by snafu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 9 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Thank you for admitting you are not capable of showing any evidence of Trump Russia besides the Steele dossier that even Steele admits is mostly Russian disinformation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Thank you for admitting you are not capable of showing any evidence of Trump Russia besides the Steele dossier that even Steele admits is mostly Russian disinformation And then you wonder why the education system is screwed up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 11 hours ago, snafu said: Really, There was the FBI and DOJ, a special prosecutor, several Congressional and Senate Committees, State Attorneys General, Whistleblowers, fart blowers, windbags, cable TV pundits and perfessers. Everyone has been looking to find something on Trump. It didn’t boil down to him trying to stuff his crippled, arthritic hand into a leather glove. It didn’t boil down to “yeah, but ... technicality”. They didn’t find anything. They didn’t find anything before he was elected. They didn’t find anything after he was sworn in. At least not yet. They’re still looking 4 years later. It will be 4 years at the end of July — you realize that? Obviously you you will never be convinced. They found lots of stuff, but they couldn’t prove that anything of value was traded between Trump and Putin, but they know Putin helped Trump, they know Trump welcomed the help. 13 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Thank you for admitting you are not capable of showing any evidence of Trump Russia besides the Steele dossier that even Steele admits is mostly Russian disinformation You haven’t followed the Russian story much, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: They found lots of stuff, but they couldn’t prove that anything of value was traded between Trump and Putin, but they know Putin helped Trump, they know Trump welcomed the help. ... seriously, tibs... read what you just wrote and think about it for longer than a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: They found lots of stuff, but they couldn’t prove that anything of value was traded between Trump and Putin, but they know Putin helped Trump, they know Trump welcomed the help. You haven’t followed the Russian story much, huh? Still on this subject Tibs? You’d be more productive helping OJ look for the real killer, or helping Geraldo find Jimmy Hoffa. Enough with the Putin nonsense already! We’ve moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Foxx said: seriously, tibs... read what you just wrote and think about it for longer than a second. The meeting at Trump Towers, for instance 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Still on this subject Tibs? You’d be more productive helping OJ look for the real killer, or helping Geraldo find Jimmy Hoffa. Enough with the Putin nonsense already! We’ve moved on. So you guys can’t seriously converse on this topic. You guys just start deflecting immediately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So you guys can’t seriously converse on this topic. You guys just start deflecting immediately I’m dead serious: You need help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Just now, SoCal Deek said: I’m dead serious: You need help! See! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts