PromoTheRobot Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Going back just 2 drafts, see the 2014 draft. 3 QB's worth taking after the first 3 picks. 1 32 Teddy Bridgewater QB Louisville Minnesota Vikings 2 36 Derek Carr QB Fresno State Oakland Raiders 2 62 Jimmy Garoppolo QB Eastern Illinois New England Patri Carr obviously. Bridgewater looked very good prior to the horrific injury. Garappolo unknown but looked like a very good player when he got in real game action. Bills need to step up and swing and not let EJ ruin them on doing that. Just curious, when did Garoppolo graduate to franchise status? I'm not arguing with you. Just saying that some players do well in the NFL when the lights come on. Brady looked the part in his first pre-season game. In the 2000 preseason, the 49ers and the Patriots played a game that foreshadowed the futures of Carmazzi and the quarterback drafted 134 spots behind him. Thrown in for a quarter against the Patriots’ first-team defense, Carmazzi looked nervous and overwhelmed. He completed three of seven passes and was sacked twice. Brady appeared in one mop-up series for the Patriots and showed poise and precision, connecting on three of four passes. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/03/sports/football/03draft.html It was mop up in preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Mike Mayock described EJ as a piece of clay Yea, and look at who molded him in his first season. The kid had no veteran QB on the roster to learn from and even bigger no freaking QB coach!!! The only person he had to draw knowledge from was a person who was new to the NFL as offensive coordinator. Never have I seen a situation in which a rookie QB is being instructed solely by a rookie OC! The team wanted EJ to sit and learn behind Kevin Kolb and that plan was ruined by the attack of a rubber mat In his second season, EJ finally got a QB coach and veteran QB to learn from and as he stated he learned far more from Kyle Orton then from anyone else on the team just by watching him. The pre-game preparation by Orton, the film study of opponents he never got to learn his first year under Nathaniel Hackett. Then the question becomes do you have the right people to mold him into what he should become? Or better yet will the FO and fans give him time to be molded into something special. Great point. I had more faith in Lynn, Roman developing Cardale Jones over this new coaching staff. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Im with you on Mahomes. I see a Qb that is slow to make reads, doesn't throw with anticipation, has a spotty deep ball, and relies on his athleticism too much which isn't going to get you very far in the NFL. I wanted to like him when watching him play. Trubisky and Watson are the guys to hope for. This is very, almost eerily, similar to where I am. I won't say too much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Just curious, when did Garoppolo graduate to franchise status? It was mop up in preseason. Do you have reading comprehension problems? Can't help you with that. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Watson is like a piece of clay that you can mold into something special! You mean like if you drop him, he'd shatter all over the place? I wouldn't bother with any of these QB's coming out this year. Nothin special. I'd rather draft someone from next year's class Edited January 25, 2017 by QuoteTheRaven83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) I think that's a very easy thing to say. Harder in practice. If the Bills think Watson is the guy, should they trade up? Yes Did the Raiders think Carr was the guy and if they did, why did they wait? Don't know and it depends on what grade they gave him. Maybe they thought he was great value in the 2nd? Maybe they loved him but couldn't move up? They clearly thought getting Mack was more important. Did the Bills think Kelly was the guy when they took him after Tony Hunter? They probably stuck to their draft board. There were other QBs on the board that they may have had rated pretty closely. I.E. if we take Hunter at 12 we can get Kelly or Marino at 14. If we take one of them now we might not get Hunter. So is it fair to say that the Bills in 83 and that the Raiders in 2014 did not follow the what you'd consider the correct process to finding their franchise guys? Edited January 25, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 So is it fair to say that the Bills in 83 and that the Raiders in 2014 did not follow the what you'd consider the process to finding their franchise guys?I don't know if they did or not. I don't know what their draft boards looked like. The goal is to have the value match the need. You take the guy when that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I agree with what Kirby is saying. If they decide one of these guys are the future of the team then by all means trade up and get him. I'm not sure I Trust Whaley in that capacity but if he is the GM you need to allow him to make his picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I don't know if they did or not. I don't know what their draft boards looked like. The goal is to have the value match the need. You take the guy when that happens. I guess I just saw it as if they thought they were the guys, they'd take them first. And if they didn't, they wouldn't take them. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I agree with what Kirby is saying. If they decide one of these guys are the future of the team then by all means trade up and get him. I'm not sure I Trust Whaley in that capacity but if he is the GM you need to allow him to make his picks. I'm of the opinion that you take as many shots as you can. Keep Tyrod, Draft someone in the first if you love them.... if you don't love anyone in the first go for someone you like in the 2nd or something. Doesn't hurt to have multiple options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Well, TT has reached his ceiling. These other QB's have a chance at surpassing him. I would like the Bills to have a plan beyond next year. Says who? Dont limit a man you dont know. Especially when im pretty sure you are not a QB coach or football coach on peewee level for that matter. Sometimes QBs take more time to develop. This guy has only started 2 years. And dont give me **** about his years riding the pine. All he learned there was how to run the scout team. Things are totally different when the lights are on and live bullets are flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I guess I just saw it as if they thought they were the guys, they'd take them first. And if they didn't, they wouldn't take them. Right?Not necessarily and the Kelly example is a good one. If they had Kelly and Marino (as an example) very close but Hunter and then a gap, they did the right thing. They got what they wanted. The value has to meet the need. If they were in a situation where one of those 2 QBs was off the board at 12 they might have acted differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Easier said than done. Too often the Bills get caught up in their own evaluation skills, I think. Taking Hackenberg over Ragland last year wouldn't have changed our record but we would've had a chance for a franchise guy. Being a Penn state fan, Hackenberg doesn't have the intelligence to be an NFL QB. I'd be utterly shocked if he did, considering how obvious it was at PSU. We are far better off finding a franchise guy in Cardale. I have a lot of doubts about Watson's football IQ too. He has a ton of athletic ability but stares down his target almost every time. Not a lot of decision making there, very scripted by the OC until the play breaks down. Mahomes is a gamer but man, his footwork is awful and throws some real EJ-style stinkers at times. Out of the three, Trubisky has the weakest arm and needs some better footwork at times. But he throws a good ball and definitely reads the field including progressions. Not the best QB draft year but out of the 3 he'd be my choice second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Easier said than done. Too often the Bills get caught up in their own evaluation skills, I think. Taking Hackenberg over Ragland last year wouldn't have changed our record but we would've had a chance for a franchise guy. FC I got nothing against you personally but thank God you are not the GM. Ragland will have a better career then Hackenberg. We can bet on it. Ragland is a CFP national champion (2015) BCS national champion (2012) 3× SEC champion (2012, 2014, 2015) SEC Defensive Player of the Year (2015) Unanimous All-American (2015) 2× First-team All-SEC (2014, 2015) Hackenberg had his best year early and was on a down slope the rest of his NCAA career. Wish him the best but Ragland > Hack 24/7/365 I understand what your saying though, you have to take a chance on a QB to get lucky. Just not Hackenberg, that was a bad example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 FC I got nothing against you personally but thank God you are not the GM. Ragland will have a better career then Hackenberg. We can bet on it. Ragland is a CFP national champion (2015) BCS national champion (2012) 3× SEC champion (2012, 2014, 2015) SEC Defensive Player of the Year (2015) Unanimous All-American (2015) 2× First-team All-SEC (2014, 2015) Hackenberg had his best year early and was on a down slope the rest of his NCAA career. Wish him the best but Ragland > Hack 24/7/365 I understand what your saying though, you have to take a chance on a QB to get lucky. Just not Hackenberg, that was a bad example. Deion Jones should have been the pick not Ragland or Hackenbum. Instead of evolving with the NFL Whaley and Rex traded up for a throw back thumping ILB who is a liability with the modern day pinball scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Deion Jones should have been the pick not Ragland or Hackenbum. Instead of evolving with the NFL Whaley and Rex traded up for a throw back thumping ILB who is a liability with the modern day pinball scores.Jones would have looked good and is versatile. He looks like a guy that can play well for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) I had low 1sts on Deion Jones and Ragland. They are both a bit scheme specific but neither is as bad at the other bit (Jones v the run and Ragland v the pass) as the pre-draft rumour mill would have you believe. Edited January 25, 2017 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Well, TT has reached his ceiling. These other QB's have a chance at surpassing him. I would like the Bills to have a plan beyond next year. Dammit! How can you say TT has reached his ceiling? Carr has certainly passed him. Bridgewater has a severe knee injury, may never play again, and put up worse stats that TT in almost every single catergory. Garropolo has sat behind Brady and played in a few games. He could be Steve Young or he could be Rob Johnson. Why can't TT continue to develop? He is 27 years old and about to enter the age where most qbs play their best. I want to add to this discussion... If the Bills draft a QB and in his first 2 years he gets invited to the pro bowl both years and puts up TT's stats would anyone want to move on from him? Is the difference between him being 24 and 27 really that huge? If we draft Watson and he goes for 47 tds and 12 ints and over 7000 yards wouldn't we all be ecstatic? We have a guy that just did that and people want to move on. Whomever the Bills draft the majbobbys and Ryan L Billz of the board will be ready to declare him a bust after his first preseason game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Not necessarily and the Kelly example is a good one. If they had Kelly and Marino (as an example) very close but Hunter and then a gap, they did the right thing. They got what they wanted. The value has to meet the need. If they were in a situation where one of those 2 QBs was off the board at 12 they might have acted differently.But I thought you said "if you think he's the guy and his 30th, take him at 12." Doesn't taking Hunter fly in the face of that? FC I got nothing against you personally but thank God you are not the GM. Ragland will have a better career then Hackenberg. We can bet on it. Ragland is a CFP national champion (2015) BCS national champion (2012) 3× SEC champion (2012, 2014, 2015) SEC Defensive Player of the Year (2015) Unanimous All-American (2015) 2× First-team All-SEC (2014, 2015) Hackenberg had his best year early and was on a down slope the rest of his NCAA career. Wish him the best but Ragland > Hack 24/7/365 I understand what your saying though, you have to take a chance on a QB to get lucky. Just not Hackenberg, that was a bad example. Ragland is Brandon Spikes lite. I won't hold my breath. It was a good example because Ragland didn't even play. So we would've felt no loss if Hack was a bust. Being a Penn state fan, Hackenberg doesn't have the intelligence to be an NFL QB. I'd be utterly shocked if he did, considering how obvious it was at PSU. We are far better off finding a franchise guy in Cardale. I have a lot of doubts about Watson's football IQ too. He has a ton of athletic ability but stares down his target almost every time. Not a lot of decision making there, very scripted by the OC until the play breaks down. Mahomes is a gamer but man, his footwork is awful and throws some real EJ-style stinkers at times. Out of the three, Trubisky has the weakest arm and needs some better footwork at times. But he throws a good ball and definitely reads the field including progressions. Not the best QB draft year but out of the 3 he'd be my choice second round. Zero chance Trubisky makes it to the second. Edited January 25, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 I like him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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