ChanOverChin Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I'm interested to find out what Bills fans really think. Are the Bills not likely to make the playoffs once again because of Ryan's poor coaching or is it because Whaley has made more than his fair share of failed decisions over time?? My two cents: Whaley - Agreed to draft Manuel in R1 (huge mistake), traded two R1 picks and a R4 pick for right to draft Watkins (huge mistake since he could have had WR OBJ by staying put or OLB K. Mack via the trade). Watkins, given his injury history, has been a near bust while OBJ and Mack have become mega-stars. He paid Dareus $100M+. Dareus is certainly capable of being a great player, but he's also lazy, injury prone, overweight, and a doper. Still sound like a good investment?? Whaley's biggest mistake has been not trying hard enough to obtain a franchise level QB. Settling for TT has made winning in a division that has been dominated by the Patriots the last eight years a real challenge. I would argue that is you're going to trade two R1 picks and a R4 pick it better be for a franchise level QB. Whaley has certainly done some very good things for the franchise, but the bigger picture issues listed above have contributed in a major way to the Bills' lack of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 What was wrong with all the other Whaley threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalooByrd Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 This is a great topic for conversation but the there really is no superior argument for one or the other. We can't clearly define what decisions Rex made vs what decisions Whaley made as it relates especially to the 2016 draft and free agency. This is why both of them need to go. I will say this: The talent on the Bills roster is that of a .500 team so I don't believe Rex is failing us when it comes to coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Wait Pats have only dominated the AFCE for 8 years.... that number seems to low hmmm lol. That said hitting on a Franchise QB is a roll of the dice, I doubt anyone in NE thought Brady was that when they drafted him in the 6th round. Just like SAN Diego probably thought Ryan Lief was a sure thing second over all. You never know what your truly getting till 2-3 years down the road usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I'm interested to find out what Bills fans really think. Are the Bills not likely to make the playoffs once again because of Ryan's poor coaching or is it because Whaley has made more than his fair share of failed decisions over time?? My two cents: Whaley - Agreed to draft Manuel in R1 (huge mistake), traded two R1 picks and a R4 pick for right to draft Watkins (huge mistake since he could have had WR OBJ by staying put or OLB K. Mack via the trade). Watkins, given his injury history, has been a near bust while OBJ and Mack have become mega-stars. He paid Dareus $100M+. Dareus is certainly capable of being a great player, but he's also lazy, injury prone, overweight, and a doper. Still sound like a good investment?? Whaley's biggest mistake has been not trying hard enough to obtain a franchise level QB. Settling for TT has made winning in a division that has been dominated by the Patriots the last eight years a real challenge. I would argue that is you're going to trade two R1 picks and a R4 pick it better be for a franchise level QB. Whaley has certainly done some very good things for the franchise, but the bigger picture issues listed above have contributed in a major way to the Bills' lack of success. Swapped a 1st round pick to move up and gave up a 1st & 4th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 We will have a better sense next year because this year's schedule turned out to be fairly easy. I think we have the talent of a .500 team, no better, and much of the "talent" was acquired through free agency (McCoy, Clay and Taylor) rather than through the draft. Whaley needs to go (and so does Ryan) to start fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Whaley's biggest mistake has been not trying hard enough to obtain a franchise level QB. Settling for TT has made winning in a division that has been dominated by the Patriots the last eight years a real challenge. Last year when most here had high expectations for Tyrod Taylor, it was chalked up to Rex's credit, that Rex is the one who wanted TT brought in and wanted to give him the starting job. Can we make up our minds? We will have a better sense next year because this year's schedule turned out to be fairly easy. I think we have the talent of a .500 team, no better, and much of the "talent" was acquired through free agency (McCoy, Clay and Taylor) rather than through the draft. Whaley needs to go (and so does Ryan) to start fresh. What does it matter if talent is acquired through FA or through the draft? We drafted Kiko and swapped him for McCoy, why is that a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) Wait Pats have only dominated the AFCE for 8 years.... that number seems to low hmmm lol. That said hitting on a Franchise QB is a roll of the dice, I doubt anyone in NE thought Brady was that when they drafted him in the 6th round. Just like SAN Diego probably thought Ryan Lief was a sure thing second over all. You never know what your truly getting till 2-3 years down the road usually. I don't remember hearing about NE fans before Brady. But Rex inherited a 9-7 team that started Kyle Orton and EJ and had the #4 defense. Clearly, Whaley is the problem. Edited December 20, 2016 by C.Biscuit97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I wonder when their relationship fell apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasMac Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) Who knows what Odell would be doing on this team. I wanted Evans but was happy with Sammy. He was always healthy in college and hopefully he will be going forward. He has been wide open recently though. Can't assume that any receiver we draft will do a darn thing until we get a qb. I like Whaley and until someone tells me who would be a better option at head coach I'd say stick with Ryan one more year. Edited December 20, 2016 by DallasMac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanOverChin Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 For continuity sake I'd like to see the Bills stick with both Whaley and Ryan for at least one more year. Next year there will be a lot of vet FA QBs available as well as several good QBs to choose from in the draft. I see them dropping Manuel, but keeping C. Jones. Then signing or trading for a vet QB while also drafting a QB. I don't see them paying TT a guaranteed $30M, which is what he will be due in Mar. 2017. TT is more of a tease than anything else. The Bills had the worst passing offense in the league w/ TT at QB. He's just not good enough to compete with the NE's and Pittsburgh's of the world. Let's see what happens when the team can field all of these guys from Day 1: New vet QB (maybe Romo?), Watkins, Dareus, Sh. Lawson, Ragland. Needs: Proven vet QB, big/dominant WR, second versatile TE, shutdown CB, talented SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Every year before the season starts, people are lamenting how this years schedule will be tough, then the season plays out and teams everyone thinks will be going to the Super Bowl end up in last place and other teams come out of no where to become winners. So to worry about next seasons schedule now is a waste of time and energy and proves nothing. We will have a better sense next year because this year's schedule turned out to be fairly easy. I think we have the talent of a .500 team, no better, and much of the "talent" was acquired through free agency (McCoy, Clay and Taylor) rather than through the draft. Whaley needs to go (and so does Ryan) to start fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 The way I see it... Defense was stout in 2014, then a scheme change happened in 2015 and the defense fell apart. The players were almost exactly the same. This points to coaching being the problem. Offense was stagnant in 2014, got some new players and a new OC, and now the offense puts up a lot more points. This could be either the players or the scheme, or both, either way, odds are that the GM was at least partially responsible for the improvement. I say Rex is more the problem, than Whaley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 The way I see it... Defense was stout in 2014, then a scheme change happened in 2015 and the defense fell apart. The players were almost exactly the same. This points to coaching being the problem. Offense was stagnant in 2014, got some new players and a new OC, and now the offense puts up a lot more points. This could be either the players or the scheme, or both, either way, odds are that the GM was at least partially responsible for the improvement. I say Rex is more the problem, than Whaley. Pretty much nailed it. As another poster put it, we had an offensive head coach whose offense sucked (Marrone) and a defensive head coach (Rex) whose defense sucks. But the talent has been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I wonder when their relationship fell apart. Marrone did not get on with Whaley either. Whaley believes in his acquisitions, to a fault. EJ the worst example........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Marrone did not get on with Whaley either. Whaley believes in his acquisitions, to a fault. EJ the worst example........ Fact: Whaley is the first GM to ever believe in a player he drafted! Fire him now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasMac Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Marrone did not get on with Whaley either. Whaley believes in his acquisitions, to a fault. EJ the worst example........ Buddy Nix drafted Ej. Just bc Whaley stuck by his predecessor doesn't mean he made the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Buddy Nix drafted Ej. Just bc Whaley stuck by his predecessor doesn't mean he made the pick. In fairness, Whaley was a fan of EJ. And who cares? They drafted a qb and it didn't work out like 95% of qbs don't, I still think he needed more than 14 games and playing Orton was a giant waste of time but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasMac Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 In fairness, Whaley was a fan of EJ. And who cares? They drafted a qb and it didn't work out like 95% of qbs don't, I still think he needed more than 14 games and playing Orton was a giant waste of time but whatever. Agree completely though I was never a fan of Ej at Fsu. We drafted him and I hoped for the best but saw the same things that made me believe he was a poor choice. I just don't agree with the Whaley haters using Ej as an excuse to get rid of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Agree completely though I was never a fan of Ej at Fsu. We drafted him and I hoped for the best but saw the same things that made me believe he was a poor choice. I just don't agree with the Whaley haters using Ej as an excuse to get rid of him. That's fair but it's a stupid reason to want to get rid of Whaley in the first place. Like at how many Qbs Seattle had before Wilson (trade for Whitehurst, Jackson, Matt Flynn big FA deal). It's so hard to find a qb so you are going to make some mistakes along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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