plenzmd1 Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) Probably Marvin Lewis and the Bengals. Year Record 2003 8-8 2004 8-8 2005 11-5 2006 8-8 2007 7-9 2008 4-11-1 2009 10-6 2010 4-12 2011 9-7 2012 10-6 2013 11-5 2014 10-5-1 2015 12-4 2016 5-7-1 Thought of him, but Couple of arguments 1) no playoff wins in 15 years...so yes some success in terms of getting to the playoffs, but zero success in actually winning something. 2) record in the 3 years immedialtly before Marvin was hired..6-10, 4-12, 2-14...Decade of the 90's record was 52-108 8-8 seasons were like Manna from heaven ! Rex inherited a 8-7 team... As i am now obsessed with this argument, this may be the greatest fallacy in all of sports, at least when it pertains to the NFL. Jeff Fisher is an interesting one, pretty much .500 first 4 years, but dealt with the franchise move in there as well. Hoodie had a losing record first two at Browns is next closest really. Edited December 13, 2016 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 argh...good call. Course one of those years they were in the playoffs at 7-9 LOL. The Pats thing drives me nuts., how they are considered the model franchise with this great "continuity" . Just looked at Carrol's record there.. 10-6 Playoffs 9-7 Playoffs 8-8 Fired So 27-21, gets fired, but they are a model franchise. No, they knew they could do better, and obviously did. To be fair the year before Carrol got there they went 11-5 and went to the Super Bowl with Parcells. Carrols first year they lose in the divisional round, 2nd year they lose in the WC round and his final year they miss the playoffs and finish 5th in the AFC East. It was a steady downward trend, in both record and playoff performance, even if it doesnt look that bad in the rearview mirror. Of course, during Belichick's first season they won 5 games. Then the miracle happens early in his 2nd season and the rest is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 To be fair the year before Carrol got there they went 11-5 and went to the Super Bowl with Parcells. Carrols first year they lose in the divisional round, 2nd year they lose in the WC round and his final year they miss the playoffs and finish 5th in the AFC East. It was a steady downward trend, in both record and playoff performance, even if it doesnt look that bad in the rearview mirror. Of course, during Belichick's first season they won 5 games. Then the miracle happens early in his 2nd season and the rest is history. Totally agree...and the Pats did the right thing. But if the Bills fire Rex , you are going to hear the same old tired argument of "they will never win cause they have no continuity"...no, they never win cause they hire the wrong coaches...and need to keep swinging to they find the right ones...just like the Pats did by firing Carroll with a winning record and hiring hoodie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Totally agree...and the Pats did the right thing. But if the Bills fire Rex , you are going to hear the same old tired argument of "they will never win cause they have no continuity"...no, they never win cause they hire the wrong coaches...and need to keep swinging to they find the right ones...just like the Pats did by firing Carroll with a winning record and hiring hoodie. In general though, I think a HC should get a min of three years to turn things around. If a team keeps firing HCs over and over they'll just keep spinning their wheels. Granted, I really dislike what Rex has done and Im willing to waive my 3 year rule on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Its just to obvious that Rex is a bad coach, he was a bad hire. Having your best players play out of position just to use your scheme is idiotic. His press conferences after years of failure has become an annoyance. He and the train whistle need to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I am a big Red Sox fan and have followed Theo Epstein's moves pretty closely going back a while. He has now brought a championship to the Cubs after doing it in Boston...which means the guy can basically walk on water. One thing I always noted about how the Red Sox did business during his tenure there was that they were huge wheeler dealers. In other words, they were constantly expecting excellence and the ability to win the World Series..and constantly making huge blockbuster deals, moving pieces around, to maintain a level of excellence. A guiding principle in all that was being married to absolutely NO ONE and not being afraid to undo this year's "huge move" next year when it became pretty obvious the move didn't work. Big blockbuster deals don't happen in the NFL. It's a whole different animal then baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 In general though, I think a HC should get a min of three years to turn things around. If a team keeps firing HCs over and over they'll just keep spinning their wheels. Granted, I really dislike what Rex has done and Im willing to waive my 3 year rule on this one. I did as well...but I have spent the last 4 hours going through records...and you can really see it either happens year 2, or it just does not happen for the vast majority of coaches. Now, there are exceptions where year 1 was a total re-build, year two huge improvement but still under 500, and then year 3 playoffs..Jimmy Johnson fits there. But so few and far between...we have just become programmed to this idea of "continuity", but unless i am missing something the results do not support the continuity argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 (edited) Big blockbuster deals don't happen in the NFL. It's a whole different animal then baseball. You've missed the point entirely. You are batting 1000 today! Edited December 13, 2016 by Fadingpain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 BB was a great D coordinator... As we know all too well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Tom Landry and the Dallas Cowboys. He had 5 losing seasons to start. Went .500 in his 6th season and finally starting winning in his 7th season. This was in the early 60s. I don't think anybody has that kind of patience anymore. Not even El Pegula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 Tom Landry and the Dallas Cowboys. He had 5 losing seasons to start. Went .500 in his 6th season and finally starting winning in his 7th season. This was in the early 60s. I don't think anybody has that kind of patience anymore. Not even El Pegula. different era completely...that's why i went back to 90... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 If Rex wins out and the team plays fairly well I think then you have to consider keeping Rex. Winning out even against 2 awful teams and another decent team missing their QB won't prove much unless the Bills craft out a playoff birth somehow. The only thing it would prove is that the team still plays hard for Rex and that he hasn't lost the locker room. The defensive performances are telling so even if the Bills win out at 9-7 you could still make a case for firing Rex. But at 9-7 winning out you have to at least consider keeping Rex for one more do or die year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 As we know all too well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 If you make a poor decision continuity will lead to continued failure. Rex Ryan=continued failure Tyrod Taylor=continued failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 so , trying to bring this back around LOL. The argument i keep hearing to keep Rex (except for Alpha, who makes several good points) is always the all encompassing "keep him for continuity..good teams always have continuity"... my contention is that the teams that have continuity have it because the coaches won early...so i am trying to find example where that may not be the case. Pete Carrol two years at 7-9 was a great example. I can think of a ton of places where the converse is true..keeping a coach for "continuity" sake that just gets fired later ... Dick Vermeil, Rams. Jeff Fisher, Titans. Jimmy Johnson, Dallas. Ron Rivera, Carolina. Mike Holmgren, Seahawks. uh...Marv freakin' Levy, Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samwell Tarly Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 If you make a poor decision continuity will lead to continued failure. Rex Ryan=continued failure Tyrod Taylor=continued failure Continuity is only desirable when it's successful continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 (edited) I am a big Red Sox fan and have followed Theo Epstein's moves pretty closely going back a while. He has now brought a championship to the Cubs after doing it in Boston...which means the guy can basically walk on water. One thing I always noted about how the Red Sox did business during his tenure there was that they were huge wheeler dealers. In other words, they were constantly expecting excellence and the ability to win the World Series..and constantly making huge blockbuster deals, moving pieces around, to maintain a level of excellence. A guiding principle in all that was being married to absolutely NO ONE and not being afraid to undo this year's "huge move" next year when it became pretty obvious the move didn't work. Bill B. in New England is just the same. Look at the big name turnover they have had over the years, particularly on defense...and the machine just keeps running. Welker leaves, find 2 guys just like him and keep the machine running... Sorry to go off on a tangent relative to your main point, but I would argue "continuity" at least in terms of roster has nothing to do with being a well run franchise. Also, the idea for continuity with coaching and front office is to get high quality and then keep it. if you don't have it in the first place, continuity has no value Boom 💥 Edited December 13, 2016 by Over 28 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 The argument for continuity boils down to this: does Pegula believe in the culture and direction that Rex is working to install in his organization? Does he believe it can be successful and sustainable? There may be any number of reasons that Pegula would answer no. But, if his answer is yes, then continuity is the right decision. Pandering to the fans—for what exactly? selling more inventory?—is the wrong decision and just perpetuates the culture of treading water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrivefourfive Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I'm gonna continue to watch Any Given Sunday and pretend the Bills will reach out to Al Pacino to coach the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 (edited) Here is my question...can anyone remember a coach or team that had a losing or .500 record in first two years, or a second year that was not trending up, that then went on to huge success in years 3-7 etc by staying with same coach? I've got a few. 1.Pete Carroll, Seattle Seahawks - The Seahawks were 7-9 the first 2 seasons. Hawks decided to stay with Sneaky Pete and it worked out. 2. Marvin Lewis, Bengals - After several bad seasons, Marv led the Bengals to 5 straight playoffs playing InThe same division with PItt and Baltimore. 3. Tom Landry, Dallas Cowboys - Tom started with 5 losing seasons and us now in the HOF. His 20 straight winning seasons in a row Bill Bellyache us still chasing. I don't like some of the things Rex does. But is having 4 coaches in 6 years and 5 in the last 8 years really the way to build a winner? It also makes it really hard to convince a quality coach to come here. Edited December 13, 2016 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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