Big Gun Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 He did those basic things very well up until the middle of the 3rd QTR when the Raiders shut down the run game and started forcing the Bills to throw. I contend the Bills offensive coaches should have found a way to keep moving the chains with the run game. ie, coaches! The offense failed... the QB failed! The defense failed... the pass rush failed! The special teams! The coaches failed! The entire team failed! Those facts won't deter your focus on the QB though! TT only did the basics in the 1st, then proceeded to siht the bed the rest of the game, that's not even up for discussion. Maybe football is new to you but the QB is the straw that stirs the drink. Putrid QB play drags everybody down and down a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) Lol. Again, it was the offenses fault the defense couldn't get off the field? Yes, see when the offense scores a TD to go up 8 right after a quarter break, then gets the ball back after 3 plays to score on a 10 play 4+ minute drive to go up 15, how is a defense expected to get a stop? They were so gassed. Edited December 5, 2016 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumbleAndHungry Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 if tyrod could manage a game he wouldn't have pulled a disappearing act being up by 15 half way through the 3rd quarter. I know the defense rolled over but going 3and out three straight times, throwing a pick and fumbling puts the defense in a tough spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Yes, that single 3 and out really broke their back on the next TD drive. I haven't heard a single person make anything that even remotely resembles this point. I said these a few posts back. But it gets ignored by Big Cat for some odd reason... The only thing that's being ignored here my repeated critiques of the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) I haven't heard a single person make anything that even remotely resembles this point. The only thing that's being ignored here my repeated critiques of the defense. Can you explain how complementary football applies to this? Yes, see when the offense scores a TD to go up 8 right after a quarter break, then gets the ball back after 3 plays to score on a 10 play 4+ minute drive to go up 15, how is a defense expected to get a stop? They were so gassed. Edited December 5, 2016 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 You said something along the lines of the defense allowing 80% of the opposing teams average YPG would be a good measure. It was something like that. You look it up. You wrote it. In the mean time when do you think the momentum changed yesterday? Could it have been the defense giving up a 14 second touchdown drive right after we went up 15. Did the crowd become more of a factor then? Right, that's what spawned the heat maps. I will gladly remake those for 2016. And it was 85% of the season average excluding the game against the Bills. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that giving up a quick TD against Oakland was either: bad or acceptable. It was neither of those things. And if you can't begin to understand why or at least let your brain consider the area in between, then this conversation is meaningless. Scoring quickly is what the Raiders do. We held them in check. They scored quickly. We should have done more to prevent that from happening. That STARTS with not letting them have the ball right back again. And then again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 It was a team effort... everyone failed from that point on in the game. Couldnt run, couldnt pass, couldn't catch, couldn't rush the passer, couldn't cover anyone, couldn't coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 It's the coaching. Horrid play calling all the way around. Sad: Time for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Right, that's what spawned the heat maps. I will gladly remake those for 2016. And it was 85% of the season average excluding the game against the Bills. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that giving up a quick TD against Oakland was either: bad or acceptable. It was neither of those things. And if you can't begin to understand why or at least let your brain consider the area in between, then this conversation is meaningless. Scoring quickly is what the Raiders do. We held them in check. They scored quickly. We should have done more to prevent that from happening. That STARTS with not letting them have the ball right back again. And then again. In the first half the offense was ok. They should have put up more points, but they moved the ball on multiple drives. The defense by contrast was lucky. There is no denying that. There were dropped balls and penalties and various drive stalkers that the Raiders self inflicted. The defense played poorly almost all day. They could have given up 50+ very easily. If you go back to your heat map for the defense and it measures at a temperature anything different than a tire fire, then your model is screwed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Can you explain how complementary football applies to this? Yes, see when the offense scores a TD to go up 8 right after a quarter break, then gets the ball back after 3 plays to score on a 10 play 4+ minute drive to go up 15, how is a defense expected to get a stop? They were so gassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 In the first half the offense was ok. They should have put up more points, but they moved the ball on multiple drives. The defense by contrast was lucky. There is no denying that. There were dropped balls and penalties and various drive stalkers that the Raiders self inflicted. The defense played poorly almost all day. They could have given up 50+ very easily. If you go back to your heat map for the defense and it measures at a temperature anything different than a tire fire, then your model is screwed up. Haha, model is based on the metrics you just called reasonable. I agree the offense was abysmal and didn't help the defense one bit after they went up 24-9. The defense was also abysmal in that Carr was pretty much playing pitch and catch. Easy as it gets. I think the scheme and coaching is a big part of that problem. Carr did to our pathetic secondary what he's been doing to secondaries of all stripes, all season. This is not a defense of the scheme, so do not take it as such. It's an acknowledgement that good players some times play good games. Carr's been doing a lot of that this year. And the performance from our secondary was consistent with the poor play we've come to expect. Some of that might be scheme. But you can't deny the utter lack of talent back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Lol. Again, it was the offenses fault the defense couldn't get off the field? Oh , the D got off the field quickly after giving up TDs . The game was then a shootout and the Bills discovered they only had a pea shooter to bring to battle. The Raiders already knew that and forced the issue. Their team wins plenty of games with a suspect secondary because they have a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepsicat17 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Odd thing about the roster for our defense is that even after Rex brought in "his" kind of guys we still have a better 4-3 roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Yes, see when the offense scores a TD to go up 8 right after a quarter break, then gets the ball back after 3 plays to score on a 10 play 4+ minute drive to go up 15, how is a defense expected to get a stop? They were so gassed. Not to mention the Raiders offense went no huddle/hurry up for a bit in that stretch to gas the defense even more, and it worked to a T for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 1. Haha, model is based on the metrics you just called reasonable. 2. Carr did to our pathetic secondary what he's been doing to secondaries of all stripes, all season. This is not a defense of the scheme, so do not take it as such. It's an acknowledgement that good players some times play good games. Carr's been doing a lot of that this year. And the performance from our secondary was consistent with the poor play we've come to expect. Some of that might be scheme. But you can't deny the utter lack of talent back there. 1. I'm just predicting the results, 2. Which part of our defense will you call pathetic next year? Last year it was Mario, so we drafted 3 front 7 superstars....this year it is the secondary. At any point do you wonder about a scheme that hasn't worked in almost a decade? We have injuries with Williams and Darby gone for sure but Gilmore has talent. There is no denying that he does. Ryan friggin Fitzpatrick beat us like a drum because the scheme made it easy. It might happen a lot with Carr but it does not happen a lot for Fitz. Up next Ben. Do you think he'll be able to decipher Rex's master plan right away or will it take until the middle of the first quarter. Rex has to give up control of the defense to a completely outside brand new DC or things will never work. I really do think Rex might be a decent HC if he can be hands off. Of course we'll have to re-tool because players like Ragland, who Rex sees as Dick Butkus, do not fit in the NFL any more. Don't get me wrong, from seeing Ragland play in college he looked like a potential HOFer. If he played when Butkus played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 and Tyrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 The defense is middling at best, but it certainly doesn't help them when our offense goes 3 and out multiple times in a row. It's a team game, and this team has multiple warts to zap. After all these seasons we're just down to scar tissue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Carr, Winston, and Mariota. Get the right QB and things can turn around in a heartbeat. @FourVerts raiders, bucs, and titans are in the playoff hunt after having 3 of the top 4 picks in the 2015 draft. really quick turnarounds. But...but...but ..."the college game is ruining NFL QBs!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 TT only did the basics in the 1st, then proceeded to siht the bed the rest of the game, that's not even up for discussion. Maybe football is new to you but the QB is the straw that stirs the drink. Putrid QB play drags everybody down and down a lot. C'mon man, new to football, really? I admitted that the Bills QB had a hand in the loss to the Raiders and I also think the coaches and defense played their stinky parts too. It was the failure of the entire Buffalo Bills team once they lost the momentum of the game halfway through the third quarter. The offense, defense, special team along with the coaches all stunk it up. I don't know which is more comical. The Bills fans that refuse to contain their hate for the QB or the fan that can't contain his love for Rex Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 The Defense does mostly suck...The secondary is terrible (kinda like what happened with the Jets after Revis left...Coincidence?)... But the QB position is the #1 problem with the Bills...Don't kid yourself... Even with Revis. Both with the Jets & with the Bills, Rex always seems to go into a shell & play a soft D especially at the end of the half or the game. He loves the 3 man rush/drop8 into coverage. What ever happened to his so called exotic zone blitzing? The 3 man rush in the Red Zone against a good QB doesn't seem to me to be a good strategy. He coaches not to lose. What the heck is he afraid of? I know that we could use better QB play, but poor Defensive scheming goes directly to coaching & has been more responsible than the O for our poor record. Also, perhaps those, who are complaining that the D was tired because the Offense had 3 & outs, could tell me why they are so damn tired. The Bills had a couple of clock eating drives where the D was sitting on their butts resting. Or doesn't that count because they only occurred during the 1st 3 quarters? I agree with those who say we need better QB play, but the genius & his D leave a lot to be desired. All imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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