Mr. WEO Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Last year he was holding the trophy. I struggled with that one...but concluded that a first ballot HOF QB likely was not a caretaker in the spirit it was brought up. The Broncos current caretaker will never be holding that trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 How many times do we recycle the same poll and get the same landslide results before the Vocal minority gives up.. Insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Last year he was holding the trophy. Now all we need is Von Miller and Talib and we can win a game w crap qb play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I voted "other," because I'm hoping the other Tyrod Taylor plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 If the goal here is to float EJ Manual to the top of the list then change the poll to "Which QB will never be a future fulltime starter in the NFL" Bang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Ej... I think you get a lot of the same. Minus the speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Easy vote for me. TT is the QB at least until the Bills are eliminated from the playoffs. At that point see what makes sense preparing for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 My issue is that Goodwin and Harvin were getting pushed around off their routes a ton in bump and run. This will throw timing off - and generally force you to check down. We needed to go deep to make them pay. Very true. But he was missing checks to Clay over the middle and a few other wide open receivers. Its not an elite wr crew but you have to throw some of those balls. Can't dispute that Cardale probably isn't ready yet, but I think there's a decent chance he would outperform TT right now. He seems to be more accurate and have better touch on short routes than TT does, and he definitely won't panic and bail on a clean pocket like TT loves to do. Cardale will probably turn the ball over more, but I bet he would put more points on the board, too. And with a rookie if this proved to be even remotely true. Cardale would be the move. I want a qb with enough confidence to go out make mistakes and learn. If you think thats Cardale next year should be his year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) Did Cardale light up the preseason like Dak did? Obviously, he didn't so that comparison isn't really apples to apples. Cardale is a project who literally wasnt ready to be the starter in college and lost his job because of it. And lets not forget, the Dak Prescotts of the NFL dont come around very often. Its very rare a QB comes into the league and has the kind of success he has had. Its also very rare a young QB comes into one of the best offensive lines of the last decade, and probably the best one along with a great TE, WR, and studly stable of running backs. Our offense is not the Cowboys which is loaded around Dak...and Cardale is not Dak. 100% guarantee that Cardale will not play this year while we are in contention for playoffs without injuries to both TT and EJ. And the same people calling for him to start will be the same people demanding he gets cut if he somehow made it into a game because he would fail due to not being ready and not enough playmakers around him to help. What a crock... I've seen every Dallas game so far, including pre-season and have LOST COUNT of Dak's bad throws... There are TONS of them... Does he suck? -Clearly not...The lesson here, is that young players WON'T ALWAYS LOOK GOOD... Dak is a fantastic young player who's finding his way as a pro... Cardale should be afforded the same opportunity. Edited November 23, 2016 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 What a crock... I've seen every Dallas game so far, including pre-season and have LOST COUNT of Dak's bad throws... There are TONS of them... Does he suck? -Clearly not...The lesson here, is that young players WON'T ALWAYS LOOK GOOD... Dak is a fantastic young player who's finding his way as a pro... Cardale should be afforded the same opportunity. Now let's see how many Bad throws Dak actually throws by a site that actually logs that stuff and has same grading criteria for every QB. He has a 15.19% Bad throw percentage just above Tom Brady. Put him with the 14th overall lowest % http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-bad-pass-percentage/2016/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) Now let's see how many Bad throws Dak actually throws by a site that actually logs that stuff and has same grading criteria for every QB. He has a 15.19% Bad throw percentage just above Tom Brady. Put him with the 14th overall lowest % http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-bad-pass-percentage/2016/ This is exactly why we should be playing Cardale.... We could have the next great NFL arm on the bench, and not even know it.... Btw, Tyrod is bottom of the frickin' barrel on that list ... Too many schitty throws for a 6-year vet... What does he average? 193 passing YPG in 10 games? -Brady averages 319 in just 6 games... Prescott, 264, and they pretty much threw him in WET... How long should we continue accepting the bare minimum as fans? Edited November 23, 2016 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) Now let's see how many Bad throws Dak actually throws by a site that actually logs that stuff and has same grading criteria for every QB. He has a 15.19% Bad throw percentage just above Tom Brady. Put him with the 14th overall lowest % http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-bad-pass-percentage/2016/ I love these sorts of stats, and they really do make the discussion interesting. That being said, their pure objectivity can be deceiving, and no one should be too quick to draw conclusions from these things. Obviously, there are variables missing. For example, QBs are more likely to make a bad throw when they have poor protection and are more likely to have DEs bearing down on them. Ryan Tannehill is #5 on this list. In the end, subjectivity matters. Edited November 24, 2016 by Rocky Landing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 As long as we are not eliminated from post season play you have to go with the experienced hand (Tyrod) obviously. If/when we are eliminated and assuming Tyrod fails to improve I would start Cardale. That is unlikely to happen though because they need to give Tyrod his shot and given his contractual situation the more they see of him the better. I expect that even if his performance continues to flatline, Rex will back him to Pegs and Whaley. I defer to posters who closely follow Ohio State so there is little doubt that Cardale is raw and has big holes in his game. He looks to me to have a pretty good head on his shoulders though so I doubt that playing in a few games at season's end would hamper his development. What it would do though is give him some reps and live action experience that IMO could only help him progress. It would also give everyone interested in the team, Pegs, Whaley, the coaches and, yes, the fans, a chance to start evaluating him. The sample size is ridiculously small, but I saw him make a couple of throws in preseason that all evidence would suggest Tyrod is simply unable to do. They were eye popping throws and as good as any you will see a franchise guy make (and it really doesn't matter that he was going against players who may now be flipping burgers). His footwork is often not what you would want to see but if memory serves some of the throws were still good because, though inexperienced, he was reacting quickly as a result of good field vision (he really didn't have time to set up properly, though admittedly ideally he should have) and his ridiculous arm strength compensated for poor mechanics. If he were to see the field you would have to limit the playbook but if not asked to do too much he could perhaps be effective. Not writing off Tyrod by any means and I think that his progression might be hindered by gameplans the coaches think give us the best chance of winning. Nobody wants turnovers but if you don't take chances you are a lot easier to defend. The real problem though may well be that he is not equiped to take those chances with an acceptable risk/reward profile. If that is the case, they have no business exercising that option. Sign a vet and make sure you think hard about drafting QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Once we're eliminated, Cardale should be playing. But Rex won't do it because he has a better chance of winning games with a more experienced quarterback. And he wants to win a few because it will make him look better once he's fired. Insofar as EJ goes, fogetit. Well we can have owner dictate who will be QB but that has been criticized extensively in past. Rex could decide to give the rookie some snaps but some snapping turtles with PMS will use that as way to bash him even if they agree with that approach. It Bills have decided to NOT pick up TT's option it is a valid strategy but as long as TT is healthy and they are considering picking up option every game is another data point in evaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 If we want to win 1. Cardale Jones 2. Tyrod Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 9 votes for EJ Yes and they say smoking MJ does not affect mental acuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I do think the landscape of the NFL has changed rather dramatically in just the last few seasons. A couple of years ago you needed a QB or you may as well not show up. Very good to great QBs were able to raise rather mediocre teams into playoff contenders. But that seems to have shifted to the point where guys like Rodgers and Roethlisberger are on middling teams because their defenses are putrid and other defenses are able to out-athlete or out-scheme their offenses. I think more than ever you can build a very good football team around a "caretaker" QB, my biggest concern with TT moving forward is his contract goes from being a bargain to a major deal next year, I think the decision is much less "is Tyrod a better choice than player X" and much more "are we better off with paying a "step down" (or a draft pick) QB a fraction of Tyrod's contract and using the salary cap elsewhere"? Where teams really get into trouble is the contract that Tyrod will step into soon, ie paying a non-franchise QB at the level of a franchise QB. Paying Flacco has caused a ripple down talent drain in Baltimore. That's my biggest concern with TT. I think you could put Rodgers or Roethlisberger onto this team and we still wouldn't be able to sling it around the yard averaging 30+ PPG simply because we don't have the horses at WR to accomplish that. But I do think we can make some improvements to the defense and ratchet it up another level, improve the offensive line slightly more to make the run game better while paying a QB a fraction of Tyrod's contract and be as good if not better. This post reflects my opinion as well. When the QB absorbs more of the salary cap (and yes I know it is inflating faster than the national debt) he needs to make more of an impact and I cannot see TT doing that next year. TT certainly has limitations based on the WR set he has especially with WR Byrd Watkins not playing due to foot issues but more limitations based on what he can do. Those are the same people that voted for Jill Stein. They also prefer Kia to Ferrari, Arbor Day to Christmas and kale to ice cream. That is fine as long as they do not prefer wine and cheese served with their PSL's - I can't stand those guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 If we want to win 1. Cardale Jones 2. Tyrod Taylor Have you ever seen Cardale Jones play? Honest question for everyone supporting Cardale... I love Cardale but he is not even close to ready to compete in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Our offense is not the Cowboys which is loaded around Dak...and Cardale is not Dak. 100% guarantee that Cardale will not play this year while we are in contention for playoffs without injuries to both TT and EJ. And the same people calling for him to start will be the same people demanding he gets cut if he somehow made it into a game because he would fail due to not being ready and not enough playmakers around him to help. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) I like TT a lot, as you know, but I'd like to see TT's skills in a bigger, taller body as I am not sure TT can actually see the field that well as he "plays small". That bigger taller TT is CJ, but it will be 2018 before we see him. OBD in a big pickle here. I still just wonder if they pass on the TT 27mil and go with EJ for a year until CJ is ready. That way they can keep the rest of the roster together and also make it better. Hell, we're a 100% run game and defense team with TT right now and will probably end up 10-6 or 9-7, it almost doesn't matter who the QB is . I'd rather keep trying other big tall rocket arm QBs until we get one who can play at least to TT's current level. That means giving up on 2017, though, although I for one think EJ can play the Trent Dilfer role just fine. Or else TT needs to grow about 4 inches and add 20 lbs. Edited November 25, 2016 by 8and8-->NoMore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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