26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Whaley was the one doing all of the qb scouting that year: manuel, barkley, etc. It was definitely whaley's pick. But ya know, i really don't even fault him for it: they HAD to take a shot on a qb given their dire situation, and it's not as if any of the other guys from that draft are better than manuel. It's ok to say simultaneously that a) manuel was mostly whaley's pick (evidenced by his extreme-to-the-point-self-defeating defense of the player in the past couple of years); b) manuel isn't good; and c) it wasn't a terrible pick at all given that you really have to roll the dice on a qb if you don't have one and that none of the other draftees from that year were better than him. The moral here: initially bad threads can take on a life of their own and improve (in organic fashion). Nix set the agenda to find a "Franchise QB" for the team before he left. That IMO is what led to the selection of EJ as a 1st round pick in the 2013 draft. Whaley and the scouts job was to identify who they believed was the best choice among those prospects in a very bad class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Nix set the agenda to find a "Franchise QB" for the team before he left. That IMO is what led to the selection of EJ as a 1st round pick in the 2013 draft. Whaley and the scouts job was to identify who they believed was the best choice among those prospects in a very bad class. I don't think Nix was saying anything bold or revelatory here--everyone in the organization with one quarter of a brain knew the Bills desperately needed a QB. Kind of an obvious and predictable "agenda," don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I don't think Nix was saying anything bold or revelatory here--everyone in the organization with one quarter of a brain knew the Bills desperately needed a QB. Kind of an obvious and predictable "agenda," don't you think? The agenda I find no fault with. It's forcing a pick top reach for a QB prospect who lacks a 1st round grade that I take issue with. They traded down once in 2013 and should have done it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 The agenda I find no fault with. It's forcing a pick top reach for a QB prospect who lacks a 1st round grade that I take issue with. They traded down once in 2013 and should have done it again. I think that's right. You'd need a trade partner though. I can't remember if that draft was a good one or if there were teams clamoring to move up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaNole3 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 If were being honest here. Outside of maybe 1 or 2 good FA pickups his drafts and personnel decisions have been below average. I see people every day claiming how he is one of the "best GM's in football". What a load of crap. What exactly has this guy done to get that title? Idc what you say, he drafted EJ. Picking a 1st round QB in possibly the worst QB class in the last 15 years was awful decision making. He then supported EJ and tried to get him weapons, that ended up failing big time. Watkins has been an injury prone nightmare. His 2016 draft has already had 2 guys out for the year and 1 guy who will miss half. Karlos williams was a disaster. Darby has prob been his best pick but he has only had 1 good season. Our WR depth and oline depth is a complete joke, he has done NOTHING to address this so far. Sammy went into training camp injured and we still didn't pick anyone up. Clay has been a waste of money, and McCoy is aging fast. Whaley is not the guy that should be staying with this team for the future. We are 1-2 soon to be 1-3 and does anyone really see this team making the playoffs this year? What do we even have to look forward to? Does anyone trust this guy picking another QB in the draft? B/c I don't. Even before Rex, Whaley should be gone. New GM can find his own staff and scouts. Darby should of at least been in 4 pro bowls by now. What a bust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 The agenda I find no fault with. It's forcing a pick top reach for a QB prospect who lacks a 1st round grade that I take issue with. They traded down once in 2013 and should have done it again. Too often teams are left reaching for a QB because they have forced themselves into a corner over the previous years. The Bills were no different that year. I am glad we got EJ in a trade-down. No way for us to ever know, but he may have been gone by the time we picked again, to a team equally desperate for a QB. For all the trading that Whaley doee, he should have traded for Alex Smith and let EJ develop at his own pace. That was the mistake in my mind. BTW, I also think that picking Cardale Jones was the type of move that the Bills should have been doing a long time back. Using a mid round pick for a prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 So tired of these posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 builds a top 5 4-3 defense and then has a 3-4 bad coach pushed down his throat. now has to rebuild that defense and deal with the bad coach. i would agree that he needs an assistan gm that can scout offensive players better but imo he might be one of the best defensive drafters outside of elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Wrong. I was going to go on a rant, but you summed it up with one word. Thanks, K-9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Nix set the agenda to find a "Franchise QB" for the team before he left. That IMO is what led to the selection of EJ as a 1st round pick in the 2013 draft. Whaley and the scouts job was to identify who they believed was the biest choice among those prospects in a very bad class. Whaley did a good job in ranking the qbs in that draft year.But the problem, as you indicated, is that the failing was to over value EJ relative to where he was drafted. The other lesser ranked qbs were drafted by their respective teams in the range where they should have been. That wasn't the case with the Manuel selection. None of us know what grade Whaley placed on EJ and whether Whaley agreed and encouraged Nix to take him in the first round. If he did then DW gave bad advice, and if not, then he acted properly as a subordinate to the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Is a 24-27 record as GM and having the most resources to work with in franchise history irrational? Even if the record is conceded to be his alone, it qualifies him as middling/average. Factor in a coaching resignation and a complete rebuild of a defense that was really good to fit a new coaching regime and I'd say mediocre with a losing record is on target. So go ahead and call for his head, but it better not be in lieu of a new mediocre GM. (John Elway seemed content last I read) because Whaley is so early in his career he still might figure it out. What won't help is adding a re-tread has been who has already peaked or worse yet, a buddy with a friendly face that was good at something else. (Marv) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Was your first sentence a typo?Ha yes, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) I cant help but think that we have 1 to 20 too many threads about Whaley..... Edited October 1, 2016 by fansince88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I cant help but think that we have 1 to 20 too many threads about Whaley..... But how can you not want to read endless "Whaley is horrible because I say so" tirades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 People are lazy and refuse to use the search function. I don't mind "Fire Rex" and "Fire Whaley" or "Fire the Midget" but KEEP THEM IN ONE THREAD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 The debate, if there is one, will be answered very shortly. If the Whaley / Rex Ryan / TTaylor Bills CAN'T beat the Patriots without Brady, the season is another loss at then 1-3 : Ryan then needs to go as does Whaley at their collective efforts will be not enough. Whaley missing on 2 Head Coaches. Whaley missing on 2 QBs. Whaley missing on picks. Whaley handing out the wrong contracts to the wrong people. IF they win and go on to make the playoffs, give 1 more year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Stay the course. Bad teams fire coaches/GMs annually. Lets fix this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 The debate, if there is one, will be answered very shortly. If the Whaley / Rex Ryan / TTaylor Bills CAN'T beat the Patriots without Brady, the season is another loss at then 1-3 : Ryan then needs to go as does Whaley at their collective efforts will be not enough. Whaley missing on 2 Head Coaches. Whaley missing on 2 QBs. Whaley missing on picks. Whaley handing out the wrong contracts to the wrong people. IF they win and go on to make the playoffs, give 1 more year. Whaley did not pick Marrone or Rex. It amazes me that you are this uninformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Whaley did not pick Marrone or Rex. It amazes me that you are this uninformed. So the Peg's selected R Ryan all by themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 So the Peg's selected R Ryan all by themselves? Ryan and Whaley both report directly to Pegs. The Rex hiring was the Pegulas call with a big recommendation from Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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