Williams speech/Alton/Philando/Dallas shootings

[unbillievable]

African Americans make up less than 13% of the population, yet comprise 37% of the 2.2 million male prisoners in jails right now. This didn't happen because there's a perception of an unequal playing field. It happened because there has been a systemic use of police and the judicial system to target and detain minorities.

 

Do you believe a higher percentage of black people are in jail because of racism, or that they commit more crimes than other races? Do you support a race quota based law enforcement system like the Democrats have proposed?

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

What exactly do you mean by this? Do you agree that their perspective is wrong then? Do you think that they are justified in thinking the police "want" to kill them?

 

It's not my place to say whether their perception is right or wrong. The folks who are protesting who feel police want to kill them are in the minority compared to those who are protesting the inherent injustice built into the system. There's a difference between those positions, but the focus in the media is always on the more sensational.

 

The truth of the issue is, as always, in the middle.

 

Do you believe a higher percentage of black people are in jail because of racism, or that they commit more crimes than other races?

 

 

Yawn. Strawman argument and question. Nice try though.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yawn. Strawman argument and question. Nice try though.

 

Is it really? I believe there's some statistical evidence to support it.

[unbillievable]

 

Is it really? I believe there's some statistical evidence to support it.

facts get in the way of feelings.

[boyst]

 

But we're not. Not really. The reality is the criminal justice system has been skewed along racial lines since this country was founded. The War on Drugs was a war on black folk and minorities and designed to bloat federal agencies at their expense. The US criminal justice system turned a blind eye while cartels ran (and continue to run) drugs into the inner cities while crafting legislation to designed to unfairly punish the poorest and brownest segments of the population. The sentencing disparity proves this beyond any reasonable doubt. The privatization of prisons only accelerated this.

 

African Americans make up less than 13% of the population, yet comprise 37% of the 2.2 million male prisoners in jails right now. This didn't happen because there's a perception of an unequal playing field. It happened because there has been a systemic use of police and the judicial system to target and detain minorities.

 

Your perception, as a white cop, is vastly different. But it's not representative of the reality for everyone. The reality is we have a system that disproportionately targets and incarcerates minorities... and we've had it since the beginning. That people are aware of this and upset by it shouldn't be surprising to anyone who knows their history.

 

 

Agreed. But that's not what we're discussing, or at least not what I'm discussing. I'm addressing your original question which was how could some believe cops would be out to kill a person. The answer is because it's happened before. You can deny that all you wish, but it's as true as the statement you made above.

 

 

Disagree. It's visual evidence of the issue. It's an ongoing issue, not an isolated historical incident. You asked for a reason why some would believe cops would kill. Those pictures are part of that answer.

 

With all due respect, the amount of ignorant garbage you post around here discredits you from pretty much any discussion involving these issues. Your ignorance is unmatched. And while you claim to be above racism, your insensitivity about these issues can be easily misrepresented as evidence to the contrary.

 

I didn't claim that there was. I said there was. And there's literally 239 years of evidence of this.

 

The scale of these offenses can be debated all you wish. But that doesn't mean they aren't real or didn't happen. And of course these issues shape people's perceptions of police within their community, which was the point. Saying "I don't understand how people could think cops would be out to kill a man" speaks more to the bubble that person is operating in than it does the reality of the world.

 

 

The data is there for you to see. It's clear and unambiguous.

yes but you can clearly see i am just simply an insensitive !@#$ vs a racist !@#$.

 

and the ignorance i spread is 90% intentional and bloviating dribble to rival that of the counter idiot and the 10% is actually ignorance from being a retard.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Is it really? I believe there's some statistical evidence to support it.

 

Statistics that ignore crucial elements of the discussion.

 

facts get in the way of feelings.

 

Agreed. But so does really poor arguments. The one you're trying to make is garbage.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Wtf ? When did a bunch of community college kids get to start making rules ?

May 4, 1970.

 

It is O H I O.

 

I would rather go it alone, even against the bad side of human nature and the sh*tstorm that would ensue than live next to an over-officious, trigger happy jerk hell bent on being hero-worshipped.

 

Maybe it is just me: give me liberty or give me death.

 

And we (yes, I say "we"... We the people) cry about the big bad gubermint coming down on us? That's quite a fancy narrative too? Look no further than the enforcement arm of that gubermint. Let me know who will be the one's carring out the marching orders of any cockamamie law passed out there. A bunch of hypocrites you all are!

Edited July 13, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

Statistics that ignore crucial elements of the discussion.

 

 

Such as what?

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Such as what?

 

Such as the true causes of drug abuse and crime.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

Such as the true causes of drug abuse and crime.

 

Such as?

[unbillievable]

 

Statistics that ignore crucial elements of the discussion.

 

 

Agreed. But so does really poor arguments. The one you're trying to make is garbage.

 

Give up. You have no answer and you know it.

 

You based your entire argument on one premise and it got destroyed by a single fact.

Edited July 13, 2016 by unbillievable

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Such as?

 

It has nothing, zero, zilch to do with race. No race has more of a proclivity for crime or drug abuse than another. It has much more to do with poverty, powerlessness, and desperation.

 

Which, if you haven't been paying attention, this country has done a whopper of a job disenfranchising, dis-empowering, and keeping minorities from having an equal playing field for much of its existence.

 

 

Give up. You have no answer and you know it.

 

You based your entire argument on one premise and it got destroyed by a single fact.

 

Incorrect. Your bunk argument isn't worth addressing because it's inherently dishonest and racist. Crime has nothing to do with race.

...Unless you're writing legislation about sentencing. Then race plays a big role.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Deranged Rhino

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

It has nothing, zero, zilch to do with race. No race has more of a proclivity for crime or drug abuse than another. It has much more to do with poverty, powerlessness, and desperation.

 

Which, if you haven't been paying attention, this country has done a whopper of a job disenfranchising, dis-empowering, and keeping minorities from having an equal playing field over it's existence.

 

 

 

It's not a discussion of root causes of crime. It's a discussion of proportionality of commission of crimes. That's the explanation for higher incarcerations for blacks.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

It's not a discussion of root causes of crime. It's a discussion of proportionality of commission of crimes. That's the explanation for higher incarcerations for blacks.

 

Disagree. That's a faulty conclusion to draw without looking at the entire picture.

With that conclusion you're assuming that every crime and every criminal were policed and prosecuted equally. What we're discussing is an inherent kink in the system which determines not only who is policed and prosecuted, but how they are police and prosecuted. The numbers you and Unbilleivable are citing ignore this element entirely.

 

Which is why it's a bunk argument. It's arguing something else entirely. And that's assuming those numbers are actually real in the first place.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Deranged Rhino

[Sig1Hunter]

But we're not. Not really. The reality is the criminal justice system has been skewed along racial lines since this country was founded. The War on Drugs was a war on black folk and minorities and designed to bloat federal agencies at their expense. The US criminal justice system turned a blind eye while cartels ran (and continue to run) drugs into the inner cities while crafting legislation to designed to unfairly punish the poorest and brownest segments of the population. The sentencing disparity proves this beyond any reasonable doubt. The privatization of prisons only accelerated this.

 

African Americans make up less than 13% of the population, yet comprise 37% of the 2.2 million male prisoners in jails right now. This didn't happen because there's a perception of an unequal playing field. It happened because there has been a systemic use of police and the judicial system to target and detain minorities.

 

Your perception, as a white cop, is vastly different. But it's not representative of the reality for everyone. The reality is we have a system that disproportionately targets and incarcerates minorities... and we've had it since the beginning. That people are aware of this and upset by it shouldn't be surprising to anyone who knows their history.

 

 

 

Agreed. But that's not what we're discussing, or at least not what I'm discussing. I'm addressing your original question which was how could some believe cops would be out to kill a person. The answer is because it's happened before. You can deny that all you wish, but it's as true as the statement you made above.

 

 

 

Disagree. It's visual evidence of the issue. It's an ongoing issue, not an isolated historical incident. You asked for a reason why some would believe cops would kill. Those pictures are part of that answer.

 

With all due respect, the amount of ignorant garbage you post around here discredits you from pretty much any discussion involving these issues. Your ignorance is unmatched. And while you claim to be above racism, your insensitivity about these issues can be easily misrepresented as evidence to the contrary.

 

I didn't claim that there was. I said there was. And there's literally 239 years of evidence of this.

 

The scale of these offenses can be debated all you wish. But that doesn't mean they aren't real or didn't happen. And of course these issues shape people's perceptions of police within their community, which was the point. Saying "I don't understand how people could think cops would be out to kill a man" speaks more to the bubble that person is operating in than it does the reality of the world.

 

 

 

The data is there for you to see. It's clear and unambiguous.

 

My original question was directed at ALF's disbelief that Sterling would reach for a gun when he had two cops on top of him. The implication in his/her original statement is that it is much more believable that the cops shot him, while straddling him, without any legal justification. It's easier for some people to believe that two cops (who are equipped with body cameras and are having their every move and statement recorded) would decide to brutually murder an innocent man in full view of their cameras and the public, than a convicted felon who is looking at certain prison time to attempt escape by any means necessary. It betrays common sense. But, if your argument is that the militant black community's position is based on a complete lack of common sense, then we can agree. A position that is based in illegitimacy does not become more legitimate with more fervor, however.

[Maury Ballstein]

All good for the gangs now. Hilly is into gangs.

 

[Sig1Hunter]

Disagree. That's a faulty conclusion to draw without looking at the entire picture.

With that conclusion you're assuming that every crime and every criminal were policed and prosecuted equally. What we're discussing is an inherent kink in the system which determines not only who is policed and prosecuted, but how they are police and prosecuted. The numbers you and Unbilleivable are citing ignore this element entirely.

 

Which is why it's a bunk argument. It's arguing something else entirely. And that's assuming those numbers are actually real in the first place.

 

Am I understanding that you are saying that there has been some elaborate scheme by the government in the 40s, 50s, 60s to disenfranchise and keep minority communities downtrodden and poor? And, that these schemes somehow trickle down to the street cop in 2016? The present day white cop has a vested interest in killing innocent black men in order to perpetuate this scheme?

[unbillievable]

 

Am I understanding that you are saying that there has been some elaborate scheme by the government in the 40s, 50s, 60s to disenfranchise and keep minority communities downtrodden and poor? And, that these schemes somehow trickle down to the street cop in 2016? The present day white cop has a vested interest in killing innocent black men in order to perpetuate this scheme?

 

And that's assuming those numbers are actually real in the first place.

 

We have come to root of his argument. He thinks that there is a wide spread conspiracy among the white race.

 

There are no facts that will convince him otherwise, because it comes from the white internet.

 

Where is Tom? I think it's time for him to cite Critical Race Theory.

Edited July 13, 2016 by unbillievable

[meazza]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/time-to-end-the-demonizing-of-police-1468363042

[Deranged Rhino]

My original question was directed at ALF's disbelief that Sterling would reach for a gun when he had two cops on top of him.

 

I jumped in on a separate point and unknowingly hijacked it. Apologies.

 

Am I understanding that you are saying that there has been some elaborate scheme by the government in the 40s, 50s, 60s to disenfranchise and keep minority communities downtrodden and poor?

 

No, it's not a scheme. The American justice system has a lengthy and indisputable history of unequal treatment between black folk and white folk. From the very creation of the country, through Jim Crow, through separate but equal, through the civil rights movements, through the War on Drugs, right on up to today. Historically there has been a vested interest by the some in power to deliberately disenfranchise the black community through both legal and illegal means.

 

This isn't a scheme. This is historical fact.

 

And, that these schemes somehow trickle down to the street cop in 2016? The present day white cop has a vested interest in killing innocent black men in order to perpetuate this scheme?

 

I've never said nor do I believe either of these things.

 

As I said above, I was responding to a specific point and question I hijacked from your conversation with ALF. Answering why someone would believe it's possible two cops would murder a black man.

 

 

 

We have come to root of his argument. He thinks that there is a wide spread conspiracy among the white race.

 

There are no facts that will convince him otherwise, because it comes from the white internet.

 

Where is Tom? I think it's time for him to cite Critical Race Theory.

 

Nope. That's not only untrue, it's far too reductionist. But it does make for a good strawman.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Deranged Rhino

[meazza]

 

I jumped in on a separate point and unknowingly hijacked it. Apologies.

 

 

No, it's not a scheme. The American justice system has a lengthy and indisputable history of unequal treatment between black folk and white folk. From the very creation of the country, through Jim Crow, through separate but equal, through the civil rights movements, through the War on Drugs, right on up to today. Historically there has been a vested interest by the some in power to deliberately disenfranchise the black community through both legal and illegal means.

 

 

 

Tell me why the African American community is the community that will be prone to be involved in drugs?

 

Why not the Mexican community, the Italian community, the Arab community or the Asian community?

[Sig1Hunter]

Ok, but what evidence is there that this systematic repression of minorities is actually occurring "right on up to today"? If there is none, then is it just a perception based upon decades old information? At which point do we get to acknowledge that law enforcement is not stuck in the 60s? We are recorded in everything that we do - either by our own agencies, or by the public. We have mandatory reporting of traffic stop demographic statistics. We recruit lesser qualified minorities to have departments that are more representative of cultural demographics. We have entire divisions dedicated to embedding with the communities that we serve.

 

At some point, the victim mentality has to end.

 

If Alton Sterling was reaching for his gun, he is not a victim. If facts come out that prove that he was not reaching for his gun, and he was instead submitting, then I'll be right there with you demanding a vigorous prosecution of the two police officers. Ditto for Minnesota.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Sig1Hunter

[meazza]

Obama will be meeting with the son of the guy who died in Minnesota tomorrow.

[keepthefaith]

All good for the gangs now. Hilly is into gangs.

 

We have positive gangs now Hillary. They're called school, sports, music, arts, clubs, places of religious worship and others.

 

Disagree. That's a faulty conclusion to draw without looking at the entire picture.

With that conclusion you're assuming that every crime and every criminal were policed and prosecuted equally. What we're discussing is an inherent kink in the system which determines not only who is policed and prosecuted, but how they are police and prosecuted. The numbers you and Unbilleivable are citing ignore this element entirely.

 

Which is why it's a bunk argument. It's arguing something else entirely. And that's assuming those numbers are actually real in the first place.

So the crime numbers in the pie charts a few posts back are not relevant? You're suggesting the numbers are biased because the cops and the legal system prosecute black rapists, murderers and robbers more so than whites? That would mean that the victims of these violent crimes are less likely to see justice done if the criminals are white. So if my wife is raped by a white guy the cops and prosecutors aren't going after him as aggressively as if he were black?

Edited July 13, 2016 by keepthefaith

[Sig1Hunter]

The black population comprises approximately 13 percent of the population. Yet, 52 percent of murders are committed by black offenders. I don't understand how this is a straw man to your point that the prison population contains a percentage of blacks that is not representative of their total population.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Tell me why the African American community is the community that will be prone to be involved in drugs?

 

Why not the Mexican community, the Italian community, the Arab community or the Asian community?

 

Like I said above, it's not about race. There isn't one race that has a higher proclivity for crime and drug abuse than any other, any attempt to frame the conversation around that false paradigm is missing the point.

 

Each of those groups had a very different journey to this country, and and because of that they faced different obstacles from not only each other but the black community as well.

 

Ok, but what evidence is there that this systematic repression of minorities is actually occurring "right on up to today"?

 

The incarceration rates and different sentencing practices on drug offenses to name two.

 

Things take a long, long, loooong time to change when it's done within the system and when you're talking about the sort of systemic oppression that's been heaped upon the black community since they arrived in this country, those things leave a lasting imprint long after the injustices are resolved. Hell, 51 years ago black folk couldn't even vote.

 

51 years seems like a long time.

 

It isn't.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Deranged Rhino

[ExiledInIllinois]

Ok, but what evidence is there that this systematic repression of minorities is actually occurring "right on up to today"? If there is none, then is it just a perception based upon decades old information? At which point do we get to acknowledge that law enforcement is not stuck in the 60s? We are recorded in everything that we do - either by our own agencies, or by the public. We have mandatory reporting of traffic stop demographic statistics. We recruit lesser qualified minorities to have departments that are more representative of cultural demographics. We have entire divisions dedicated to embedding with the communities that we serve.

 

At some point, the victim mentality has to end.

Yes it does have to end. But it is easy for you to say seeing how giving your connections may never be swallowed up by the system you serve.

 

It would be like me say: "People, stop playing the victim when when waiting a long time in TSA line... While I cruise through to the front of the queue with my ID." "Deal w/the system." Aren't I being a bit hypocritical.

 

I for one do NOT think there is systematic repression. Go figure. I just don't buy into that lib mentality. There is NO conspiracy anywhere out there... Gov't, media, etc...

 

Now there is bias. Everybody has a bias one way or another. You do, I do. Bias just happens because of the complicated nature of the systems innvolved. The justice system is especially glaring. People simply just dont have the time and resources to fight it the right way. Emphasis on time especially!

 

Myself, the only reason I have been sucessful fighting personal legal injustices is because I am afforded the time to shift through the system. Most people want to resolve their troubles in the moment. The game out there is just so fast THEN the brakes are applied andit gets too slow. Just too slow and complicated without hiring an attorney. People have just dug themselves too deep a hole, too fast before they even know it and then attempt to double down to get out. Guess what happens?

 

It's like taking 3 cuts at a very slow pitch and whiffing on the spot. Yet, the pitch is fast enough, that if you don't swing and take too long, you get caught looking.

 

The system might appear rigged. And maybe it is when it comes to people who lack the education, time, and patience. There is simply no road map out there to get it perfect. The system demands perfection. We are hardly perfect people. All of us, more some than others. We all have an American birthright to fight tyranny. That is where people get tripped up. I don't want you leaning on my as much as you don't want me questioning how you do your job, leaning on you. Yet, it is your job to lean on me and my job to question you.

 

The legal system, justice, policing, gov't systems have simply become a black hole (excuse the wording)... & if one doesn't cross their t's, dot their i's, and fight like hell, they are swallowed up by the procedure. You've probably spent your share of time in court, how do you think the system appears to the average person appearing in that court? It's a black hole.

[boyst]

He ESPY's just honored Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin and the other criminals killed in their opening.

 

I didn't expect it seen by anyone. But it'll be headlines tomorrow

Like I said above, it's not about race. There isn't one race that has a higher proclivity for crime and drug abuse than any other, any attempt to frame the conversation around that false paradigm is missing the point.

 

Each of those groups had a very different journey to this country, and and because of that they faced different obstacles from not only each other but the black community as well.

 

 

 

The incarceration rates and different sentencing practices on drug offenses to name two.

 

Things take a long, long, loooong time to change when it's done within the system and when you're talking about the sort of systemic oppression that's been heaped upon the black community since they arrived in this country, those things leave a lasting imprint long after the injustices are resolved. Hell, 51 years ago black folk couldn't even vote.

 

51 years seems like a long time.

 

It isn't.

I think it took about 10-12 years max, actually. Before that it too bad.

[Chef Jim]

What Obama meant to say "in certain neighborhood teenagers WANT a gun more than they want a computer or a book". That's the absolute truth and the problem. Solve that and you solve a lot.

[Tux of Borg]

 

 

 

 

The list is long and infamous.

http://www.tpfnypd.com/tpf-history.html

 

" The Tactical Patrol Force was the NYPD's response to the turbulent 1960's and early 1970's. The riots of the mid 1960's, Whitehall Draft Board Riot and Vietnam War protests of the later 1960's, The Stonewall Riots, The Prison Riots of 1970, Son of Sam Serial Killer Case, Power Blackout of 1977, are among some of the events the Tactical Patrol Force responded to. The shining moment in TPF's history was when the order was given to retake Columbia University and clear out the protesters who where destroying the University. TPF had debris and furniture thrown at them from of upper level windows, buckets of human waste dosed the TPF officers. Yet they stood tall and completed their assigned duty."

[GG]

 

 

 

The incarceration rates and different sentencing practices on drug offenses to name two.

 

 

 

Do you have data to back this up?

[....lybob]

 

Do you have data to back this up?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

[Doc]

What Obama meant to say "in certain neighborhood teenagers WANT a gun more than they want a computer or a book". That's the absolute truth and the problem. Solve that and you solve a lot.

 

Almost impossible to solve when a large percentage of kids have an absentee parent and/or one who just doesn't care. Examples like Juror's are the exceptions, not the rule.

[GG]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

 

Care to link the primary methodology for ACLU's "comprehensive" report?

[keepthefaith]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

We need to know how many are dealing weed not just using it. We also need to know what other crimes people were arrested for at the same time charged with possession.

[ExiledInIllinois]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

Those numbers are pretty glaring, but I don't think it tells the whole story. I would like to see how many whites are realeased after getting caught w/weed. Is that stat even possible? Are cops letting whites go? That would be distressing!

 

There are so many other factors. I went on about prextext policing, "fishing expeditions." What about cultural behavior? Laziness, sloppiness, unorganized to have that crap around and in sight knowing it is illegal. Get stopped for something innocuous (like loud music) and then spiral down the black hole because you were stupid enough to have a gun or bag of weed on your lap, or begin arguing w/said officer. Rule of thumb, I will argue in their playground, but only under the sure bet my act is squared away... 100%!! Anything less and I m folding and submitting. A weapon stuck in my face is also a no brainer.

 

Are there cultural differences between ebony & ivory? Like hell their aren't!

 

Just saying...

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Do you have data to back this up?

There's plenty out there. Some better sourced than others. Not to mention the laws themselves.

 

Prison sentences of black men were nearly 20% longer than those of white men for similar crimes in recent years, an analysis by the U.S. Sentencing Commission found.

 

That racial gap has widened since the Supreme Court restored judicial discretion in sentencing in 2005, according to the Sentencing Commission's findings, which were submitted to Congress last month and released publicly this week.

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

 

Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites:

 

Social science research has time and again come to the robust conclusion that exposure to the criminal justice system has profound and intergenerational negative effects on communities that experience disproportionate incarceration rates.

 

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/rates.html

[GG]

There's plenty out there. Some better sourced than others. Not to mention the laws themselves.

 

Prison sentences of black men were nearly 20% longer than those of white men for similar crimes in recent years, an analysis by the U.S. Sentencing Commission found.

 

That racial gap has widened since the Supreme Court restored judicial discretion in sentencing in 2005, according to the Sentencing Commission's findings, which were submitted to Congress last month and released publicly this week.

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

 

Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites:

 

Social science research has time and again come to the robust conclusion that exposure to the criminal justice system has profound and intergenerational negative effects on communities that experience disproportionate incarceration rates.

 

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/rates.html

 

Did you read the WSJ article and the criticism of the commission's findings?

 

Gee, social science has concluded that generational exposure to the criminal justice system has an adverse affect on a community? Shocked, I tell you. Maybe they can round up a few pennies for another study that examines the effect that unbroken families have on members of the communities avoiding exposure to the criminal justice system in the first place?

[Sig1Hunter]

There's plenty out there. Some better sourced than others. Not to mention the laws themselves.

 

Prison sentences of black men were nearly 20% longer than those of white men for similar crimes in recent years, an analysis by the U.S. Sentencing Commission found.[/size]

 

That racial gap has widened since the Supreme Court restored judicial discretion in sentencing in 2005, according to the Sentencing Commission's findings, which were submitted to Congress last month and released publicly this week.[/size]

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

 

Nationally, according to the U.S. Census, Blacks are incarcerated five times more than Whites are, and Hispanics are nearly twice as likely to be incarcerated as Whites:

 

Social science research has time and again come to the robust conclusion that exposure to the criminal justice system has profound and intergenerational negative effects on communities that experience disproportionate incarceration rates.

 

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/rates.html

Why is this? Because a lot of black offenders generally can't afford a high priced private attorney. They are forced to rely upon basic public defense attorneys. How do incarceration rates with people represented by public defenders versus private defense attorneys vary? Edited July 14, 2016 by Sig1Hunter

[Deranged Rhino]

Why is this? Because a lot of black offenders generally can't afford a high priced private attorney. They are forced to rely upon basic public defense attorneys. How do incarceration rates with people represented by public defenders versus private defense attorneys vary?

 

That certainly plays a part, but only reinforces my arguments as to the ramifications of systemically oppressing an entire segment of the population for well over 200 years.

 

 

Did you read the WSJ article and the criticism of the commission's findings?

 

Gee, social science has concluded that generational exposure to the criminal justice system has an adverse affect on a community? Shocked, I tell you. Maybe they can round up a few pennies for another study that examines the effect that unbroken families have on members of the communities avoiding exposure to the criminal justice system in the first place?

 

Yup. I did. This isn't an invented issue, it's real and based in fact and history with hard data supporting it. You asked for numbers, I gave you numbers. There are plenty more out there to be had and they all say the same thing.

 

I'm not arguing these problems are insurmountable or attempting to justify victim mentality. I'm merely pointing out that they exist in a very real way to an entire segment of our population. Pretending there isn't a problem, when there clearly is, is just as disingenuous if not more so than the people who use that same problem to exonerate themselves from any culpability in their situation or actions.