JohnC Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I think what Podesta is doing is the most interesting story in the NFL in years. It's unique. The problem with the strip down strategy to accumulate draft picks is that success is predicated on good drafting. If your drafts turn out to be poor to average the over reliance on the draft to catapult you from misery to respectability won't work. When a franchise such as Cleveland (and to a lesser extent Buffalo) becomes mired in generational failure it becomes an unappealing place to attract free agents. In today's NFL success is predicated on having a qb, good drafting, making smart mid-level free agent selections and organizational stability. As you point out they are taking an all out and risky approach to rebuilding. And as you noted they will be an interesting team to follow. Sometimes you succeed through analytics and sometimes you fail because of the poor use of analytics. This will be a good case study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 The problem with the strip down strategy to accumulate draft picks is that success is predicated on good drafting. If your drafts turn out to be poor to average the over reliance on the draft to catapult you from misery to respectability won't work. When a franchise such as Cleveland (and to a lesser extent Buffalo) becomes mired in generational failure it becomes an unappealing place to attract free agents. In today's NFL success is predicated on having a qb, good drafting, making smart mid-level free agent selections and organizational stability. As you point out they are taking an all out and risky approach to rebuilding. And as you noted they will be an interesting team to follow. Sometimes you succeed through analytics and sometimes you fail because of the poor use of analytics. This will be a good case study. I firmly believe success breeds success in the NFL. This isn't the NBA where you draft Lebron and it turns everything around. Even in baseball you can draft a group of kids and they have success together before the reach the Majors, similar to what happened with the Royals in their turn around. In the NFL guys need to perform almost at Day 1, if they aren't surrounded by vets who are able to help them both on and off the field you are going to end up with a whole team of guys who doesn't truly know what it takes. Basically the Raiders did what the Browns are trying to do when McKenzie took over. But the Raiders didn't just sit on piles of unused cap space, they signed a bunch of veterans like Charles Woodson, Justin Tuck, Lamar Woodley. Those guys were at varying levels of still being able to play, but they were constant guides to the young players on the roster. Then they stayed at the top of the draft board, took elite players in Mack and Cooper, lucked into Carr in round 2 and immediately brought in good vets around them. It's too early in Cleveland's reset to make any judgements, but if they don't add elite players in this draft and aren't able to use their cap space on free agents with upside or vets willing to help younger guys out then this regime is just setting things up for the next one. Depth is very important in this league, but a roster full of B- players does not equate to an A- team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I firmly believe success breeds success in the NFL. This isn't the NBA where you draft Lebron and it turns everything around. Even in baseball you can draft a group of kids and they have success together before the reach the Majors, similar to what happened with the Royals in their turn around. In the NFL guys need to perform almost at Day 1, if they aren't surrounded by vets who are able to help them both on and off the field you are going to end up with a whole team of guys who doesn't truly know what it takes. Basically the Raiders did what the Browns are trying to do when McKenzie took over. But the Raiders didn't just sit on piles of unused cap space, they signed a bunch of veterans like Charles Woodson, Justin Tuck, Lamar Woodley. Those guys were at varying levels of still being able to play, but they were constant guides to the young players on the roster. Then they stayed at the top of the draft board, took elite players in Mack and Cooper, lucked into Carr in round 2 and immediately brought in good vets around them. It's too early in Cleveland's reset to make any judgements, but if they don't add elite players in this draft and aren't able to use their cap space on free agents with upside or vets willing to help younger guys out then this regime is just setting things up for the next one. Depth is very important in this league, but a roster full of B- players does not equate to an A- team. Excellent post. Very incisive with good examples reinforcing your points. Your point about getting the right mix of veteran players to show the young players how to prepare and act professionally is spot on. On a smaller scale hockey is another sport where the right mixture of players is needed to be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Excellent post. Very incisive with good examples reinforcing your points. Your point about getting the right mix of veteran players to show the young players how to prepare and act professionally is spot on. On a smaller scale hockey is another sport where the right mixture of players is needed to be successful. this why Guys like Kyle, Woods, Ritchie and Graham shouldn't be traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) this why Guys like Kyle, Woods, Ritchie and Graham shouldn't be traded. I would trade Kyle Williams for the simple reason that I have so much respect for him. He is the embodiment of class, leadership and work ethic. He deserves better; he deserves to play in a playoff game. If I had my way I would virtually give him up for nothing to allow him to play for playoff caliber team such as Dallas. He, not having the opportunity to play in a post-season after such a long and distinguished career doesn't seem right. As Chuck Wagon smartly posted it is important to have the right mix of players so that the younger players can witness for themselves what it means to be a successful pro. Without that guidance on and off the field their talents won't be fully exploited. Buffalo not having a franchise qb for 20 years and not making the playoffs for 18 years is a disgrace and an embarrassment. Edited February 22, 2017 by JohnC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rm -rf /* Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Mia Khalifa happened - https://twitter.com/miakhalifa/status/773011516824006660 The DM Slide https://twitter.com/miakhalifa/status/831907182992117761 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I wrote a little something on Jalen Robinette, the Air Force WR. He's raw but he's already nuanced in a couple of ways that'll translate. http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/02/22/bills-2017-nfl-draft-targets-air-force-wr-jalen-robinette-scouting-report/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I would trade Kyle Williams for the simple reason that I have so much respect for him. He is the embodiment of class, leadership and work ethic. He deserves better; he deserves to play in a playoff game. If I had my way I would virtually give him up for nothing to allow him to play for playoff caliber team such as Dallas. He, not having the opportunity to play in a post-season after such a long and distinguished career doesn't seem right. As Chuck Wagon smartly posted it is important to have the right mix of players so that the younger players can witness for themselves what it means to be a successful pro. Without that guidance on and off the field their talents won't be fully exploited. Buffalo not having a franchise qb for 20 years and not making the playoffs for 18 years is a disgrace and an embarrassment. I can understand that but Kyle is a Bill for life plus he can still flat out play. He stays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I wrote a little something on Jalen Robinette, the Air Force WR. He's raw but he's already nuanced in a couple of ways that'll translate. http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/02/22/bills-2017-nfl-draft-targets-air-force-wr-jalen-robinette-scouting-report/ You have to stop stealing my mid-round prospects, Blokes. I like Robinette quite a bit actually. To me, this isn't a very deep WR class, unlike last year when we figured that immediate contributors like R. Anderson and G. Allison would be available late, so I'm hoping it's Davis/Williams in R1 or Kupp/JuJu in R2. Chances are that once we get past R2, guys like J-Rob that have size and a stupid catch radius will get scooped up quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I think the prime value at receiver is going to be 2nd and 3rd round. I have 2 first rounders (the obvious 2) and then 7 second round grades Ross, Kupp, Zay Jones, Westbrook, Dupree, Schuster and Ford. Then another handful of 3rd rounders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I think the prime value at receiver is going to be 2nd and 3rd round. I have 2 first rounders (the obvious 2) and then 7 second round grades Ross, Kupp, Zay Jones, Westbrook, Dupree, Schuster and Ford. Then another handful of 3rd rounders.I can't get over Cupp's age. He's older than Sammy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 @si_nfl .@ChrisBurke_SI has updated his 2017 Big Board—here's how the top 50 prospects line up ahead of the combine: http://on.si.com/2lJbP0e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 @si_nfl .@ChrisBurke_SI has updated his 2017 Big Board—here's how the top 50 prospects line up ahead of the combine: http://on.si.com/2lJbP0e Way he sees the QBs is intriguing. Has Watson at #13 on his big board and then Mahomes is the 2nd QB at #27. Trubisky 4th of the 4 down at #40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 You have to stop stealing my mid-round prospects, Blokes. I like Robinette quite a bit actually. To me, this isn't a very deep WR class, unlike last year when we figured that immediate contributors like R. Anderson and G. Allison would be available late, so I'm hoping it's Davis/Williams in R1 or Kupp/JuJu in R2. Chances are that once we get past R2, guys like J-Rob that have size and a stupid catch radius will get scooped up quickly. A lot of it depends on who returns from the Woods/Goodwin/Hunter bunch and which FA's come in pre-draft. Robinette could be a like-for-like replacement for what Hunter does well. There's a ton of mid-late round slot guys in this class (some big, some small) that I like for the right value. Davis is the clear #1 but, after him, Williams, JuJu and maybe Chris Godwin, not a lot of true boundary guys that I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I can understand that but Kyle is a Bill for life plus he can still flat out play. He stays. He deserves better than dt to be completely attached to this bumbling franchise. I agree with you that he can still play at a high level. It would be nice to see such a class guy have the opportunity to play in a playoff game. It's not happening here and it is not going to happen this year. His career is winding down. He needs to be reprieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) I can't get over Cupp's age. He's older than Sammy. That's the only sticking point I have with him. I still have him graded pretty high (no higher than WR5 on my current list, maybe 6-7 by the end of it) mainly because I think he's about as safe a pick as there is at WR outside of Davis. He's a staggeringly easy evaluation, just depends on what you value. As a high volume slot guy in a WCO, I can justify him in the 2nd. The bigger issues, like with Jarvis Landry, is the volume will demand a lot at 2nd contract but the skill set isn't broad enough to justify that outlay. He's likely only a 4-year rental. Edit - I respect Landry's skill set and all but I ain't paying this for that - http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/jarvis-landry-14473/market-value/ Edited February 23, 2017 by Blokestradamus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) MY PICKS10: R1P10WR COREY DAVISWESTERN MICHIGAN49: R2P17S OBI MELIFONWUCONNECTICUT75: R3P11LB DUKE RILEYLSU112: R4P7QB DAVIS WEBBCALIFORNIA157: R5P12CB BRENDAN LANGLEYLAMAR172: R5P27C JON TOTHKENTUCKY196: R6P11QB CHAD KELLYMISSISSIPPITRADESTRADE PARTNER:WASHINGTON REDSKINSSENT:• ROUND: 2 PICK: 12RECEIVED:• ROUND: 2 PICK: 17• ROUND: 4 PICK: 7 Edited February 23, 2017 by Bocephuz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 10: R1P10 LB REUBEN FOSTER ALABAMA 44: R2P12 S OBI MELIFONWU CONNECTICUT 75: R3P11 WR ZAY JONES EAST CAROLINA 157: R5P12 QB DAVIS WEBB CALIFORNIA 172: R5P27 EDGE DEVONTE FIELDS LOUISVILLE 196: R6P11 K ZANE GONZALEZ ARIZONA STATE I would sign up for this. Apparently Foster dropped some weight and would be good fit as MLB in McDermott D.. which is key position Obi seems like a versatile safety with size enough to play in the box and fast enough to cover the back end ok Jones looked really good in Senior Bowl.. not sure if he'll last til the 3rd (maybe small school hurts him?) but if he's available here definitely take him For whatever reason Webb has been underrated by most of the pundits. He has prototypical size, strong arm, is aggressive.. does a decent job getting the ball out in time and in rhythm. Decent footwork for big guy who is in shotgun most of time. Not that familiar with Fields as I haven't really looked into any of the DEs or D Linemen much Gonzalez - seems to be the best kicker available in draft. Why not.. Carpenter will be gone. Give him a shot in training camp and if he wins he will be super cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) Doh @jasoncoleBR DE/OLB Takkarist McKinley said he'll have shoulder surgery (torn labrum, broken glenoid) after full NFL combine workout. 5-6 month recovery. FWIW, Takkarist McKinley said he did 24 reps benching 230 pounds today despite needing surgery on his right shoulder Edited February 24, 2017 by YoloinOhio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Who doesn't hate a broken glenoid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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