BADOLBILZ Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 It does. A point I have made a few times since mid-season is that when I look around the league I don't see too many teams around the league running that Rex Ryan style of defense. This year there were some similarities as you would expect with what the Saints were doing, with what the Browns were doing there is still some carry over in what Baltimore does and actually there was some similarities with what the then St Louis Rams were doing. After that it is slim pickings. What is alarming is hearing Rex claim he was running the Schwartz D when he clearly was not. Particularly in coverage. I don't know if he just thinks everyone is too dumb to see the difference...........or if he actually didn't know how to run Schwartz simple D. I'd rather he was just being disingenuous than face the reality that maybe he is too dumb to run a simple but unfamiliar scheme. Face it, the guy has a book of tactics. He runs plays on D........but can he go off script and adapt? There has been a lot of talk lately, of course, about Wade Phillips ability as a DC. Wade was known for running a pretty simple D in Buffalo but he could adapt and spin together a fresh look for opponents he felt might take advantage of his regular scheme. Rex ability to do this is.......basically to adapt.......is in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 What is alarming is hearing Rex claim he was running the Schwartz D when he clearly was not. Particularly in coverage. I don't know if he just thinks everyone is too dumb to see the difference...........or if he actually didn't know how to run Schwartz simple D. I'd rather he was just being disingenuous than face the reality that maybe he is too dumb to run a simple but unfamiliar scheme. Face it, the guy has a book of tactics. He runs plays on D........but can he go off script and adapt? There has been a lot of talk lately, of course, about Wade Phillips ability as a DC. Wade was known for running a pretty simple D in Buffalo but he could adapt and spin together a fresh look for opponents he felt might take advantage of his regular scheme. Rex ability to do this is.......basically to adapt.......is in question. Didn't you think the script he put together for the second NE game was pretty impressive? That was more strategy than tactics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Didn't you think the script he put together for the second NE game was pretty impressive? That was more strategy than tactics... Actually it was the very definition of a Rex tactic. Sometimes tactics work. The Pats were very vulnerable on the OL, at WR and at RB that day.......and subsequently struggled for much of the rest of the season until they got healthy. When we got Rex I remember thinking that it was good because he is almost always competitive against the Patriots..........but then during that second Patriots game..... I realized that he was actually doing little more than playing not to lose.......trying to keep the score close and praying for a break that rarely comes when you face a team that can out execute you like the Patriots. And that is why he has become a master of losing close games to the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 What is alarming is hearing Rex claim he was running the Schwartz D when he clearly was not. Particularly in coverage. I don't know if he just thinks everyone is too dumb to see the difference...........or if he actually didn't know how to run Schwartz simple D. I'd rather he was just being disingenuous than face the reality that maybe he is too dumb to run a simple but unfamiliar scheme. Face it, the guy has a book of tactics. He runs plays on D........but can he go off script and adapt? There has been a lot of talk lately, of course, about Wade Phillips ability as a DC. Wade was known for running a pretty simple D in Buffalo but he could adapt and spin together a fresh look for opponents he felt might take advantage of his regular scheme. Rex ability to do this is.......basically to adapt.......is in question. Yep. Agreed, and the first line is where I started from in this thread. His statement that the first New England game was all the 2014 scheme (and if you were going to pick a team to run that scheme against maybe don't pick the one team who really exposed it... but I digress) is just plain wrong and the article that is linked proves that. I also prefer to think this was just Rex's usual bull rather than him actually not having a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 He's assuming everyone is/was too dumb to see this, I think that was obvious. Notice you are just about the only person sticking up for Rex's performance last year. Why? I don't know. No, actually everyone else has just fled this shameless echo chamber. Notice it's just the same four or five people posting the same points over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) My point was I watched Mario and I couldn't tell he took plays off or made less than 100% effort while on the field simply because of the scheme was playing in didn't allow him to do what he does best. I highly doubt there is a Bills fan or even a coach out there who could say anything about his performance because they don't know what his specific responsibilities were on a given play. Fair enough. It then comes down to, "who is that masked man...er...anonymous player - does he know?" and how reliable is Ty Dunne when he asserts the anonymous comments he posted were the "tip of the iceberg". Sure, take Buffalo Bills HoF DE Bruce Smith and ask him to drop into pass coverage or be a space eating, gap controlling DE so Ray Bentley could make the plays and then see if he remains silent all season about that situation. As I recall, when Bruce was asked to drop into coverage he worked his a** off to improve his skills at that regard. And I think the "Bickering Bills" of 1989 taught the team quite firmly that they should keep their mouths shut in public and when talking to reporters, no matter what they might believe privately. Remember Kelly calling out House Ballard and screaming at his WR, and Thurman Thomas, when asked what positions the Bills could improve at, responding "Quarterback"? IMHO Mario should keep his mouth shut and elevate his own level of play, just like Thomas advised Kelly. That said, I think that's a very very good analogy for what we saw at times this season. Not dropping into coverage so that Biscuit Bennett could rush the passer. Not dropping into coverage so that Darryl Talley could rush the passer. Dropping into coverage so that Ray Bentley, or maybe Shane Conlan, could rush the passer. NUTS. No, actually everyone else has just fled this shameless echo chamber. Notice it's just the same four or five people posting the same points over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Cat, meaning no offense, but if that's what you think of this thread now why are you still posting? Does this kind of thing really contribute positively to the board? "Say nothing" is an option for you, Yes? Edited January 31, 2016 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Lol that's because you keep making threads like this one. Well, no actually. This thread was made because an article came out that provided thorough analysis dissecting PATS1 v PATS2. And since PATS1 is such a sticky point of contention with many of you, it's reasonable (my mistake) to assume that new/good information might encourage you to rethink your position. Cat, meaning no offense, but if that's what you think of this thread now why are you still posting? Does this kind of thing really contribute positively to the board? "Say nothing" is an option for you, Yes? Consider me the SARS blanket on the echo chamber wall. I'll gracefully bow out so the rest of you can go back to needlessly raising each other's blood pressure, if that's what you'd prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Well, no actually. This thread was made because an article came out that provided thorough analysis dissecting PATS1 v PATS2. And since PATS1 is such a sticky point of contention with many of you, it's reasonable (my mistake) to assume that new/good information might encourage you to rethink your position. Whilst I think the article is a reasonable analysis - at least of what was going on upfront - it doesn't say anything to contradict what many of us have said about that game. The defense was a hot mess of too many different concepts and didn't know if it was coming or going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Actually it was the very definition of a Rex tactic. Sometimes tactics work. The Pats were very vulnerable on the OL, at WR and at RB that day.......and subsequently struggled for much of the rest of the season until they got healthy. When we got Rex I remember thinking that it was good because he is almost always competitive against the Patriots..........but then during that second Patriots game..... I realized that he was actually doing little more than playing not to lose.......trying to keep the score close and praying for a break that rarely comes when you face a team that can out execute you like the Patriots. And that is why he has become a master of losing close games to the Patriots. What the Bills did against the Patriots in that second game showed the rest of the league their flaws and how to exploit them. It was the offense that let the team down in that game. Why didn't we see that same team that played so well in that second game against NE is my question? Now granted the Patriots had many injuries at WR & O line but still the Bills actually blitzed and had the front four rushing the passer in that game. Just look at some of the Bills defensive plays in this game to see the Bills actually overloading at the line and then sending more them four. That game was hugely successful for the Bills in getting pressure on Brady and had gotten more pressure on Brady than any other team the last seven years...up until that AFC champ game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJDp4pT408Y Then we never saw that same defense again when it counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 What is alarming is hearing Rex claim he was running the Schwartz D when he clearly was not. Particularly in coverage. I don't know if he just thinks everyone is too dumb to see the difference...........or if he actually didn't know how to run Schwartz simple D. I'd rather he was just being disingenuous than face the reality that maybe he is too dumb to run a simple but unfamiliar scheme. Face it, the guy has a book of tactics. He runs plays on D........but can he go off script and adapt? There has been a lot of talk lately, of course, about Wade Phillips ability as a DC. Wade was known for running a pretty simple D in Buffalo but he could adapt and spin together a fresh look for opponents he felt might take advantage of his regular scheme. Rex ability to do this is.......basically to adapt.......is in question. More on Wade and adaptation: http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-primesport/In-Wade-Phillips-defense-scheme-fit-doesnt-matter----if-you-can-play-you-play/077e3d34-ce3c-4c90-9102-98fc5c9987b7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 More on Wade and adaptation: http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-primesport/In-Wade-Phillips-defense-scheme-fit-doesnt-matter----if-you-can-play-you-play/077e3d34-ce3c-4c90-9102-98fc5c9987b7 And yet, one of the things players say is so hard about Rex's "scheme" is that it changes weekly to fit the new opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 It wasn't a good year - but it wasnt the worst year. If we're not better next year, rex will be fired. If we are - hopefully we can make the playoffs. Not much more to say than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I still feel that if the right players are inserted this defense could make a comeback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 And yet, one of the things players say is so hard about Rex's "scheme" is that it changes weekly to fit the new opponent. But that's the very definition of tactics (as opposed to strategy) right? I'm not really trying to rip into Ryan here, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 But that's the very definition of tactics (as opposed to strategy) right? I'm not really trying to rip into Ryan here, btw. I know you're not. But the prevailing anti-Rex sentiment is that he's a bull-headed blowhard who has HIS way of doing things, and whether you're a round peg or a square hole, you're getting shoved into his ego-driven, outmoded, disorganized system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) And yet, one of the things players say is so hard about Rex's "scheme" is that it changes weekly to fit the new opponent. I read the article, and there is nothing in it about the defensive scheme changing weekly to fit the new opponent. It discusses changing the overall defensive scheme to fit the players Wade has. Thus, your comment appears to be a non-sequitur to the article. As to Badol's comment about Wade adapting and spinning together a fresh look during his time in Buffalo, that provides insufficient information regarding the difficulty of changes week to week. Wade could change things up from the same base defense/terminology - it looks different, it may have different players in different roles, it may confuse the offense. But if the base defense and terminology don't change, it's not that difficult for the players week to week. From comments Polian made, and I think also Lewis and Scott, Rex introduces entirely new plays and terminology week to week. So it requires a lot of study and thought. Edited February 2, 2016 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Very good article by Tyler Dunne about Rex D http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/01/249971/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Very good article by Tyler Dunne about Rex D http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/02/01/249971/ Just an ex-player sticking up for his old coach. More excuses! Yet there is absolutely no excuse on the planet that can forgive taking a D-line that was #1 in the NFL in QB pressures / sacks the year before and castrating them with a new scheme that doesn't fit what they do best and turning them into the 31st in sacks, 31st in sack percentage. The very, very simple reality is that pressure on the QB is about the absolute best thing you can do to help a secondary, any secondary! With little or no pressure on the opposing QB you could have the best four in the league in coverage and they will eventually get burned. In 2015 the Buffalo Bills were 30th in QB pressures. The Buffalo Bills had two excellent CB's in 2015 (Gilmore & Roby) and when you combine that with the team 30th in QB pressures it makes for the team 19th against the pass. Now don't tell me it was injuries or the lack of different players because against the Jets in that last game Ryan was able to put tremendous pressure on the QB with an injured, beaten up depleted defense. You saw a completely different team take the field defensively in certain games that mattered most to Rex Ryan. That second game against NE with no Kyle Williams, with no Aaron Williams, with no Mario Williams and yet the Bills were able to put pressure on Brady on 50% of his dropbacks and so much so he was screaming at his O-linemen like a little girl. The two games against the Jets and in particular that last game with all the injuries and no Stephon Gilmore in the secondary. With the Bills blitzing less than 10% in a lot of the games in 2015 its like Ryan didn't even try to get pressure on the QB. Everyone points the finger at Mario Williams and says it was all his fault because he didn't buy in! Not in my view! If anyone took almost all of the year off it was the man who calls the defensive plays, and sets the defensive game plans. So many issues with the defense and most of those were with the coaches, late play calls, late substitutions, lack of team discipline with so many penalties. Was Ryan too lazy to watch the film and study the opponent, then draw up a proper game plan? Or did he just not care because he was sitting like a fat cat by getting paid 25 mill in a 5-year deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 The Buffalo Bills had two excellent CB's in 2015 (Gilmore & Roby) Think you mean Gilmore and Darby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just an ex-player sticking up for his old coach. More excuses! Yet there is absolutely no excuse on the planet that can forgive taking a D-line that was #1 in the NFL in QB pressures / sacks the year before and castrating them with a new scheme that doesn't fit what they do best and turning them into the 31st in sacks, 31st in sack percentage. The very, very simple reality is that pressure on the QB is about the absolute best thing you can do to help a secondary, any secondary! With little or no pressure on the opposing QB you could have the best four in the league in coverage and they will eventually get burned. In 2015 the Buffalo Bills were 30th in QB pressures. The Buffalo Bills had two excellent CB's in 2015 (Gilmore & Roby) and when you combine that with the team 30th in QB pressures it makes for the team 19th against the pass. Now don't tell me it was injuries or the lack of different players because against the Jets in that last game Ryan was able to put tremendous pressure on the QB with an injured, beaten up depleted defense. You saw a completely different team take the field defensively in certain games that mattered most to Rex Ryan. That second game against NE with no Kyle Williams, with no Aaron Williams, with no Mario Williams and yet the Bills were able to put pressure on Brady on 50% of his dropbacks and so much so he was screaming at his O-linemen like a little girl. The two games against the Jets and in particular that last game with all the injuries and no Stephon Gilmore in the secondary. With the Bills blitzing less than 10% in a lot of the games in 2015 its like Ryan didn't even try to get pressure on the QB. Everyone points the finger at Mario Williams and says it was all his fault because he didn't buy in! Not in my view! If anyone took almost all of the year off it was the man who calls the defensive plays, and sets the defensive game plans. So many issues with the defense and most of those were with the coaches, late play calls, late substitutions, lack of team discipline with so many penalties. Was Ryan too lazy to watch the film and study the opponent, then draw up a proper game plan? Or did he just not care because he was sitting like a fat cat by getting paid 25 mill in a 5-year deal? I agree. Rex game planned better and executed at games that were more important to him. Not sure how or why or just a coincidence? A possibility could be he spent weeks of preparation for certain games and thusly didn't do much for the surrounding weeks on the schedule. Also, most were division games (although two were new coaching staffs) maybe he just knows the personnel on the division games better? But, as I have mentioned before I don't think he game plans and works as hard as he needs to to be an above average coach. Always a bridesmaid and never a bride and just enough mouth to sling crap for some to believe what he is selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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