Mario Williams interview ( hard to disagree )

[FireChan]

That's a big part, certainly. There's also the message it sends to future coaching candidates, UFAs, and everyone else in the league. No one wants to come to a team that is such a cluster!@#$ they keep turning over coaches and rosters every other year.

 

That said, staying with the wrong coach just to gain stability isn't the answer either.

Yep. It's a total "damned if you do" scenario. That being said, unless it's a HoF coach, I'm taking 3 perennial ProBowlers and All-Pros over a middling HC.

[stevewin]

The worst case scenario in my mind is to try to change this roster to fit Rex's scheme. How many years wasted trying to build a roster to fit different schemes only to have to reset when the coach is inevitably fired (Greggo's 46, Jauron's Tampa 2 etc etc etc) - with additional rebuild years on the back end. Especially when as discussed, Rex's scheme has been exposed by teams running hurrying up on offense. AND we already have the talent on the roster now that was a top defense a year ago.

 

As has also been discussed - if Rex for some reason is willing to do the sensible thing and run a defense to the strengths of the all-pro talent that helped make it a top defense in the league last year, then what is his real value add - since there are many others with better HC qualifications if you take away his defensive 'genius'

[mannc]

Is it working for us now? Because that is what Buffalo does.....continue to change out coaching staffs

I think you are confusing cause and symptom. Buffalo changes coaches frequently because they were the wrong coaches in the first place and they failed. The Bills do not fail because they change coaches; the frequent changes are a symptom of an organization that has made very poor HC hires (among other problems, of course). Name one former Bills HC who has enjoyed any success as a HC after leaving Buffalo, or has even gotten a HC gig. Which HC do you think would have succeeded in Buffalo if given another year or two? I can't think of any. In fact, I would say most were given more time than they deserved. Rex fits into that category, unfortunately. Edited December 25, 2015 by mannc

[Boolay]

How many HC has Brandon "Don't let Rex leave the building" had input into hiring? Let's try just one without him involved at all and see how it works out.

[Deranged Rhino]

Yep. It's a total "damned if you do" scenario. That being said, unless it's a HoF coach, I'm taking 3 perennial ProBowlers and All-Pros over a middling HC.

True. Though sometimes it's tough to tell if you have a HOF coach after only one season, if not impossible. Of course Rex has a history and track record so it's not like he's a raw or unknown entity. Frankly I don't know where I stand on Rex in terms of bringing him back yet personally.

 

I don't think he'll get fired, but wouldn't complain if he were. I doubt he's forgotten how to coach defense and think they can and will be better with a year under their belts in this system. Still, I completely underestimated the time it would take to transition/learn his scheme and I never expected him to neuter the front four to such a degree.

 

But who is out there who would be an upgrade? I don't think JS is coming to the rescue (and think he's a worse head coach than Rex), and I don't want to break in another rookie HC or college sensation with this roster. They are too close to a legit run in terms of talent to waste time with a coach trying to find his footing in the NFL. So it's a tough spot.

 

I know one thing, I don't envy the decision Terry/Kim will have to make in a few weeks. But it should be fun to see how it plays out.

[Dopey]

It is not really the logical move because changing out coaches every year is not a recepti for success

 

And we can either sit and cry about the spilt milk or figure out how to fix the mistake of this year and move on

 

It is easy to say FIRE EVERYBODY BLOW IT UP every year.....but that wont get us closer

What would you call it if we have to rebuild the defence to match Rex' scheme? Hint: BLOWING IT UP. I'd rather let Rex go and find a coach who, oh I don't know, coaches maybe. You get 2-3 maybe 4 years to keep a good group together and we wasted 1 already. If he stays we will rebuild/blow it up and probably won't be as good as what we have now, or had. Edited December 25, 2015 by Dopey

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I dont think Mario is wrong

but

THe train has left the station.....I doubt Rex gets fired so bring in players that play his D system properly

 

The thing that bothers me is: "who are these players who will make it work?"

 

How well has Rex's D worked recently in NYC? After 2 great years, they slid to 20th, 20th, 19th, and 24th on points (which is the stat tightly correlated to winning, how many points given up). This year so far they are 8th, with close to the same cast, which suggests to me maybe Bowles knows something.

 

If you need a Revis-Island level superduper ball-hawking secondary and a Ray-Lewis-level LB to make it work as well as a couple of Braniac guys to have everyone lined up and the right call, why don't we just go the other way and draft a franchise QB of the Peyton Manning or Drew Brees caliber? Maybe that would be easier.

[GG]

Replacing Mario with a player who gives a damn and adding a linebacker is blowing it all up?

[FireChan]

True. Though sometimes it's tough to tell if you have a HOF coach after only one season, if not impossible. Of course Rex has a history and track record so it's not like he's a raw or unknown entity. Frankly I don't know where I stand on Rex in terms of bringing him back yet personally.

 

I don't think he'll get fired, but wouldn't complain if he were. I doubt he's forgotten how to coach defense and think they can and will be better with a year under their belts in this system. Still, I completely underestimated the time it would take to transition/learn his scheme and I never expected him to neuter the front four to such a degree.

 

But who is out there who would be an upgrade? I don't think JS is coming to the rescue (and think he's a worse head coach than Rex), and I don't want to break in another rookie HC or college sensation with this roster. They are too close to a legit run in terms of talent to waste time with a coach trying to find his footing in the NFL. So it's a tough spot.

 

I know one thing, I don't envy the decision Terry/Kim will have to make in a few weeks. But it should be fun to see how it plays out.

I would take a rookie HC or college guy, but force Roman on him, and make him/entice him to hire a 4-3 guy for DC. Most coaches wouldn't be okay with having coordinators picked out for them, but I think a rookie HC's first shot makes him a little more malleable.

 

I also expected a drop-off in production, but not nearly this bad or long, and I didn't expect a mutiny. Both are very, very bad signs.

Edited December 25, 2015 by FireChan

[YoloinOhio]

Replacing Mario with a player who gives a damn and adding a linebacker is blowing it all up?

i would not blow anything up. There were players who were going to be gone anyway due to money/production. Mario, McKelvin, Bradham.

 

I would add: NT. Others are replacements. Replace Mario and Bradham in draft with a pass rusher and MLB. Save tons of cap space. Move Brown back to his natural position of WLB. Upgrade at safety in FA and/draft.

Edited December 25, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[Deranged Rhino]

I would take a rookie HC or college guy, but force Roman on him, and make him/entice him to hire a 4-3 guy for DC. Most coaches wouldn't be okay with having coordinators picked out for them, but I think a rookie HC's first shot makes him a little more malleable.

 

I also expected a drop-off in production, but not nearly this bad or long, and I didn't expect a mutiny. Both are very, very bad signs.

Agreed totally on the last bit.

[GG]

i would not blow anything up. There were players who were going to be gone anyway due to money/production. Mario, McKelvin, Bradham.

 

I would add: NT. Others are replacements. Replace Mario and Bradham in draft with a pass rusher and MLB. Move Brown back to WLB. Upgrade at safety in FA and/draft.

TJ Barnes is already on the squad. Jets can't afford both Harrison and Wilkerson. One of them is coming here.

 

The mutiny is led by one player who sued his former fiance.

Edited December 25, 2015 by GG

[yungmack]

It is not really the logical move because changing out coaches every year is not a recepti for success

 

And we can either sit and cry about the spilt milk or figure out how to fix the mistake of this year and move on

 

It is easy to say FIRE EVERYBODY BLOW IT UP every year.....but that wont get us closer

You are correct that changing coaches is not a recipe for success. But the apparent situation with the Bills this off season is either Rex goes or else a whole boatload of players go as the Defensive Genius remakes the roster in his image. Which makes more sense, replacing Rex or replacing the roster?

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Or the alternative.

 

Continuity for the sake of continuity. Even when you're current head coach is incompetent.

Here's a suggestion. Make Roman HC and get a new DC. You keep continuity where you need it.

[boyst]

The players surely hold responsibility over their own actions- but I bet it's tough when you have incredible success and then a new boss comes in and says he's going to work to set you up to repeat it and then you show up to work and he pulls the rug out from under you

I don't see how people do not realize that this is what happened! It is akin to being the best window washer at work and one day your boss comes in and says you'll be cleaning blinds instead of washing windows. Same tools, same sort of concept just different responsibility. Who would be happy about that?

 

In my line of work I run in to this about every day. I run a furniture plant and have to pay by production to my ladies. If one of them can run 150% over production they get paid an extra 50% an hour. If I pull them off of something they are good at because we need to get other products assembled than I have upset workers who are making less and I need to be able to successfully manage their ability to produce.

 

It's not easy for many people to accept. But, when they only hit 100% of production they get their base rate of $10ish an hour, vs. the almost $15 they make getting maximum production. Putting them on a unit which takes multiple people to run is a task - one person is always under 100% and they're slowed down because of it and will not reach 150%.

 

A big part of changing coaches every year being a failure is that you are constantly chasing players for different schemes.

In this case, we would be chasing a coach for our existing players.

This would have to be an offensive coach. Guys from big programs who can manage the talent of their coordinators would work. Chip Kelly with Roman and a good DC would be good - sans his ego or whatever his issue is. Urban Meyer is another candidate I would like. Matt Campbell will end up coaching tOSU soon, anyway.

 

Either way, find me an organized head coach, a new guy with fresh bloood to do what Parcells did. Organize the talent to achieve success. Let the talent coach the athletes and create the systems necessary to win football games.

 

 

So you still can't give me a reason? Is it because constant coaching changes lead to unnecessary roster turnover due to scheme change?

is it that simple? oh wait, yes it is.

 

Yep. It's a total "damned if you do" scenario. That being said, unless it's a HoF coach, I'm taking 3 perennial ProBowlers and All-Pros over a middling HC.

 

 

Replacing Mario with a player who gives a damn and adding a linebacker is blowing it all up?

Mario gives a damn. Psychology proves so. He wouldn't be talking if he didn't. Don't confuse anger and frustration with empathy.

 

TJ Barnes is already on the squad. Jets can't afford both Harrison and Wilkerson. One of them is coming here.

The mutiny is led by one player who sued his former fiance.

Bringing up that he sued his former fiance to this means nothing? She took off with the ring and by all accounts lied and manipulated the entire relationship; talking to a friend of mine who was rather close to Mario in college (his best friend dated Mario a few years) said that he was a very emotional guy who was somewhat clingy and not too well with the women.

[GG]

 

Mario gives a damn. Psychology proves so. He wouldn't be talking if he didn't. Don't confuse anger and frustration with empathy.

 

Bringing up that he sued his former fiance to this means nothing? She took off with the ring and by all accounts lied and manipulated the entire relationship; talking to a friend of mine who was rather close to Mario in college (his best friend dated Mario a few years) said that he was a very emotional guy who was somewhat clingy and not too well with the women.

Yup, exactly the right profile of a leader to lead a mutiny.

[boyst]

Yup, exactly the right profile of a leader to lead a mutiny.

Mario's words himself state that he is not a leader.

 

He is, though, a leader by example. I do not see mario being capable of leading men other than on the field through his actions. Anyone listening to him will likely be dissuaded by the honest to god shitfest this unit fields, regardless of it being mario or not.

 

but, there has been a very amazing transition on his play; he has turned in to one of the best run stoppers in the league @ DE. As for pass rusher, honestly, I don't think we're playing him right with Rex, but let Hughes play the pass rush. But, for !@#$s sake, get him more involved with what is going on and don't leave him out to occupy gaps on the passing schemes.

[GG]

Mario's words himself state that he is not a leader.

 

He is, though, a leader by example. I do not see mario being capable of leading men other than on the field through his actions. Anyone listening to him will likely be dissuaded by the honest to god shitfest this unit fields, regardless of it being mario or not.

 

but, there has been a very amazing transition on his play; he has turned in to one of the best run stoppers in the league @ DE. As for pass rusher, honestly, I don't think we're playing him right with Rex, but let Hughes play the pass rush. But, for !@#$s sake, get him more involved with what is going on and don't leave him out to occupy gaps on the passing schemes.

That would be correct, if Mario exhibited qualities of a grown up.

 

Watch the plays. There were many calls that were identical to what Schwartz ran last year, and all Mario had to do was beat a simple one on one match up.

 

How did he do?

[What a Tuel]

I think you are confusing cause and symptom. Buffalo changes coaches frequently because they were the wrong coaches in the first place and they failed. The Bills do not fail because they change coaches; the frequent changes are a symptom of an organization that has made very poor HC hires (among other problems, of course). Name one former Bills HC who has enjoyed any success as a HC after leaving Buffalo, or has even gotten a HC gig. Which HC do you think would have succeeded in Buffalo if given another year or two? I can't think of any. In fact, I would say most were given more time than they deserved. Rex fits into that category, unfortunately.

 

This is that same QB argument. Just because the Bills QB's weren't good doesn't mean you don't give a reasonable chance for rookies coming out of college to develop. Same thing with Coaching. Just because former Bills Coaches likely wouldn't have worked out, doesn't mean consistency and roster turnover aren't a thing to be considered.

 

When you start taking past history into account in current decision making, you end up like the Browns.

 

Not to mention what decent HC will come to the Bills if it is playoffs year 1 or die?

Edited December 25, 2015 by What a Tuel

[8-8 Forever?]

I agree with MW on this one. The Dline except Hughes pouted all year over this, that is the wrong way to deal with it but Rex screwed it up and it falls 90% on him and 10% on Pegula and Whaley for hiring the buffoon. Rex has more BS than coach Dickerson when he was on GR55

All Pegs had to do was give Marrone the extension (the extension he had the right to ask for since new owners usually leave the existing coaches out in the cold) and you and baby Mario would have kept your precious Schwartz defense; news flash: Pegs said no. and that was what set all the wheels in motion. you have your blame percentages reversed. Rex is Rex, of all the coaches available , he is the one where you know EXACTLY what you will get. and Pegs with full knowledge and eyes open picked him. this is 90% on Pegs, sorry...