bobobonators Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 I think some of you are going off the deep end a bit, thinking its the end of the world with this 3-4 / 4-3 argument. Who cares what the base defense is on paper. The majority of our defensive stars have played in both and have been successful in both. The players have to perform. All this complaining by players is annoying. A bunch of Veteran players who have had success, coming off an awesome year (probably a little too high on themselves lets be honest), and when things dont go their way in the "new scheme" it's not their fault, its the schemes fault. BULL EFFIN SH*T Mario: youve played in a 3-4 before and you have never sucked to this level before. Thats on you fella. Dareus: youve played in a 3-4 in Alabama and on the Bills. Youve never sucked this much before. Thats on you fella. Some of these guys are taking this to another level to the point that its amusing. Its like if rex was asking them to become olympic ski jumpers. Hughes: rex isnt asking you to jump offsides 2x a game everygame and have a personal foul every game. Does Rex need to tighten the ship a bit? Yes. Do the players need to hold themselves accountable for their piss-poor BONEHEADED plays this season? YES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87168 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) I think some of you are going off the deep end a bit, thinking its the end of the world with this 3-4 / 4-3 argument. Who cares what the base defense is on paper. The majority of our defensive stars have played in both and have been successful in both. The players have to perform. All this complaining by players is annoying. A bunch of Veteran players who have had success, coming off an awesome year (probably a little too high on themselves lets be honest), and when things dont go their way in the "new scheme" it's not their fault, its the schemes fault. BULL EFFIN SH*T Mario: youve played in a 3-4 before and you have never sucked to this level before. Thats on you fella. Dareus: youve played in a 3-4 in Alabama and on the Bills. Youve never sucked this much before. Thats on you fella. Some of these guys are taking this to another level to the point that its amusing. Its like if rex was asking them to become olympic ski jumpers. Hughes: rex isnt asking you to jump offsides 2x a game everygame and have a personal foul every game. Does Rex need to tighten the ship a bit? Yes. Do the players need to hold themselves accountable for their piss-poor BONEHEADED plays this season? YES. a defensive scheme extends far beyond being 3-4 or 4-3. the type of 3-4 that Rex has this personnel playing is nonsensical. Edited December 25, 2015 by 87168 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Buffalo Feet Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 If they let Rex go I hope they promote Roman and bring in a new D staff and at least build on the offensive chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 If they let Rex go I hope they promote Roman and bring in a new D staff and at least build on the offensive chemistry. If its going to go that way, i tend to agree with you. Here is what i guess will happen. some midlevel and position coaches have shown they are not the best fit moving forward. Rex just wanted familiarity to get up and running. Which did not work so well. so a bit of internal restructure and a couple player moves might be enough. Dont think its is unreasonable for Ryan to turn this defense around, and tighten up the offense under Romans direction. Rex puts on the face for the media, but i think he knew early on he was screwed. something was broken and did the best he could to hang on to the season. The trick is to dig into what is broken. Like the challenge issues we saw. Those were corrected. and he has let the D line "get after it ". But the game time communication is a mess. we can all see that. especially the players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Replacing Mario with a player who gives a damn and adding a linebacker is blowing it all up? in the context of keeping Rex? I think not ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) I think some of you are going off the deep end a bit, thinking its the end of the world with this 3-4 / 4-3 argument. Who cares what the base defense is on paper. The majority of our defensive stars have played in both and have been successful in both. There's a valid point to the extent that players have played in both 3-4 and 4-3 schemes before with success. And to a certain extent, most Ds in the league today use a mixture of both. So doesn't that beg the question: "what's different about Rex's 3-4 that seems to be giving the players fits?" The answers, which seem to come from outsiders such as Polian, include -Rex's D is very complex, uses very complex terminology and has little continuity from week to week -because of its complexity and complex terminology, it may rely on 1-2 "player experts" to get everyone lined up in the right spot, which the Bills lacked -in his attempt to confuse the O, he expects the DL to take on roles they wouldn't necessarily take in a "typical" 3-4 such as drop in coverage -there was a lot of confusion with late plays and late substitutions, leading to uncertainty and lack of time to get set before the snap. If you're not certain of your role and focused before the snap, you're gonna get your butt whipped in today's NFL. Saying "it's just a 3-4, what's the problem?" is, I think, missing some points. Edited December 26, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) There's a valid point to the extent that players have played in both 3-4 and 4-3 schemes before with success. And to a certain extent, most Ds in the league today use a mixture of both. So doesn't that beg the question: "what's different about Rex's 3-4 that seems to be giving the players fits?" The answers, which seem to come from outsiders such as Polian, include -Rex's D is very complex, uses very complex terminology and has little continuity from week to week -because of its complexity and complex terminology, it may rely on 1-2 "player experts" to get everyone lined up in the right spot, which the Bills lacked -in his attempt to confuse the O, he expects the DL to take on roles they wouldn't necessarily take in a "typical" 3-4 such as drop in coverage -there was a lot of confusion with late plays and late substitutions, leading to uncertainty and lack of time to get set before the snap. If you're not certain of your role and focused before the snap, you're gonna get your butt whipped in today's NFL. Saying "it's just a 3-4, what's the problem?" is, I think, missing some points. What im saying is that we have talented players that have played ALL KINDS of schemes in the NFL. Instead of focusing on learning Rex's "complex scheme" they appear (some do) on complaining about it. But this goes back to my belief that bc the defense had ONE dominant season last season some players thought they were above learning a new scheme. Reality is if you dont believe in something from the onset youre most likely going to do it half-assed. Edited December 26, 2015 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) I think the writing is on the wall on some of this stuff. - Rex isnt going anywhere...u dont make that kind of investment in a HC and then can him in a year - Mario probably IS getting cut or traded......but lets be real here. A player the level of Alex Carrington came in and gave the same level of production as Mario did. It can be replaced if that is all Mario is going to give us. - It is time to start looking at how the players can be made to fit the scheme. - We are in position to draft the top MLB of the draft according to most mocks. - Move Preston Brown to a OLB position where he was more productive. - Get that enforcer hard hitting safety. - The corners are already in place (or then will be once Gilmore is signed) - The QB pressure of a 3-4 does not come from the down linemen.....we need space eaters who push the pocket.....get a true nose....move Marcel to END We do have some of the pieces for this.....it is in the linebacking core where we are lacking Edited December 26, 2015 by John from Hemet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I think the writing is on the wall on some of this stuff. - Rex isnt going anywhere...u dont make that kind of investment in a HC and then can him in a year - Mario probably IS getting cut or traded......but lets be real here. A player the level of Alex Carrington came in and gave the same level of production as Mario did. It can be replaced if that is all Mario is going to give us. - It is time to start looking at how the players can be made to fit the scheme. - We are in position to draft the top MLB of the draft according to most mocks. - Move Preston Brown to a OLB position where he was more productive. - Get that enforcer hard hitting safety. - The corners are already in place (or then will be once Gilmore is signed) - The QB pressure of a 3-4 does not come from the down linemen.....we need space eaters who push the pocket.....get a true nose....move Marcel to END We do have some of the pieces for this.....it is in the linebacking core where we are lacking Alex gave the same level of production as Mario? In what world? This is why the average fan should sit out judging talent, especially on the DL. Mario has been one of the best in the league at setting the edge for the run and playing a run stuffing DE. Teams refused to run at Mario. The fact that there were errors on his side of the ball is because our LB's cant scrape to save their life. Plus, all of Carrington's sacks... yep, all 0 of them match the pitiful 4 that Mario did get. Then, consider that Hughes leads the team with 5 sacks and easily consider that Mario could easily finish with more sacks than anyone and you have to take back your assessment of Mario. I'm not saying he's all-pro this year but I say that many fans are taking a wide berth in evaluating his talent in consideration of just what his other Bills are doing. Brown was not more productive as an SLB. He was more featured; meaning that he cleaned up what the DL left for him. It was the DL that made him look so good last year. NT for a 34 is hard to find. Rookies cannot come in and contribute at NT and since Wilfork is the only true capable NT in the NFL, or was - we're not going to fare well looking for one. ...we are lacking a whole hell of a lot to get Rex Ryans system in place. And, I am not sure anyone knows where to start in acquiring talent. Being that Whaley chose to commit to positions that seemed to be less important to Ryans system was odd. We needed a better MLB and S. The suggestions or talent brought in for a look-see were pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Replacing Mario with a player who gives a damn and adding a linebacker is blowing it all up?If that was all we needed,no. But we need way more than that. Watch a rebuild of the d start this off season. I'll call it blowing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 What im saying is that we have talented players that have played ALL KINDS of schemes in the NFL. Instead of focusing on learning Rex's "complex scheme" they appear (some do) on complaining about it. But this goes back to my belief that bc the defense had ONE dominant season last season some players thought they were above learning a new scheme. Reality is if you dont believe in something from the onset youre most likely going to do it half-assed. That's one viewpoint. Another viewpoint is, if Ryan's D (at best) is viewed as unusually difficult to play against by OLmen (Eric Wood for one, source I won't name for 2) and referred to by Polian as "extremely complex" and "using extremely complex terminology", and requiring a player or players with unusual savvy to get set (Ray Lewis, Jim Leonhard), oh, I don't know, maybe it's not just whiny "above learning" players? Players who don't seem in general whiny about it have commented on the plays coming in late, and on players scrambling to substitute and not being in position. Maybe, like, its actually more complex than most D schemes and actually difficult to master in quick-substitution situations against a fast paced offense? I thought the players seemed pretty "all in" about Rex and great things that would happen in training camp and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Amazing to watch the fans here try and run Mario out of town. Seems like we are trying to complete the change to the 2014 NYJ Defense and slowly dismantle the only positive thing about this team in the last 10+ years (the front 4). Mario is capable of another 14+ sack season with the right defense. If you'd prefer him to do that on another team, then I have no words for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 This is that same QB argument. Just because the Bills QB's weren't good doesn't mean you don't give a reasonable chance for rookies coming out of college to develop. Same thing with Coaching. Just because former Bills Coaches likely wouldn't have worked out, doesn't mean consistency and roster turnover aren't a thing to be considered. When you start taking past history into account in current decision making, you end up like the Browns. Not to mention what decent HC will come to the Bills if it is playoffs year 1 or die? If this was Rex's first HC gig and if he did not already have a substantial track record of losing more winning, and if the Bills were a talent-deficient, rebuilding team, then I would agree with you. But that's not the case. Rex's contract is a sunk cost. There are only two questions that matter now: "Can Rex get the job done? And is there another available person who would be an upgrade?" If the answers are "no" and "yes" then he should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I'd keep Mario over rex. He's a moody player, but can flat out dominate when motivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 The Bills need to cut Mario regardless in order to re-sign Glenn and Richie , maybe Taylor to a bridge contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) The Bills need to cut Mario regardless in order to re-sign Glenn and Richie , maybe Taylor to a bridge contract. Yes, I think that's part of what is driving this. If Mario is cut designated post-Jun 1 this year, the Bills save $14-ish M and cost $5.4 against the cap this year, $1.6 next. Mario wants another gig elsewhere and doesn't want to be tarred as a "declining" player for his production, hence, it's in his interest to speak out. He knows he's gone, nothing to lose. Except, he really needs to shut up now and grind for the last 2 games. Saying something once is fine, answer questions and expand on it, pretty much have to, keep going like the energizer bunny and you lose cred. Edited December 26, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 If this was Rex's first HC gig and if he did not already have a substantial track record of losing more winning, and if the Bills were a talent-deficient, rebuilding team, then I would agree with you. But that's not the case. Rex's contract is a sunk cost. There are only two questions that matter now: "Can Rex get the job done? And is there another available person who would be an upgrade?" If the answers are "no" and "yes" then he should go. Amazing to watch the fans here try and run Mario out of town. Seems like we are trying to complete the change to the 2014 NYJ Defense and slowly dismantle the only positive thing about this team in the last 10+ years (the front 4). Mario is capable of another 14+ sack season with the right defense. If you'd prefer him to do that on another team, then I have no words for you. The Jets D has been a more positive thing for the Jets the past 4 years than the Bills D has been a positive thing for the Bills.. Amazing the hype the D is getting, but it is sounding more and more like a learning curve than anything, and that can be improved upon with practice and commitment, and yes the right pieces to fit the scheme. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenigmusx Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Alex gave the same level of production as Mario? In what world? This is why the average fan should sit out judging talent, especially on the DL. Mario has been one of the best in the league at setting the edge for the run and playing a run stuffing DE. Teams refused to run at Mario. The fact that there were errors on his side of the ball is because our LB's cant scrape to save their life. Plus, all of Carrington's sacks... yep, all 0 of them match the pitiful 4 that Mario did get. Then, consider that Hughes leads the team with 5 sacks and easily consider that Mario could easily finish with more sacks than anyone and you have to take back your assessment of Mario. I'm not saying he's all-pro this year but I say that many fans are taking a wide berth in evaluating his talent in consideration of just what his other Bills are doing. Brown was not more productive as an SLB. He was more featured; meaning that he cleaned up what the DL left for him. It was the DL that made him look so good last year. NT for a 34 is hard to find. Rookies cannot come in and contribute at NT and since Wilfork is the only true capable NT in the NFL, or was - we're not going to fare well looking for one. ...we are lacking a whole hell of a lot to get Rex Ryans system in place. And, I am not sure anyone knows where to start in acquiring talent. Being that Whaley chose to commit to positions that seemed to be less important to Ryans system was odd. We needed a better MLB and S. The suggestions or talent brought in for a look-see were pretty bad. I have a feeling Wilkerson will be coming to town. He is a free agent at the end of this season I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) I have a feeling Wilkerson will be coming to town. He is a free agent at the end of this season I believe.word is he wants out of NY - and they won't pay him what h wants anyway (per Jets media). Where he will end up is anyone's guess. But I think the Bills would want Harrison in the middle. Cheaper FA option and will free up their elite guy (Dareus) in this scheme. Edited December 26, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 I dont think Mario is wrong but THe train has left the station.....I doubt Rex gets fired so bring in players that play his D system properly No thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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