Carucci: Bills won't discuss Whaley's future during season

[GG]

IMO he was definitely the one that went crying to Timmah. But that doesn't mean he is Whaley's boss. In fact, he has zero to do with football and Whaley, like Rex, reports directly to the Pegulas.

 

Read two posts above.

 

It was clear there was massive miscommunication within the front office on that move, and many people above Whaley's pay grade weren't happy with how it played out. Unless you hit home runs, moves like that don't make you a long term employee in the organization.

[Kelly the Dog]

Why? Because they didn't fire him in the beginning of TC means they're enamored with him? Second-chances don't extend forever.

 

I swear, the mental gymnastics some of y'all go through.

Second chances extend for that particular offense. They are not going to give him a mulligan as you say for it and then after the season fire him for it. That was the premise of why they don't like him. He hasn't done anything crazy or gone rogue since, unless you want to say he went rogue with the Mulligan release and the Pegulas have had it with this!

[26CornerBlitz]

 

 

 

He is the President of the Buffalo Bills, and sits higher up the food chain that Whaley. If he's the one with egg on his face with M&T, he would make sure that Whaley knew he screwed up.

 

It's the same thing with the Sabres. Russ is not Tim Murray's Boss. The Hockey and Business Ops are completely separated. Same thing with the Bills. Bottom line with both franchises is that Russ does not get involved in on ice or on field decisions.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

 

He is the President of the Buffalo Bills, and sits higher up the food chain that Whaley. If he's the one with egg on his face with M&T, he would make sure that Whaley knew he screwed up.

Except he and "Whales" are INCREDIBLY close. Brandon will have nothing to do with Whaley being gone and will certainly be lobbying to the Pegulas to keep him. It may not matter but if Whaley is gone it will 100% be an ownership decision (and the wrong one IMO).

[FireChan]

Second chances extend for that particular offense. They are not going to give him a mulligan as you say for it and then after the season fire him for it. That was the premise of why they don't like him. He hasn't done anything crazy or gone rogue since, unless you want to say he went rogue with the Mulligan release and the Pegulas have had it with this!

They may fire him for not making the playoffs. That will be the final straw. He used his second chance on Fred.

[papazoid]

the Pegula's have already tipped their hand

 

they tried to hire Bill Polian

[jahnyc]

I have thought that not extending Whaley before the season (even if for one year) is all we really needed to know about his future as the GM of the Bills.

 

Separately, seems to me that many of the offseason moves, for good and for bad, were directed by Ryan and his staff, including Taylor, Clay, Harvin and Incognito.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Read two posts above.

 

It was clear there was massive miscommunication within the front office on that move, and many people above Whaley's pay grade weren't happy with how it played out. Unless you hit home runs, moves like that don't make you a long term employee in the organization.

I don't think that is what happened at all. I think he just didn't tell Brandon before because he didn't think Brandon needed to be informed of football moves anymore and Brandon threw a little hissy fit along with one or two of his minions. That's all. That's not massive miscommunication within the front office. It's quite possible that the Pegulas told Whaley because Russy got his wittle feelings hurt that he should inform him of the next 10 year all-time great beloved heroic underdog Division III Buffalo guy he is about to cut because he can't stay healthy.

They may fire him for not making the playoffs. That will be the final straw. He used his second chance on Fred.

So you think after watching the Bills play this year and last year, and knowing the players the Whaley assembled on defense last year, and kept this year, combined with what he assembled on offense this year, they are going to fire him because the defense sucked?

 

Whaley is not going anywhere unless perhaps they lose their last four games.

[GG]

Except he and "Whales" are INCREDIBLY close. Brandon will have nothing to do with Whaley being gone and will certainly be lobbying to the Pegulas to keep him. It may not matter but if Whaley is gone it will 100% be an ownership decision (and the wrong one IMO).

 

I am not commenting on what may happen this offseason. My commentary is limited solely to how the FJax release was handled and apparently how it caught many people at OBD by surprise, including people above Whaley in the structure. As I said in the original thread, it doesn't matter if Whaley isn't nominally responsible for the business side of the team. If the business side got blindsided on a major deal that he pulled off very surreptitiously, it wouldn't sit quietly and it would reverberate back to Whaley.

[FireChan]

I don't think that is what happened at all. I think he just didn't tell Brandon before because he didn't think Brandon needed to be informed of football moves anymore and Brandon threw a little hissy fit along with one or two of his minions. That's all. That's not massive miscommunication within the front office. It's quite possible that the Pegulas told Whaley because Russy got his wittle feelings hurt that he should inform him of the next 10 year all-time great beloved heroic underdog Division III Buffalo guy he is about to cut because he can't stay healthy.

So you think after watching the Bills play this year and last year, and knowing the players the Whaley assembled on defense last year, and kept this year, combined with what he assembled on offense this year, they are going to fire him because the defense sucked?

 

Whaley is not going anywhere unless perhaps they lose their last four games.

So they may fire him? Thanks for agreeing.

 

Most likely though, he'll be czar-ed and demoted.

[elroy16]

It's dumb to us because we only care about football. It's not dumb to the Pegula's who have spent many years building up their brand and don't want to hurt their reputation by looking like the bad guys. They want to win but they want to do it the right way too. Whaley only cares about the team on the field but there are other things to consider when you look at the operation as a whole (unfortunately). Kim is hands on every day with the business so she is the one that looks bad when the top sponsor gets screwed out of a ton of money. They are still building their relationships and that was a bad look for them. As you can imagine they didn't like having to clean up that mess. But again that's not why they would get someone else. They just might not put up a fight if their new football czar wants to bring in his own people. Whaley would be snatched up in about 2 seconds though so maybe if it came down to it he might not want to stay anyhow

 

 

I get it, but I still don't like it. Running a NFL team with any intent outside of putting the best team on the field is a great way to field a mediocre team.

 

 

 

I don't mean to bring up a topic that was argued to death, but I searched for the Fred Jackson was Cut thread and the search is only going back to October and I am unable to find it. The whole thing with M&T bank thing sounds WAY over blown.

 

This is all I could find on that.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25288308/look-this-fred-jackson-ad-is-pretty-awkward-after-he-was-cut-by-bills

 

What outside of the flyer caused M&T bank to lose all this money and look so stupid?

 

 

 

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/business/jacksons-release-cuts-to-the-heart-of-mts-bills-marketing-campaign-20150831

 

That article states Fred was a partner with M&T bank since 2011. I'm sure athletes with marketing deals get cut or traded all the time in sports. Why is this such a big deal with Fred Jackson?

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

I get it, but I still don't like it. Running a NFL team with any intent outside of putting the best team on the field is a great way to field a mediocre team.

 

 

 

I don't mean to bring up a topic that was argued to death, but I searched for the Fred Jackson was Cut thread and the search is only going back to October and I am unable to find it. The whole thing with M&T bank thing sounds WAY over blown.

 

This is all I could find on that.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25288308/look-this-fred-jackson-ad-is-pretty-awkward-after-he-was-cut-by-bills

 

What outside of the flyer caused M&T bank to lose all this money and look so stupid?

 

 

 

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/business/jacksons-release-cuts-to-the-heart-of-mts-bills-marketing-campaign-20150831

 

That article states Fred was a partner with M&T bank since 2011. I'm sure athletes with marketing deals get cut or traded all the time in sports. Why is this such a big deal with Fred Jackson?

i think because they didn't get a heads up and learned about it when everyone else did. It wasn't communicated properly. They called and b*tched so someone at OBD was pissed they had to deal with it because they weren't informed either, and that's where the rogue thing came from. That's what I remember. It wasn't so much that the decision was made, but that they weren't given the notification they feel they deserved and were blindsided.

 

Fred was also supposed to be cut in March when he had that deal in place with the steelers - before the plan changed.

Edited December 8, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[BillsVet]

This year we've seen a lot of circumstantial evidence of division at OBD, namely the clumsy way Fred was cut (which included Fred publicly saying Whaley wasn't trustworthy). Or, the abrupt Cassel trade which meant Manuel dressed in Week 3 after he sat the previous 2 games.

 

Anyone remember when Rex started Manuel in the first training camp scrimmage? Or in the 3rd game of the pre-season game versus Pittsburgh? This, after Manuel was clearly the 3rd guy.

 

It also wouldn't surprise me if the BN reporters know there are issues, but cannot report the whole truth because doing so hinders their ability to cover the team.

[eball]

This year we've seen a lot of circumstantial evidence of division at OBD, namely the clumsy way Fred was cut (which included Fred publicly saying Whaley wasn't trustworthy). Or, the abrupt Cassel trade which meant Manuel dressed in Week 3 after he sat the previous 2 games.

 

Anyone remember when Rex started Manuel in the first training camp scrimmage? Or in the 3rd game of the pre-season game versus Pittsburgh? This, after Manuel was clearly the 3rd guy.

 

It also wouldn't surprise me if the BN reporters know there are issues, but cannot report the whole truth because doing so hinders their ability to cover the team.

 

Thanks for the laugh, BV.

 

The numbskulls at TBN have been criticizing the Bills for everything from personnel decisions to the food in the press box. They're not afraid of being excluded.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

 

He is the President of the Buffalo Bills, and sits higher up the food chain that Whaley. If he's the one with egg on his face with M&T, he would make sure that Whaley knew he screwed up.

M&T - they seem pretty smart to center a kind of marketing campaign around a 34 year old running back....

 

I remember the last time ownership fired a GM who actually put together a decent roster over some principle conflict. Ironically Doug is the best gm since Polian so if Pegs is thhinkg about a move in that direction... Then kiss the next 2-3 years goodbye while Rex drives the franchise into the ground until the next "reboot"

Edited December 8, 2015 by over 20 years of fanhood

[May Day 10]

In a vacuum they should keep Whaley. Had some great draft picks. Theoretically if that continues, you never have to worry again.

 

 

 

 

However, i feel like he will be gone, barring a 10-6 playoff run. Something still stinks out of OBD. All the 'leaks' and strange things coming from OBD wasnt just a Marrone thing. We still hear little purposefully placed snippets in the media from there such as "Whaley went rogue", "Manuel may win the starting position", and even this new one about the extension. Folks will disagree but I feel like it is Brandon. In which case you would have to assume Whaley will be the one to go as Brandon is pretty much an immovable object at this point with the Sabres and Bills thing. If its Rex... he is also not going anywhere with his deal, signs like speaking at the WJC presser, etc. Whaley is on the weakest footing, unfortunately.

Edited December 8, 2015 by May Day 10

[KDIGGZ]

I get it, but I still don't like it. Running a NFL team with any intent outside of putting the best team on the field is a great way to field a mediocre team.

 

 

 

I don't mean to bring up a topic that was argued to death, but I searched for the Fred Jackson was Cut thread and the search is only going back to October and I am unable to find it. The whole thing with M&T bank thing sounds WAY over blown.

 

This is all I could find on that.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25288308/look-this-fred-jackson-ad-is-pretty-awkward-after-he-was-cut-by-bills

 

What outside of the flyer caused M&T bank to lose all this money and look so stupid?

 

 

 

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/business/jacksons-release-cuts-to-the-heart-of-mts-bills-marketing-campaign-20150831

 

That article states Fred was a partner with M&T bank since 2011. I'm sure athletes with marketing deals get cut or traded all the time in sports. Why is this such a big deal with Fred Jackson?

Multiple tv spots had already been filmed, marketing materials created, basically a full blown ad campaign which isn't cheap. The exact department that Kim works in. It could have been avoided with better communication. It was in Whaley's power to do it but they deserved more of a heads up like hey Fred is on the bubble so don't spend all of that money on an ad campaign. In fact I think that the opposite was said (that he was safe). I wouldn't want to be on that conference call with m&t the day Fred was cut. Kim and Russ were put in a pretty bad spot. I think it was a last minute call by Whaley and it was made for the right football reasons but that doesn't mean that it was the right thing to do or the right way to go about doing it

[Jobu]

In a vacuum they should keep Whaley. Had some great draft picks. Theoretically if that continues, you never have to worry again.

 

 

 

 

However, i feel like he will be gone, barring a 10-6 playoff run. Something still stinks out of OBD. All the 'leaks' and strange things coming from OBD wasnt just a Marrone thing. We still hear little purposefully placed snippets in the media from there such as "Whaley went rogue", "Manuel may win the starting position", and even this new one about the extension. Folks will disagree but I feel like it is Brandon. In which case you would have to assume Whaley will be the one to go as Brandon is pretty much an immovable object at this point with the Sabres and Bills thing. If its Rex... he is also not going anywhere with his deal, signs like speaking at the WJC presser, etc. Whaley is on the weakest footing, unfortunately.

 

 

I truly believe that is Brandon too.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Jobu

[KDIGGZ]

They aren't going to fire him for that. But it makes it easier to go in a different direction when the team isn't winning

[Kelly the Dog]

Multiple tv spots had already been filmed, marketing materials created, basically a full blown ad campaign which isn't cheap. The exact department that Kim works in. It could have been avoided with better communication. It was in Whaley's power to do it but they deserved more of a heads up like hey Fred is on the bubble so don't spend all of that money on an ad campaign. In fact I think that the opposite was said (that he was safe). I wouldn't want to be on that conference call with m&t the day Fred was cut. Kim and Russ were put in a pretty bad spot. I think it was a last minute call by Whaley and it was made for the right football reasons but that doesn't mean that it was the right thing to do or the right way to go about doing it

They didn't know at all that karlos was going to blow them away the way he did. They thought he was just going to be a ST player his first year. When he surpassed Fred on the depth chart late in training camp that is when he became expendable because he was now #3 and didn't play ST so he wasn't going to be active some games. That was a late occurring change that was not predictable.