31 of McCoy's 119...

[BADOLBILZ]

At this point, I'd be surprised if Murray and Mathews combined rush for what Shady did last year.

 

 

And AP will probably run for more than all 3 of them combined.

 

I guess there is a big drop off from #1 to "top 3".

[Doc]

And AP will probably run for more than all 3 of them combined.

 

I guess there is a big drop off from #1 to "top 3".

 

I'll bet you he doesn't. He's older than all 3 of them and should dropoff any second, right?

 

And what does AP have to do with anything? Kelly didn't trade him to the Bills or sign him to replace Shady.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Doc

[Boatdrinks]

AP is a great RB, and the best in the league but he' s averaging 4.9 YPC . McCoy is averaging 4.7 and hasn't been healthy for much of the season. AP hadn't played since early 2014 , so he was in great shape physically. There's a drop off for sure, but McCoys looking good lately. Besides, the Bills were never going to get AP for a lot of reasons. Not sure what he has to do with the Bills, anyway.

[Steve in Carolina]

 

 

I'm not always going to address your ill-conceived posts..........but what I do is provide perspective.

 

I get that some people don't like that but it's laughable that people always think Kelly is an idiot and he just keeps winning.

 

He has his team rolling......they've won 3 of last 4.....only loss was in Carolina, who has beaten everyone......and they have 5 of their final 8 at home.

 

It is what it is.......the guy knows what he is doing.

Except with Miami

[Doc]

AP is a great RB, and the best in the league but he' s averaging 4.9 YPC . McCoy is averaging 4.7 and hasn't been healthy for much of the season. AP hadn't played since early 2014 , so he was in great shape physically. There's a drop off for sure, but McCoys looking good lately. Besides, the Bills were never going to get AP for a lot of reasons. Not sure what he has to do with the Bills, anyway.

 

Haven't watched any Vikes games this year. How's their O-line?

[GunnerBill]

 

Haven't watched any Vikes games this year. How's their O-line?

 

Not dissimilar to ours I would say based on watching last night's game. Above average in run blocking, inconsistent in pass blocking.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Not dissimilar to ours I would say based on watching last night's game. Above average in run blocking, inconsistent in pass blocking.

Yep. At least yesterday (one game, of course, is usually not a good indicator). AD had a lot of room to run, although he is just a beast. Teddy had no time to throw and was running for his life most of the game. He did a great job to avoid the rush.

[Bill from NYC]

No chance.

 

EDIT: and I will be impressed if you can find one respectable poster (i.e. no one with a name like "Dukey Bomb" or with 2Pac as their avatar) to agree that Karlos Williams has a higher trade value than McCoy...

This would be a worthy debate AFTER the season imo.

 

Karlos is scoring touchdowns galore. If he continues to do so at anywhere near this rate, he would command a decent draft pick in a trade. Remember, his salary is about what, 400K per year? This is absolute peanuts. I don't know what McCoy will cost in 2016, but I am guessing 10 to 12 times as much, and he's older.

 

And Coach, this post isn't about who is a better, more talented player. I am speaking ONLY of draft value.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I'll bet you he doesn't. He's older than all 3 of them and should dropoff any second, right?

 

And what does AP have to do with anything? Kelly didn't trade him to the Bills or sign him to replace Shady.

 

 

Oh I thought we were just making jokes.

 

You really think the Eagles are going to average around 60-70 yards rushing in the last 7 games?

 

I've been making light of the "top 3 RB" absolute we've been fed wrt McCoy.

 

He's not.

 

But if the spread between the top RB and whatever McCoy is is going to be 500 plus yards then maybe "top 3" isn't really a great point of reference. Are running backs who finish within 500 yards of McCoy deserving to be lumped into a class with him?

Edited November 16, 2015 by #BADOL

[Doc]

Oh I thought we were just making jokes.

 

You really think the Eagles are going to average around 60-70 yards rushing in the last 7 games?

 

I've been making light of the "top 3 RB" absolute we've been fed wrt McCoy.

 

He's not.

 

But if the spread between the top RB and whatever McCoy is is going to be 500 plus yards then maybe "top 3" isn't really a great point of reference. Are running backs who finish within 500 yards of McCoy deserving to be lumped into a class with him?

 

I think it's very realistic for the Eagles to average 60-70 yards/game going forward. Stack the box and force ButtFumble to beat you.

 

As for not being top-3, please. He had the 3rd most rushing yards since the Eagles drafted him in 2009. Just because AP is on another level, it doesn't negate that fact. Or that he led the NFL in rushing in 2013, when AP wasn't injured or suspended.

[John from Riverside]

 

 

Oh I thought we were just making jokes.

 

You really think the Eagles are going to average around 60-70 yards rushing in the last 7 games?

 

I've been making light of the "top 3 RB" absolute we've been fed wrt McCoy.

 

He's not.

 

But if the spread between the top RB and whatever McCoy is is going to be 500 plus yards then maybe "top 3" isn't really a great point of reference. Are running backs who finish within 500 yards of McCoy deserving to be lumped into a class with him?

LOL

[Bill from NYC]

But I am used to these arguments.......I told people Mike Williams would be a bust and they should have taken McKinnie.......and initially Williams looked good and McKinnie held out and I got a Williams/McKinnie update every week from my fellow TSW'ers.

 

McKinnie had a very long productive career as an NFL LT.......by definition a good use of a high draft pick.....Williams became one of the great draft busts of his era.

Ouch! I have been trying for years to forget about that disastrous pick! I think that today, RTs are becoming more important week by week. That said, in those days for a RT to be selected at #4, I would want him to be as good as Erik Williams (imo the best RT ever) or Bob Brown. Did they project Williams to LT at some point. Probably but he weighed at least 350 and had a bad ankle.

 

Unbelievable.

 

 

I know how you don't care as much as I do about 1st round picks but choices like that actually cripple a franchise.

[John from Riverside]

Ouch! I have been trying for years to forget about that disastrous pick! I think that today, RTs are becoming more important week by week. That said, in those days for a RT to be selected at #4, I would want him to be as good as Erik Williams (imo the best RT ever) or Bob Brown. Did they project Williams to LT at some point. Probably but he weighed at least 350 and had a bad ankle.

 

Unbelievable.

 

 

I know how you don't care as much as I do about 1st round picks but choices like that actually cripple a franchise.

Throw Maybin in there as well......

 

Just very very bad picks

[3rdand12]

But the year in the middle (his first with Chip Kelly and the last year in Philly his line was healthy) he led the league in rushing and had 5.1 yards per carry.... and the other two years he had 4.2 YPC while his replacement is getting 3.6 in the same offense this year.

 

The Eagles used 7 different offensive line combinations with 10 different players during the year and all of their subs were terrible. The starting RT was suspended the 1st 4 weeks. He was also without Evan Mathis in weeks 2-8. In weeks 2-4 when both he AND Lane Johnson were out (amongst others in some of them) here's Shady's YPC 4.2, 1.2, 1.7. The 4 weeks after the RT came back? 3.4, 6.8, 4.2, 4.9. The starting RG (Todd Herremans) went out for the year starting in week 9, week 9's YPC? 1.6 Matt Tobin was RG that week and the next week when Shady averaged 3.8 YPC. They replaced Tobin with Andrew Gardner in week 10 because Tobin stunk. Shady's YPC the following two weeks with Gardner as the only replacement was 6.2 and 6.4. Jason Kelce the center, went out for the year in week 12, so again, with 2 starting O-lineman out YPC dropped from 6.2 and 6.4 to 2.9, 4.0, 4.0, and 5.8 to finish out the year.

 

So, in terms of cherry picking stats to prove a point. If I chose week 4 last year vs. San Francisco when Shady carried the ball 10 times for 17 yards for a 1.7 average is that fair when, in that game, there were four backups starting on the O-Line? Only Jason Peters was where he belonged. Both guards and the center were backups and the normal RG was at RT. The games where Shady's YPC was the worst were the games where there was the most turmoil on the o-line. That's completely understandable. When things were somewhat stable he was great.

 

I'm aware PFF graded the Eagles as the best run blocking line in the league last year. In their own write up they comment on how that was based on the strength of their starters and that ALL of their backups struggled when they had to play. They had to play a lot. It was a big issue. The line was bad to the point that the Eagles own website (usually the rah rah everything is awesome source of information) talked about how the line took a step back in 2014 and how they need to be better in 2015.

well, i would like to put you on retainer Good Sir! detailed and concise.

[That's No Moon]

At this point, I'd be surprised if Murray and Mathews combined rush for what Shady did last year.

Ryan Mathews is now injured...again.

 

Chip Kelly is also so enamored with DeMarco Murray that he chose to pass on 2nd and goal from the 9 down 1 point with 4:30 to play. To his credit he did give Murray the ball on first down...from the 8. Murray, Mathews, and Sproles combined for 79 yards on 33 carries yesterday. 2.4 YPC.

 

But hey, Alonso made 4 tackles so that went well. If you're keeping count at home that makes 12 for the season along with 0 sacks, 0 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 1 pass defensed and 1 INT (the same pass BTW). He's played in 4 games and is 25 y/o with 2 ACL reconstructions on the same knee, a third procedure on that knee this year to "clean it out", and tendinitis in that same knee in pre-season. There are different kinds of high mileage. Kiko is definitely one of them.

[BADOLBILZ]

Ryan Mathews is now injured...again.

 

Chip Kelly is also so enamored with DeMarco Murray that he chose to pass on 2nd and goal from the 9 down 1 point with 4:30 to play. To his credit he did give Murray the ball on first down...from the 8. Murray, Mathews, and Sproles combined for 79 yards on 33 carries yesterday. 2.4 YPC.

 

But hey, Alonso made 4 tackles so that went well. If you're keeping count at home that makes 12 for the season along with 0 sacks, 0 tackles for loss, 0 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 1 pass defensed and 1 INT (the same pass BTW). He's played in 4 games and is 25 y/o with 2 ACL reconstructions on the same knee, a third procedure on that knee this year to "clean it out", and tendinitis in that same knee in pre-season. There are different kinds of high mileage. Kiko is definitely one of them.

 

All I can tell you guys is that I wouldn't get too hardened in your positions because I'm rarely wrong.

 

It's a long, long list.

 

The LIKELIHOOD is that the McCoy deal will end very badly....far short of it's length......and you guys will be left looking crazy on TSW rationalizing how it was worth $28M-$30M for two years of what he ends up doing.

 

I HOPE I am wrong.......I love watching him play well and the Bills subsequently win......there are no trophies for being right on TSW......but step back for a moment and tell me this......if you were told last spring that McCoy would be 14th in the NFL in rushing after 9 games would you be happy with that?

 

Because that's the way it goes with high mileage backs......one minute they look like they still got it......then something happens and in the end the results aren't there.

 

Bills fans saw it with Thurman Thomas. Once he went into decline we were always told he was thisclose to being back to his old self. Then he'd show flashes......and then it would be gone again.

[John from Riverside]

 

All I can tell you guys is that I wouldn't get too hardened in your positions because I'm rarely wrong.

 

It's a long, long list.

 

The LIKELIHOOD is that the McCoy deal will end very badly....far short of it's length......and you guys will be left looking crazy on TSW rationalizing how it was worth $28M-$30M for two years of what he ends up doing.

 

I HOPE I am wrong.......I love watching him play well and the Bills subsequently win......there are no trophies for being right on TSW......but step back for a moment and tell me this......if you were told last spring that McCoy would be 14th in the NFL in rushing after 9 games would you be happy with that?

 

Because that's the way it goes with high mileage backs......one minute they look like they still got it......then something happens and in the end the results aren't there.

 

Bills fans saw it with Thurman Thomas. Once he went into decline we were always told he was thisclose to being back to his old self. Then he'd show flashes......and then it would be gone again.

So basically you are hoping for a bills player to fail.....but not really

 

But you are

[Boatdrinks]

Who really cares what they paid McCoy or most any player, really? His YPC is pretty good. He missed some games and had the hammy issue early, so he isn't going to be up there in total yds. So what. He's playing well right now and the Bills need that to continue going forward. Why spend so much time worrying about how many years they are going to get out of this player if that player? Do we want to play GM or watch the team play? Obviously the team is working under different financial parameters than we saw with RW owning the team. They obviously had the $$ to do it so whatever. A few years down the road players that are here now won't be . No need to worry so much about the cap.

[BADOLBILZ]

So basically you are hoping for a bills player to fail.....but not really

 

But you are

 

Ridiculous.

 

I never rooted against CJ or Stevie or Mike Williams etc..

 

Good example was Fitz......I was the first on TSW to identify that he couldn't accurately throw deep.....much to the denial of TSW.........and that teams were going to start squatting on the throws he could make.

 

I loved me some Fitz....would have been a great story......but when the jig is up, it's up.

 

This is a hobby to me and as such I like to understand what I am watching and it isn't always good.

 

I've seen McCoy pass on the tough yards in Philly...and even got a look at it early with the Bills.....I've heard that he needs to be motivated........his ypc numbers have been average 2 of the last 3 years.....he has had a ****-ton of carries in such a short time...he's got the mileage of an older back......and he has personality issues and was just given a 5 year contract with 2/3 guaranteed to assuage his displeasure at being traded to Buffalo.

 

There is just A LOT to be concerned about with Shady and the bottom line is that he is 14th in the NFL in rushing and hammy and shoulder injuries are very possibly just signs of wear and tear.

 

But by all means play your "you aren't as big a fan as me card".

[John from Riverside]

 

Ridiculous.

 

I never rooted against CJ or Stevie or Mike Williams etc..

 

Good example was Fitz......I was the first on TSW to identify that he couldn't accurately throw deep.....much to the denial of TSW.........and that teams were going to start squatting on the throws he could make.

 

I loved me some Fitz....would have been a great story......but when the jig is up, it's up.

 

This is a hobby to me and as such I like to understand what I am watching and it isn't always good.

 

I've seen McCoy pass on the tough yards in Philly...and even got a look at it early with the Bills.....I've heard that he needs to be motivated........his ypc numbers have been average 2 of the last 3 years.....he has had a ****-ton of carries in such a short time...he's got the mileage of an older back......and he has personality issues and was just given a 5 year contract with 2/3 guaranteed to assuage his displeasure at being traded to Buffalo.

 

There is just A LOT to be concerned about with Shady and the bottom line is that he is 14th in the NFL in rushing and hammy and shoulder injuries are very possibly just signs of wear and tear.

 

But by all means play your "you aren't as big a fan as me card".

Thank you...I will