Webster Guy Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 There has been a lot of talk about the NFL replay system and how to make it better. We all know it's a relatively new system that has now become a big part of the NFL game and its here to stay. We also know that there are times when it doesn't work, like a few weeks ago in the Chiefs Bengals game when Mike Carey the referee consultant for the network says Kelce's arm clearly hit the ground before the ball came loose and the play should be overturned, then the refs spend another 60 seconds looking at it and rule the exact opposite, all while looking at the exact same camera angles that Carey was. That kind of stuff is strange, but it's bound to happen and is probably not fixable (two trained officials looking at the same replay but drawing opposite conclusions), but what IS fixable is to allow the coaches to challenge all plays, as Belichick has recently said he supports. The Calvin Johnson fumble a few weeks ago against Seattle at the end of the game should have resulted in Detroit the ball at the 1 yard line. The refs gave the Seahawks the ball by mistake even though they clearly batted the ball out of the endzone intentionally. It cost Detroit the game (by the way, that would put Seattle at 2-5 right now. Wow.) The refs made a mistake, but the Lions couldn't review the play because the NFL says you can only look at some plays but not others, and intentionally batting the ball out of bounds is apparently on that list. Its ridiculous. You have all this time and energy into a system and doesn't work on a crucial play with an obvious mistake (for those who knew the rule, which incredibly wasn't the refs, the announcers, me, or the guy who batted the ball out of the endzone). If we opened up the replay to all calls and THEN Detroit's coach doesn't throw the red flag, it's their fault for not knowing the rules, but if they DID know the rule and can't throw the flag, then the replay system needs tweaking because it's not living up to what it's supposed to do. Murph said in the post game show that each team has a replay designate that tell them to throw the flag or not. They see the replays upstairs immediately, and have access to all the angles they have in New York where the replay officials are looking. Belichick says if you're going to have instant replay, then stop limiting the challenges to only certain plays. To say "well we can't really determine intent on film, that has to be real time" (a common argument against opening replay up to all calls) simply isn't true. Pass interference and illegal contact are much easier to call in HD slow motion, as would a hands to the face or facemask call. Say for example Rex is told by his guy through the headset that Robey was obviously playing the ball and clearly did not interfere illegally with the receiver on that last critical drive, which is what everyone saw except the line ref who wasn't really in position to make the call anyway. Rex throws the flag, they look at it and make the determination. Remember, the system is designed so that the evidence has to be conclusive, if it isn't, the call stands and everyone moves on, not feeling robbed by a ref's mistake. The sames rules would apply as they do now with replays. Lose a timeout if there is no overturn, and only 2 per game allowed. I would also cut down the time allowed to look at the play by 15 seconds, if you can't see it in the time allowed then the play stands. The NFL is averaging 2 minutes per call, that is too long as we all know watching the angles on our own tv's. Usually we can tell from our couches in 15 seconds, the goal would be 90 seconds. They already shaved 30 seconds of the average review in the first 8 years, keep it going. Make it faster and better, but most importantly let's allow all teams the chance to get an honest review on any play they feel was called incorrectly. I care most about getting it right, not having to live with whatever the ref thinks they saw. Sincerely, Robey's mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 good luck with that.. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 When you open one door, 100 more open. Fouls occur on every play and the current replay system is built with a lot of consideration to that. If anything was possible regarding intent based calls, PI, Holding, etc, a separate but similar process as current replay should be in effect. Coaches can challenge 1 intent based call per game. If they get it correct they get another challenge. If you allow all things to be challenged the game would just get so boring and slowed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 While I agree that every play should be reviewable its impossible for everything to be reviewable. Forward progress, for instance. Once the refs blow the whislte, thats it, play over. So if they blow the whistle and a guy fumbles the ball and the other team jumps on it how can you award them the ball when the other team simply stopped at the whistle? The play was over, you cant suddenly say, no it wasnt! If they started letting teams review things like that players would not stop at the whistle and refs would quickly lose control of the game. Thats just one example, there are plenty more. So in theory you are right but in practice its more difficult than just saying everything is reviewable. Also, I hate the 2 red flag rule. How many reviews you get shouldnt be determined by the ineptitute of the officials. You should not lose a review if you throw a red flag and its overturned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzu Bill Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 When it comes down to it, there is probably some penalty or another on every play. It would not be a fun game to see the last two minutes, with coaches throwing flags trying to get refs to call holding on an irrelevant player. It would be nice if they allow coaches to challenge penalty calls related to players touching or targeted with the ball, simply because these plays tend to be more likely to decide outcomes of games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judman Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Way to go OP! I'd also suggest that the number of challenges stay the same (2 and a 3rd earned if you get both of them correct) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 OP gives two examples where his plan would not have changed the outcome. The Kelce play was reviewed and still was called the way ot was called. Challenges won't change that. The Megatron fumble would have produced no red flag review because no one anywhwere at the time seemed to know the rule. Only after the TV broadcast dug up Jerry Austen to tell us all it was illegal did it become an issue. I just don't see referees in a remote location reviewing PI flags will be very motivated to start reversing these types of calls by refs. Want fewer flags? Get rid of some types of penalties. Every acknowledges offensive line holding happens on every down (as it is currently defined), yet it is rarely called--and the penalty is severe. Just get rid of the penalty. Let them do what thye want. If in a one on one, the D-lineman gets taken down by his opponent, too bad. As long as there aren't ijurious blocks, let them have at it. The current system of calling that penalty is a joke. Same thing with pick plays---it is nearly impossible for refs to see what is legal and what is not in real time, so get rid of another rule that can't possibly be enforced in a meaningful way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 OP gives two examples where his plan would not have changed the outcome. The Kelce play was reviewed and still was called the way ot was called. Challenges won't change that. The Megatron fumble would have produced no red flag review because no one anywhwere at the time seemed to know the rule. Only after the TV broadcast dug up Jerry Austen to tell us all it was illegal did it become an issue. I just don't see referees in a remote location reviewing PI flags will be very motivated to start reversing these types of calls by refs. Want fewer flags? Get rid of some types of penalties. Every acknowledges offensive line holding happens on every down (as it is currently defined), yet it is rarely called--and the penalty is severe. Just get rid of the penalty. Let them do what thye want. If in a one on one, the D-lineman gets taken down by his opponent, too bad. As long as there aren't ijurious blocks, let them have at it. The current system of calling that penalty is a joke. Same thing with pick plays---it is nearly impossible for refs to see what is legal and what is not in real time, so get rid of another rule that can't possibly be enforced in a meaningful way. The ref staring at the play in the endzone said he knew the rule but by the time it was being reviewed it couldnt be overturned anyway because its not reviewable for some reason. Supports my point perfectly and is one of the reasons the nfl will eventually open up what is reviewable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Every big play will result in a challenge No thanks. As it is every otherbexciting play gets flagged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haplo848 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I'm told in rugby that there is a ref that reviews the other refs calls in game and can overturn them. I think the NFL should instantiate something like that, so that when you have a blatantly bad call, you can actually do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I agree if your going to use it , use it all the time on every thing ! And especially on a call like the call that went against Robey ! When a bad call determine the outcome of a game that is not good for the game or the team !! Another thing that has been talked about is making the Refs full time NFL employees, which IMHO with what the players get paid , plus the fact that everyone of the players are full time basically why shouldn't the Refs focus be on the game all year round ! it just doesn't make sense to have part time help when it comes to these guys & the calls they are screwing up & because of those calls the out come of the games changing they should be full time & if not just like when the players make a bad hit & get fined, then when a ref makes a bad call he should be fined too !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I'd rather see them try to school up the refs and hold them accountable. If a ref blows an obvious call (s)he gets suspended for 4 games and to be re instated (s)he must pass a 100 question test on the rules to get back in. I'm also 100% behind Mr. WEO's idea of simplifying rules. I'd add, allow DBs to bump players wherever before the ball is thrown. Smart OCs can figure out what to do about it. Change a catch to catch it and get 2 feet down. Dump the whole "football move" and "process of the catch" nonsense. I prefer less replays to more. There's already too much standing around in football. We don't need more IMHO. ONE question for the OP. How can you challenge everything if you only get 2 challenges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harryhood280 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) You can't give coaches the ability to throw a flag for a penalty when no penalty is called. The LB was held, look! If that was the case, as we know, you could throw your flag on any big play and probably be rewarded. What they need is referee experts reviewing every penalty call in slow motion HD. They already do it on scoring plays and contentious plays in the last two minutes. We never notice that process slowing down the game. Whenever a referee throws a flag, they Immediately are fed into the "review center" via their microphone. They say who committed what foul. The experts review the offending play and either confirm or reject the penalty. Upon doing so, the head ref on the field either calls the penalty or says there was no penalty on the play. It's almost 2016, a multi-billion dollar corporation (the NFL) can and must institute a policy like this. Eliminate the ridiculous judgement calls and on field conferences. These are HUMANS, not machines, making game changing decisions in real time from one angle. They absolutely should be supported by modern technology, and any reluctancy from the league on this matter only furthers the arguments of the conspiracy theorists. If they can't manage that, simplify and relax the non-injurious rules. The current state of the game is maddening to the point of being unwatchable. Edited October 27, 2015 by Harryhood280 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The ref staring at the play in the endzone said he knew the rule but by the time it was being reviewed it couldnt be overturned anyway because its not reviewable for some reason. Supports my point perfectly and is one of the reasons the nfl will eventually open up what is reviewable. OP is about coaches throwing red flags for reviews. They, not the refs, would be initiating the review--and they can't throw the flag if they don't know the rule. So nothing would have changed on that play. And there was nothing stopping a ref on the field "in the endzone" from speaking up (throwing his flag) on that play. Refs don't need a review to throw a flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Make PI calls reviewable in the 4th quarter That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 When you open one door, 100 more open. Fouls occur on every play and the current replay system is built with a lot of consideration to that. If anything was possible regarding intent based calls, PI, Holding, etc, a separate but similar process as current replay should be in effect. Coaches can challenge 1 intent based call per game. If they get it correct they get another challenge. If you allow all things to be challenged the game would just get so boring and slowed down. Yup. So what happens if they were reviewing the Calvin Johnson fumble a few weeks ago and in the background there is a clear hands-to-the-face foul being committed by a Lion? The existence of replay has made officiating worse. The more you add it to, the worse the ref's instincts will be and the more arbitrary the rules interpretations will become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I have a hard time believing that this will spiral out of control. Teams get 2 challenges (which I always thought was stupid...teams should have unlimited challenges as long as they have timeouts left--but that's another story), so where does the idea that ever single play gets challenged come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Make PI calls reviewable in the 4th quarter That's all. or maybe on 3rd or 4th down plays only. At lease have someone with access to the all 22's weigh in to the people on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Even with review the expert refs who do commentary have a different opinion than the on field ref about 50% of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The PI and Facemasks are the Biggies, IMO. Even if their is 'casual contact' between WR & DB, if it doesn't interfere with the attempt at the catch, then make it reviewable. As for facemask, I still get bummed thinking about the AFC Championship game at Cincy where Bruce was flagged for it against Boomer, giving them a 1st down on 3rd down where they eventually scored the winning TD. Bruce smacked him hard in the upper chest, causing Esiason's head to come down. The Bengals facemasks were black and their jerseys were black. The ref couldnt differentiate between Bruce's hand and these 2 elements. It could have been a very different outcome. I know, I know, get over it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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