Phantom call on Robey =Royally Screwed in England

[Luxy312]

I've said this many many times before. The single biggest factor to winning and losing games is turnovers. In about 98.5% historically of games in the NFL where a team goes -3 in turnovers, they lose. EJ alone was -3 yesterday and the Jaguars scored 21 points off of those turnovers. Robey was one play. The refs missed plenty of other calls for both teams. Picking just one play/call is myopic at best.

[26CornerBlitz]

I've said this many many times before. The single biggest factor to winning and losing games is turnovers. In about 98.5% historically of games in the NFL where a team goes -3 in turnovers, they lose. EJ alone was -3 yesterday and the Jaguars scored 21 points off of those turnovers. Robey was one play. The refs missed plenty of other calls for both teams. Picking just one play/call is myopic at best.

 

All plays are not equivalent. The timing and circumstances of the phantom DPI call had a major impact on the game from a win probability perspective.

[Luxy312]

 

All plays are not equivalent. The timing and circumstances of the phantom DPI call had a major impact on the game from a win probability perspective.

 

OK. So the fact that our pick 6 should have been a P.I. call doesn't matter? I weigh that just as big as Robey. Easy just to pick one though to axe grind, isn't it?

[26CornerBlitz]

 

OK. So the fact that our pick 6 should have been a P.I. call doesn't matter? I weigh that just as big as Robey. Easy just to pick one though to axe grind, isn't it?

It shouldn't have with the ball not catchable.

[CodeMonkey]

It shouldn't have with the ball not catchable.

Not directed at you. But if that play were the other way around with the Bills on offense, there would be a thread (if not more) about how it should have been PI absolutely and cost the Bills the game. That much is undeniable.

Edited October 26, 2015 by CodeMonkey

[What a Tuel]

Not directed at you. But if that play were the other way around with the Bills on offense, there would be a thread (if not more) about how it should have been PI absolutely and cost the Bills the game. That much is undeniable.

 

In my opinion there is a huge difference between what was not called, that should have been, and what was called but should not have been. Everyone is looking for consistency, but the officials should not be affecting the game as much as they are with no course for correcting flags thrown in error.

[JESSEFEFFER]

The receiver went down, Robey was still up and the Jags sideline went crazy begging for a call. The side judge closest to their bench but in no position to actually have seen any contact if it had existed, caved to the pressure and threw his flag. Ouch. So much for the Bills attempt to pick themselves off the canvas.

 

The CFL has replay review of PI, both calls and no calls. I think they do alright with it. It's one of the biggest holes in NFL's replay review system as these are amongst the most critical penalties called or not called and the old, fat refs running down the field are often in horrible position to see the play.

[truth on hold]

The receiver went down, Robey was still up and the Jags sideline went crazy begging for a call. The side judge closest to their bench but in no position to actually have seen any contact if it had existed, caved to the pressure and threw his flag. Ouch. So much for the Bills attempt to pick themselves off the canvas.

 

The CFL has replay review of PI, both calls and no calls. I think they do alright with it. It's one of the biggest holes in NFL's replay review system as these are amongst the most critical penalties called or not called and the old, fat refs running down the field are often in horrible position to see the play.

I saw that too, Bradley was going batshit on the sidelines and when the flag came out started celebrating. He was right on top of the play. Really a piss poor showing IMO as there was no foul. What was he celebrating? An awful call? Edited October 26, 2015 by JTSP

[bbb]

Another awful call in a long and awful season.

 

That about sums it up

 

[Gray Beard]

I'm not convinced a review would help with most PI calls. There is almost always some sort of bumping, hand swatting, etc. when a receiver and a defender are side by side. They can rationalize any call that they make or don't make. Although, with the play being discussed, it sure looked like Robey was playing the ball and it seems inappropriate to call that a PI penalty.

[What a Tuel]

I'm not convinced a review would help with most PI calls. There is almost always some sort of bumping, hand swatting, etc. when a receiver and a defender are side by side. They can rationalize any call that they make or don't make. Although, with the play being discussed, it sure looked like Robey was playing the ball and it seems inappropriate to call that a PI penalty.

 

These are the types of calls I think a challenge would help. Challenges are limited so it's not like everyone would be challenging every called penalty, but if a coach sees a blatantly bad call, he should be able to throw the red flag for officials to take another look. The officials can still make the judgement call that there was hand swatting, and bumping and whatnot and uphold the penalty, but it would help reverse penalties called in error especially critical ones such as this.

Edited October 26, 2015 by What a Tuel

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

 

These are the types of calls I think a challenge would help. Challenges are limited so it's not like everyone would be challenging every called penalty, but if a coach sees a blatantly bad call, he should be able to throw the red flag for officials to take another look. The officials can still make the judgement call that there was hand swatting, and bumping and whatnot and uphold the penalty, but it would help reverse penalties called in error especially critical ones such as this.

And why does a judgment call have to be made live? Wouldn't it be better to make them in slow mo replay, where you have time to see everything.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

It shouldn't have with the ball not catchable.

Ah I see you have felt them !

The refereeing apologists are out again.

[Utah John]

OK, I get it, the Robey call was a bad call that led to the Jags having the chance to score the TD when the Bills D screwed up, that won the game. All true. Note that the Bills D could still have clamped down and stopped the Jags last-gasp chance.

 

After that, the Bills got the ball. On first down, they got 9 1/2 yards and it was spotted as a 9 yard gain. On second down they got 1/2 a yard and it was spotted as no gain. If there's ever a replay available, go back and check. They should have had first down at that point. On third down, doofus Manuel screwed up the QB sneak, and on fourth down a lousy play call had Manuel running to his left. He had Hogan open but instead of rifling it in he flipped it, and the D back made the breakup. So, where did the failure come in? Was it bad spots on first and second down? Was it a bad QB sneak? Was it a stupid play call and a pass that wouldn't be good enough in high school? It's always a combination. If the refs just did their jobs, the Bills wouldn't have to overcome the refs' mistakes.

 

But, two points. The Bills got favorable spots at times. This happens a lot, that the offense (no matter who's playing) gets a little extra, and quite often gets a first down they didn't deserve. And, second, why does it come down to such a narrow margin of victory or loss, when this powerful team is playing a 1-5 loser?

[SF Bills Fan]

Bad call but I'm not going to point to that as an excuse for the loss. The loss was in a myriad of other bad plays, mistake,s poor tackles etc.

[jeffismagic]

OK, I get it, the Robey call was a bad call that led to the Jags having the chance to score the TD when the Bills D screwed up, that won the game. All true. Note that the Bills D could still have clamped down and stopped the Jags last-gasp chance.

 

After that, the Bills got the ball. On first down, they got 9 1/2 yards and it was spotted as a 9 yard gain. On second down they got 1/2 a yard and it was spotted as no gain. If there's ever a replay available, go back and check. They should have had first down at that point. On third down, doofus Manuel screwed up the QB sneak, and on fourth down a lousy play call had Manuel running to his left. He had Hogan open but instead of rifling it in he flipped it, and the D back made the breakup. So, where did the failure come in? Was it bad spots on first and second down? Was it a bad QB sneak? Was it a stupid play call and a pass that wouldn't be good enough in high school? It's always a combination. If the refs just did their jobs, the Bills wouldn't have to overcome the refs' mistakes.

 

But, two points. The Bills got favorable spots at times. This happens a lot, that the offense (no matter who's playing) gets a little extra, and quite often gets a first down they didn't deserve. And, second, why does it come down to such a narrow margin of victory or loss, when this powerful team is playing a 1-5 loser?

 

The Bills chance at winning the game if that call was not made was around 95% or more. Their chances went down to 65% or so with one call.

[ToGoGo]

This is a fallacy. The broadcast fees paid to the league by the networks were already set in stone and took effect after the 2013 season concluded; $28b over nine years, regardless whether or not larger market teams succeed.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Which are dependent on TV ratings. Small market teams bring less TV viewership. The NFL has to protect it's brand from lower ratings.

 

It also needs to keep games close to ensure advertising in the 4th quarter is as valuable in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd quarter.

Does it not seem strange to anyone that in a league of "parity" the worst teams year after year are the smaller market teams or the teams that bring the lowest TV viewership.

 

Buffalo, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Detroit, Oakland.

[Punching Bag]

 

Which are dependent on TV ratings. Small market teams bring less TV viewership. The NFL has to protect it's brand from lower ratings.

 

It also needs to keep games close to ensure advertising in the 4th quarter is as valuable in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd quarter.

Does it not seem strange to anyone that in a league of "parity" the worst teams year after year are the smaller market teams or the teams that bring the lowest TV viewership.

 

Buffalo, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Detroit, Oakland.

Green Bay

[ToGoGo]

Green Bay

 

One of the largest nationwide fanbases. Historic franchise. They get ratings.

 

Fourth largest to be exact: http://deadspin.com/5980852/who-is-americas-favorite-nfl-team-facebook-data-offer-a-clear-winner

Edited October 27, 2015 by musichunch

[K-9]

 

Which are dependent on TV ratings. Small market teams bring less TV viewership. The NFL has to protect it's brand from lower ratings.

 

It also needs to keep games close to ensure advertising in the 4th quarter is as valuable in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd quarter.

Does it not seem strange to anyone that in a league of "parity" the worst teams year after year are the smaller market teams or the teams that bring the lowest TV viewership.

 

Buffalo, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Detroit, Oakland.

Green Bay, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, New Orleans.

 

I wouldn't include Detroit on your list of smaller TV markets, either. It's in the top 15, ahead of Seattle.

 

The size of any team's television market has nothing to do with how much money a team gets in shared broadcast revenues. As I said earlier, it is a fixed amount over the next nine years when it kicked in after the '13 season and that was established several years ago. For instance, when LA has a team or two again, it won't even move the needle on television ratings and the NFL won't be in a position to demand more as a result.

 

If the NFL were like baseball or basketball and they were free to cut their own local deals, it would be a different story. Obviously, the TV ad dollars are gonna be more plentiful where there are more TV viewers to attract them. But the NFL doesn't operate that way.

 

TV advertising rates don't fluctuate according to when in the game an ad is run, whether it's 1st quarter or fourth. There is something to the idea that advertisers seek to maximize the cost per viewer which is why they prefer their ads to be shown earlier in games, but that is not really a factor in regular season games and when an ad is placed is based on a first come, first served basis. Some advertisers buy their time early on, others get discounts; etc. long before any games kickoff, let alone when the two SB teams are realized.

 

If you were to argue that the league seeks to favor big market teams or keep the games close for gambling purposes, I'd be willing to entertain the thought. TV market size is just not a concern given the nature of the revenue sharing system in place.

 

GO BILLS!!!