birdog1960 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Cassels Int's stay in the air longer, would give the defense time to rest. Definetly a better option. yes. it's your opinion so it's easy money, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Right. Although, it seems like the trend in Buffalo with Whaley has been for the HC to push for QB options beside EJ. Last year it was the Orton signing at the end of camp and this year Tyrod's acquisition in free agency along with the Cassel trade. It's why I suspect Whaley didn't want competition at QB and dragged his feet with Marrone wanting Orton (although KO probably didn't want to go to a camp) and this year Rex winning out by getting them to sign 2 EJ competitors. I completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I can't root for the Cowboys, so I didn't care one way or the other. I was happy to see Coughlin--who I like--win. McCown was the guy, but the Browns outspent us and (from what I read) promised him more of a chance. He's a better player than Cassel at this point, and that's been made clear this season. He's playing pretty well for the Browns even though the record doesn't show it. Agreed that McCown>Cassel/Manuel, but he still sucks. Such a predictable response. Whenever Buffalo shows their QB situation is poor, we always see this post. Well, as I've noted, OBD has been horrible identifying QB's and when they do, the player has been a bust. There are muliple QB's taken from 2011-2014 in the 2nd and 3rd who are better than Manuel. And they're improving where EJ isn't. Take your pick. Such a predictable non-response. Buddy Nix retired in May 2013. How are you blaming 2011-2013 on Whaley? He was handed the reigns with a 1st rd QB in May 2013 with the plan to let him learn behind a seasoned vet. Anything from then to now, sure, he owns it, but again, who SHOULD he have picked up? Hoyer? McCown? Fitz? Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Agreed that McCown>Cassel/Manuel, but he still sucks. Such a predictable non-response. Buddy Nix retired in May 2013. How are you blaming 2011-2013 on Whaley? He was handed the reigns with a 1st rd QB in May 2013 with the plan to let him learn behind a seasoned vet. Anything from then to now, sure, he owns it, but again, who SHOULD he have picked up? Hoyer? McCown? Fitz? Who? It's pretty well established that the Manuel pick was Whaley's pick. He is the one who scouted him and the other QBs intensively (not Nix), and he's the one who set the board (which is on record). Nix was nominally in charge, but Manuel was most definitely a Whaley pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 It's pretty well established that the Manuel pick was Whaley's pick. He is the one who scouted him and the other QBs intensively (not Nix), and he's the one who set the board (which is on record). Nix was nominally in charge, but Manuel was most definitely a Whaley pick. Do you have any evidence for the bolded? Seems like it's primarily only pretty well established for the Anti EJ/Whaley crowd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Cassel is garbage. Please stop propping this guy up. Thank you!!! The people pushing this stupid line about the "mistake" of dealing Cassel can not possibly have actually looked up his 11 years of statistical sub-mediocrity. PLEASE LOOK IT UP. EJ's normal is the BETTER PART of Cassel's weak career. And oh, golly, Cassel gets a chance to play, and pulls a 1 TD 3 INT game with a 63.0 rating. EJ 2 TD 2 INT and a 75.3 rating. What was I thinking - fire Whaley on the plane! IDIOTS. Edited October 26, 2015 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 He was handed the reigns with a 1st rd QB in May 2013 with the plan to let him learn behind a seasoned vet. Anything from then to now, sure, he owns it, but again, who SHOULD he have picked up? Hoyer? McCown? Fitz? Who? How about Bridgewater or Carr? Yes, it's hindsight, but Whaley gave up two picks for Watkins when all he had was Manuel and his own delusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 How about Bridgewater or Carr? Yes, it's hindsight, but Whaley gave up two picks for Watkins when all he had was Manuel and his own delusions. You have to look at the situation at the time, not looking back. EJ was a high upside project QB already on the roster who played pretty well in his first year. I have no problem with not selecting Carr or Bridgewater there as neither were sure fire anything. They had some supporters and detractors just like EJ. If the Bills passed on a Luck or Roethlisberger, then yeah I understand. I'm not going to expect the Bills to draft another project QB after EJ had just completed a decent rookie season. After 2014, that is when I started the clock for Whaley to find a QB . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I haven't read this entire thread but I'm just curious if a consensus has been reached? Is Whaley's job safe now that Cassel also sucked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 It's pretty well established that the Manuel pick was Whaley's pick. He is the one who scouted him and the other QBs intensively (not Nix), and he's the one who set the board (which is on record). Nix was nominally in charge, but Manuel was most definitely a Whaley pick. Whaley has been in the Kirk chair since after the 2012 draft, which was really the last one Nix spearheaded. Nominal is a good way to describe Buddy's involvement between then and the time he officially left the team. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Such a predictable non-response. Buddy Nix retired in May 2013. How are you blaming 2011-2013 on Whaley? He was handed the reigns with a 1st rd QB in May 2013 with the plan to let him learn behind a seasoned vet. Anything from then to now, sure, he owns it, but again, who SHOULD he have picked up? Hoyer? McCown? Fitz? Who? Do you think that Buddy one day just ambled up to Russ Smithers-Brandon and said he was going to retire? I don't, and suspect that Whaley took on more of a personnel management (i.e. decision making) role in early 2013 leading to his promotion to GM. And that includes (as Dave McB noted) scouting and picking a QB he could feature. Why would the Bills permit Nix to take a QB his successor would have to live and die on? If you do, then we're done here. For what it's worth the Bills probably would have been better off with Fitz, and that guy defines what it means to be a journeyman. Edited October 26, 2015 by BillsVet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) You have to look at the situation at the time, not looking back. EJ was a high upside project QB already on the roster who played pretty well in his first year. I have no problem with not selecting Carr or Bridgewater there as neither were sure fire anything. They had some supporters and detractors just like EJ. If the Bills passed on a Luck or Roethlisberger, then yeah I understand. I'm not going to expect the Bills to draft another project QB after EJ had just completed a decent rookie season. After 2014, that is when I started the clock for Whaley to find a QB . what do you think the pats* would have done in this situation? they keeping drafting qb's and they have...well you know. Edited October 26, 2015 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) what do you think the pats* would have done in this situation? they keeping drafting qb's and they have...well you know. I don't see the Pats spending a 1st on a late 1st/2nd round QB. But these are lottery tickets. Sure fire QB's go top 3. Once you are drafting mid 1st and later you are buying a lottery ticket and hoping. I do believe the Bills would have drafted a top QB talent EVEN with EJ if he was there. They would have taken a Tannehill or Newton with EJ on board. But Carr and Bridgewater were not much better rated prospects than EJ. But most fans use hindsight which is 20/20. I would have taken Russell Wilson AND Tom Brady! Sure you would have! Edited October 26, 2015 by jeffismagic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I don't see the Pats spending a 1st on a late 1st/2nd round QB. But these are lottery tickets. Sure fire QB's go top 3. Once you are drafting mid 1st and later you are buying a lottery ticket and hoping. I do believe the Bills would have drafted a top QB talent EVEN with EJ if he was there. They would have taken a Tannehill or Newton with EJ on board. But Carr and Bridgewater were not much better rated prospects than EJ. But most fans use hindsight which is 20/20. I would have taken Russell Wilson AND Tom Brady! Sure you would have! Um. They drafted Garoplo in the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I don't see the Pats spending a 1st on a late 1st/2nd round QB. But these are lottery tickets. Sure fire QB's go top 3. Once you are drafting mid 1st and later you are buying a lottery ticket and hoping. I do believe the Bills would have drafted a top QB talent EVEN with EJ if he was there. They would have taken a Tannehill or Newton with EJ on board. But Carr and Bridgewater were not much better rated prospects than EJ. But most fans use hindsight which is 20/20. I would have taken Russell Wilson AND Tom Brady! Sure you would have! so why hasn't whaley been buying lottery tickets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I completely agree. Orton dragged his feet ( stayed " retired") for awhile so he could keep the signing bonus money that the Cowboys gave him. Plus he got to spend time with family instead of going to training camp. That had zero to do with anyone at OBD. Other QB options were brought in because there was no proven starter and no proven backup. Why would Whaley or Rex or any HC not want competition. More competition = a better chance of someone being able to perform well, enabling you to keep your high paying NFL job. All this conjecture is ridiculous. I can't imagine any GM or HC would go into this season thinking the Bills were set at QB with Manuel and Jeff Tuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 yes. it's your opinion so it's easy money, right? Correct. Anything you say just go the other way. Easy money. Congrats on enjoying the loss yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Um. They drafted Garoplo in the second. How many 1st round picks have they spent on a QB since Tom Brady became their QB? That was the question. so why hasn't whaley been buying lottery tickets? He did. He bought an EJ ticket and is getting killed for it! That was 2013. Since then he has picked up TT, another lottery ticket and will buy another one this off-season if he has to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 I haven't read this entire thread but I'm just curious if a consensus has been reached? Is Whaley's job safe now that Cassel also sucked? I don't think so. As I've said elsewhere, this is less about Cassel's performance than about the relationship between the coach in year 1 of a big 5-year deal and the GM without a contract come December 31. I don't believe the coaching staff supported the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I don't see the Pats spending a 1st on a late 1st/2nd round QB. But these are lottery tickets. Sure fire QB's go top 3. Once you are drafting mid 1st and later you are buying a lottery ticket and hoping. I do believe the Bills would have drafted a top QB talent EVEN with EJ if he was there. They would have taken a Tannehill or Newton with EJ on board. But Carr and Bridgewater were not much better rated prospects than EJ. But most fans use hindsight which is 20/20. I would have taken Russell Wilson AND Tom Brady! Sure you would have! The Bills never had a shot at Newton. Of course they would have taken him. Not so sure on Tannehill. But the point about hindsight is dismissive at best. A GM of a team with no known answer at QB needs to keep drafting them until one is found. No one knew what would happen with Brady, and there was no call for drafting him. That was one in a million. You are incorrect about Bridgewater though. Entering his last college season, he was widely regarded as a top prospect, the #1 prospect by many accounts. Carr was highly thought of as well, both far more than EJ Manuel. Manuel's name didn't even start to gain traction until after the combine. He was still thought if as a 3rd or so rounder. Bridgewaters stock plummeted due to a horrendously bad pro day, not anything he did on the football field in season. These GM s are paid well and their Job is to have foresight . Yes, fans have hindsight. But the fans shouldn't have more foresight than the GM. I for one wanted DW to draft Bridgewater and see if one if them worked out. It's the most important position and should take priority over a RT or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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