BackInDaDay Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 If you have Gilmore and Drayton Florence or some other physical cb sure. But Darby isnt going to jam many CBs successfully. Also i dont think Gilmore is good at recovery he needs time to disect the play. He cant stay in the receivers pocket. And is vulnerable against double moves and slants. i'm not talking about jamming the outside man, or playing this tech with enough field for double moves.. this is a short field concept predicated on beginning the play in the wide man's path - should his intention be a quick slant, rub, or any other shallow inside route to the middle. if the man runs a short go or corner, the DB will drop back- keeping his man on his outside hip with eyes in the backfield. on a short field - especially in the red zone - speed isn't the advantage that position is. contest the inside, and use the sideline and the endline to help bracket the receiver.. maybe i'm not explaining this well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 When Darius picks up their center and hurls him at *Brady, that'll be the end of the Ace formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I know im in the vast monority but i want to see Lawson on Gronkowski i think the coverage Bandit had mentioned somewhere - LB low with a DB over the top - could be executed well with Lawson's length edit.. front him like a low post forward in b-ball example with ball on right hash - LB takes inside technique and forces him to run through him to get shallow inside, or he chips him and lets him get upfield while keeping inside position between TE and the QB. DB on top stays on top. contact comes hard - both high and low. make QB drop it in perfect. the thing is - you have to steal a DB to execute the double team. if Gronk's in the slot then Brady will option the DB to see where he gives help.. when fronting him with a LB, Brady knows the DB has to stay over the top, and his WR is in single coverage - so our CBs have to ball up when isolated Edited September 16, 2015 by BackInDaDay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) What i don't get with this formation is why even concern yourself with the run on these 4TE sets? they're clearly designed for passing and personnel mismatches. they're not going to keep lining up in a 4TE set to run the ball every down. send in personnel to cover the pass not the run. Chandlers not blowing our guys off the LOS on a run play. Chandlers main weakness was blocking off the sanp DB's can't allow the inside track to their trailing teammate.. playing inside the outside man lets the DB pick him off, before he picks off the teammate. you can't let wide men run free to the middle - for what ever reason, at whatever depth - but on the snap, no way. contest everything you can without drawing a flag. oh, and good luck jamming Gronkowski. When Gronk gets free players need eyes in the back of their heads. Best thing to do is gets hands up into the passing lane. nobody really ever gets to Brady. be passing lane aware. sure easy for me to say. But safety can call out pass!! and a hand can go up. downside of that is some Bill is getting gut punched every time. When Darius picks up their center and hurls him at *Brady, that'll be the end of the Ace formation. I mentioned this today at work. Best way to avoid the roughing the passer penalty!! i think the coverage Bandit had mentioned somewhere - LB low with a DB over the top - could be executed well with Lawson's length edit.. front him like a low post forward in b-ball example with ball on right hash - LB takes inside technique and forces him to run through him to get shallow inside, or he chips him and lets him get upfield while keeping inside position between TE and the QB. DB on top stays on top. contact comes hard - both high and low. make QB drop it in perfect. the thing is - you have to steal a DB to execute the double team. if Gronk's in the slot then Brady will option the DB to see where he gives help.. when fronting him with a LB, Brady knows the DB has to stay over the top, and his WR is in single coverage - so our CBs have to ball up when isolated and thats How Rex plays the game. Good call BIDD Edited September 16, 2015 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Bottom line is can the Bills rush get to Brady within two seconds or disguise coverage's enough so Brady can't figure out who to throw it to. The Patriots can't go five wide because they don't have 5 WR's on their roster- Edelman-Amendola-Dobson, and someone by the name of Matthew Slater. Brandon LeFell is on the PUP until Nov. The Patriots offense is evolving into more of a TE system because of the lack of the star WR's the team has usually had. Gronk when healthy is pretty much unstoppable, and Edelman is another Wes Welker who always finds a way to get open, and the first down marker. Jam Edelman, and find a way to double up on Gronk. I think their no back formations will almost exclusively be 11 personnel. Why would you take Gronk off for even your #2 WR let alone your #4? I would also take the Pats RBs aligned wide over their #5 WR (especially because 11 personnel would likely mean a LB in coverage) It's a pick your poison formation that has worked well for them. Use nickel or dime personnel to stop pass and they run very well against smaller personnel; keep your bigger LBs in and they exploit the lack of coverage ability and pass on you. They really hurt you by going hurry-up once they get you in a favorable matchup and prevent the insertion of your sub packages. Very well designed and well executed by Brady. GO BILLS!!! I expect a heavy nickel or nickel against this line up. I am a little worried about Robey in run support versus this line up but I think our base defense would get picked apart in a no huddle situation. Does anyone know how Rex defends the pats? Does he send blitzes does he stay home? He has made a reputation for himself that says that he knows how to play the pats He does blitz. Basically he likes to press cover and disguise his blitzes. Sound familiar. I am hoping that he sends Bradham, K WIlliams, and Dareus up the middle every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Is Graham coming back this week? Robey can tackle. can he tackle Gronk , eh not sure once the big fella gets moving . but he sure as heck can cover and tackle Edelman and that other guy. Can he tackle Blount? yes but i don want to ask him to do it if Le Blunt gets a head of steam !! Robey can tackle anyone at the line or coming in as a blitz option or off the snap I think their no back formations will almost exclusively be 11 personnel. Why would you take Gronk off for even your #2 WR let alone your #4? I would also take the Pats RBs aligned wide over their #5 WR (especially because 11 personnel would likely mean a LB in coverage) I expect a heavy nickel or nickel against this line up. I am a little worried about Robey in run support versus this line up but I think our base defense would get picked apart in a no huddle situation. He does blitz. Basically he likes to press cover and disguise his blitzes. Sound familiar. I am hoping that he sends Bradham, K WIlliams, and Dareus up the middle every time. Pressure up the middle is wise. worked against Luck, so Bill B will be looking for it. But give it to them anyways till they show they can deal with it ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I think their no back formations will almost exclusively be 11 personnel. Why would you take Gronk off for even your #2 WR let alone your #4? I would also take the Pats RBs aligned wide over their #5 WR (especially because 11 personnel would likely mean a LB in coverage) I expect a heavy nickel or nickel against this line up. I am a little worried about Robey in run support versus this line up but I think our base defense would get picked apart in a no huddle situation. He does blitz. Basically he likes to press cover and disguise his blitzes. Sound familiar. I am hoping that he sends Bradham, K WIlliams, and Dareus up the middle every time. Remember 2012 at home and Wanny's nickel D with Bryan Scott and "43 is the mike!?" A heavy nickel would be preferable, but who do we have to execute that ideally? The more I think about it, the more I take my chances with Bradham and Lawson. I like Brown, but he struggled in coverage last year a lot of the time. I would rather have Brady have to dink and dunk us than have then run for a million yards against us. Brady with a running game, and they have been a consistently good running team over the Brady years. I think that gets overlooked by some. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Seriously? 3 pages on this? The ace formation is nothing special. 4 TEs? Come on. This is what we're worried about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 So I guess Nigel Bradham, Manny Lawson and Preston Brown are no good. From the write up: The weakness of every AFC East competitor is their distinct lack of quality linebackers. With these sets now on film, offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels knows opposing defenses are going to try and think of ways to win these match-ups. I would expect the Patriots to run a draw play up the middle against the Bills with Dion Lewis squeezing his way for yardage, just to add another threat to the package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Seriously? 3 pages on this? The ace formation is nothing special. 4 TEs? Come on. This is what we're worried about? Oh, no! This is just one of MANY things we are worried about. We're Bills fans! But in the big picture it's just one more thing.... and still worthy of concern to some degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I've heard have Super Mario jam Gronk, then give him to Gilmore. That will just slow down Mario. If you want a big man to jam Gronk, let it be Nigel. That dud is tough and a hammer. I like Gilmore covering him. The hell with the Patriots. Bring it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Remember 2012 at home and Wanny's nickel D with Bryan Scott and "43 is the mike!?" A heavy nickel would be preferable, but who do we have to execute that ideally? The more I think about it, the more I take my chances with Bradham and Lawson. I like Brown, but he struggled in coverage last year a lot of the time. I would rather have Brady have to dink and dunk us than have then run for a million yards against us. Brady with a running game, and they have been a consistently good running team over the Brady years. I think that gets overlooked by some. GO BILLS!!! Agreed I would like to see heavy nickel; I just wasn't sure who the safety would be. Then I thought more about it and realized I really like Robey as the hard hitter. That's why I thought just straight nickel. Let's be honest both our nickel and base defenses are very legit. As I mentioned though I have the same concern as a poster up thread. My general concern on defense this game is Brady getting us in an unfavorable personnel grouping, and they are able to run no huddle to the red zone. At which point they just throw it up to Gronk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I think i'm bringing c Bryant in for darby. That gives me gilmore graham AW, lawson, Bradham in coverage and enough beef to play the run. Play the dends on the inside te and make sure they crash through gronk and chandler to try and get them jammed up at the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) I wanted to bump this because it' was so effective and has laid dormant for about two months. I think MNF would be the perfect time for the Pats to roll it out again. how would we even combat this? especially with no AW or KW. Edited November 20, 2015 by quinnearlysghost88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 I wanted to bump this because it' was so effective and has laid dormant for about two months. I think MNF would be the perfect time for the Pats to roll it out again. how would we even combat this? especially with no AW or KW. It would seem like a very Belicheck thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Good find. Key quotes: "These plays work because the Steelers have to respect the Patriots run game with the four tight ends on the field. If teams keep defensive backs on the field when the Patriots get LeGarrette Blount next week, then New England is just going to run the ball down the opposing team's throat for easy yardage. But when the teams put linebackers on the field, then Rob Gronkowski and Scott Chandler are able to win their 1-on-1 match-ups every time." "The weakness of every AFC East competitor is their distinct lack of quality linebackers." We just had to trade Kiko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Doesn't a 3-4 defense beat an ACE formation? You almost need your light coverage linebackers from circa 2009 back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts