Accurate throws versus ones and twos and threes

[Kelly the Dog]

Want to open this up for discussion because I think it's an interesting one.

 

We all wanted EJ to be more accurate throwing the football on a more consistent basis. There also seems to be two schools of thought, and both have some merit.

 

1) He played against backups and scrubs so it's not a true test.

2) He played with backups and scrubs himself so it is a wash and is a true test.

 

Here is my theory:

 

1) A lot of times, the best answer is 1). Backups and scrubs do not possess the ability and speed that starters in the NFL do, and a lot of passes you can get away with in preseason you cannot get away with in the regular season. This allows guys like Kellen Moore and Colt McCoy and Matt Barkley and other rag arm QBs to look good if not excel in preseason because they are accurate and the ball lands in the hands of the WR and are completions and people think, wow, that guy is accurate and good. But those same passes are broken up or interceptions against good CBs who break on the ball quicker and are super fast.

 

2) That said, that is only true about rag arm passers and balls that are not thrown with regular season starter velocity and accuracy. The ball that EJ threw to Davis in the endzone that was called back by double penalty may have been against a third stringer but that was a great pass against a starter in the regular season, too. That was just a great ball regardless and would have been against anyone.

 

As was the TD pass. As was the dart to the one yard line that got first and goal. As was the drop to Palmer in the endzone. Those were all good balls against the top Cbs in the game.

 

So 3) both arguments are actually true, and each individual play has to be evaluated for what kind of pass it was and how the QB threw it. There isn't a blanket statement that covers whether a QB can throw or not against ones versus twos versus threes.

 

Finally, a small caveat though, the game is slightly slower overall in preseason, as is the intensity, as is the pressure. So it's a little easier to play well IMO, which enters the equation to some degree.

 

All that said, EJ threw 4-5 great passes at the end of the game that would have been great throws against ones or twos or threes or fours or Hall of Famers. They may not have all been completions, and they weren't. But they were major league throws and exactly what we wanted to see out of him.

[FireChan]

We get it.

[Kelly the Dog]

We get it.

You don't and you're just an ass.

[FireChan]

You don't and you're just an ass.

:lol:

 

Sorry, I'm just messing with you.

[Kelly the Dog]

:lol:

 

Sorry, I'm just messing with you.

That doesn't mean you're not an ass.

[Lurker]

You don't and you're just an ass.

[Dorkington]

You don't and you're just an ass.

Quote of the year.

[FireChan]

That doesn't mean you're not an ass.

 

 

 

 

Quote of the year.

'What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.'

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Quote of the year.

 

See my signature.

[Taro T]

Based on what we've seen from all 3 guys so far this preseason and EJ's past 2 minute drill performances, assuming nothing significantly different happens in the next 2 weeks, I'm really hoping they keep all 3 w/ Taylor the starter, Cassel the backup, & Manuel #3.

 

Taylor seems to have the highest baseline (not floor) of the 3, and Cassel should be serviceable in-game if Taylor is injured. If they get to the 4th and need to mount a comeback, EJ seems to play best when he doesn't have time to overthink things and he has the strongest arm of the 3, so it seems he'd give a solid shot at the comeback.

 

I'd agree w/ the OP that in that final drive EJ looked like he'd've been good against the 1's.

[YattaOkasan]

Based on what we've seen from all 3 guys so far this preseason and EJ's past 2 minute drill performances, assuming nothing significantly different happens in the next 2 weeks, I'm really hoping they keep all 3 w/ Taylor the starter, Cassel the backup, & Manuel #3.

 

Taylor seems to have the highest baseline (not floor) of the 3, and Cassel should be serviceable in-game if Taylor is injured. If they get to the 4th and need to mount a comeback, EJ seems to play best when he doesn't have time to overthink things and he has the strongest arm of the 3, so it seems he'd give a solid shot at the comeback.

 

I'd agree w/ the OP that in that final drive EJ looked like he'd've been good against the 1's.

I actually am starting to visualize how a poor outing for TT or MC could be handed to EJ in the second half or 4th quarter. Assuming its close cause the defense has played well; let EJ have a drive or two to win the game if TT or MC play a terrible game. Some one said like a relief pitcher in another thread. First time I've really thought it could be doable. Probably still a bit too outlandish.

Edited August 21, 2015 by YattaOkasan

[Taro T]

I actually am starting to visualize how a poor outing for TT or MC could be handed to EJ in the second half or 4th quarter. Assuming its close cause the defense has played well; let EJ have a drive or two to win the game if TT or MC play a terrible game. Some one said like a relief pitcher in another thread. First time I've really thought it could be doable. Probably still a bit too outlandish.

Unless they've changed the rule recently regarding playing the #3 (as the 46th active player), they'd have to wait until the 4th to make the change. The 1st 2 are ineligible to return if he comes in any earlier.

[dave mcbride]

Want to open this up for discussion because I think it's an interesting one.

 

We all wanted EJ to be more accurate throwing the football on a more consistent basis. There also seems to be two schools of thought, and both have some merit.

 

1) He played against backups and scrubs so it's not a true test.

2) He played with backups and scrubs himself so it is a wash and is a true test.

 

Here is my theory:

 

1) A lot of times, the best answer is 1). Backups and scrubs do not possess the ability and speed that starters in the NFL do, and a lot of passes you can get away with in preseason you cannot get away with in the regular season. This allows guys like Kellen Moore and Colt McCoy and Matt Barkley and other rag arm QBs to look good if not excel in preseason because they are accurate and the ball lands in the hands of the WR and are completions and people think, wow, that guy is accurate and good. But those same passes are broken up or interceptions against good CBs who break on the ball quicker and are super fast.

 

2) That said, that is only true about rag arm passers and balls that are not thrown with regular season starter velocity and accuracy. The ball that EJ threw to Davis in the endzone that was called back by double penalty may have been against a third stringer but that was a great pass against a starter in the regular season, too. That was just a great ball regardless and would have been against anyone.

 

As was the TD pass. As was the dart to the one yard line that got first and goal. As was the drop to Palmer in the endzone. Those were all good balls against the top Cbs in the game.

 

So 3) both arguments are actually true, and each individual play has to be evaluated for what kind of pass it was and how the QB threw it. There isn't a blanket statement that covers whether a QB can throw or not against ones versus twos versus threes.

 

Finally, a small caveat though, the game is slightly slower overall in preseason, as is the intensity, as is the pressure. So it's a little easier to play well IMO, which enters the equation to some degree.

 

All that said, EJ threw 4-5 great passes at the end of the game that would have been great throws against ones or twos or threes or fours or Hall of Famers. They may not have all been completions, and they weren't. But they were major league throws and exactly what we wanted to see out of him.

By my reckoning, Manuel threw 5 passes in the red zone on the final possession. 4 of them could/should have resulted in scores, and 2 of them did. One was dropped in the front of the center part of the end zone, and any decent receiver would have held onto that. The other was a perfect strike to the far side of the endzone and the defender made a play (he also got called for PI, although I thought it was good D.) Nonetheless, it was the right read and a perfect throw. Sometimes the other guys make plays. As for the one that didn't go into the endzone, it was a 15 yard strike that set them up at the one, and it went to the guy who dropped the previous TD pass. All in all, he played well in that sequence and made good throws.

[Kelly the Dog]

By my reckoning, Manuel threw 5 passes in the red zone on the final possession. 4 of them could/should have resulted in scores, and 2 of them did. One was dropped in the front of the center part of the end zone, and any decent receiver would have held onto that. The other was a perfect strike to the far side of the endzone and the defender made a play (he also got called for PI, although I thought it was good D.) Nonetheless, it was the right read and a perfect throw. Sometimes the other guys make plays. As for the one that didn't go into the endzone, it was a 15 yard strike that set them up at the one, and it went to the guy who dropped the previous TD pass. All in all, he played well in that sequence and made good throws.

Yep. That's exactly how I saw all of those. And they all would have been good throws against ones.

[PromoTheRobot]

EJ is not going to start this season, period. That said, he's shown enough improvement under Roman to keep on the roster. There's nothing wrong with letting EJ develop on the bench a few seasons.

 

That's why TT is so strong. No one rushed his development. Let EJ grow.

Edited August 21, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Manuel, once he settled down last night, surprised me with his accuracy. In the past, he often missed wide open receivers on dunk passes. Of course he didn't play long enough to become erratic but he does appear improved.

[Coach Tuesday]

This isn't directly responsive to the question you've posed - but I'll post it here anyway. It occurred to me watching the game last night that EJ's accuracy issues may be tied to his slowness in processing the live action in front of him. By the time he figures out where to go with the ball, he has to hurry his mechanics to get it there - which often results in inaccurate throws. Just a thought.

[GaryPinC]

This isn't directly responsive to the question you've posed - but I'll post it here anyway. It occurred to me watching the game last night that EJ's accuracy issues may be tied to his slowness in processing the live action in front of him. By the time he figures out where to go with the ball, he has to hurry his mechanics to get it there - which often results in inaccurate throws. Just a thought.

You're right on with this and wrt the OP, nothing in preseason is a true test. But if he can't perform well in this format it doesn't portend well for the regular season. Playcalling, stunting, blitzes, switches etc are extremely simplified in preseason and so QB's like Trent Edwards look like heroes until the regular scheming commences. I will say this, EJ under pressure and getting his throws out was a better test than most 2nd and 3rd stringers normally provide.

[3rdand12]

EJ is not going to start this season, period. That said, he's shown enough improvement under Roman to keep on the roster. There's nothing wrong with letting EJ develop on the bench a few seasons.

 

That's why TT is so strong. No one rushed his development. Let EJ grow.

Man thats a good post!

[John from Riverside]

EJ is not going to start this season, period. That said, he's shown enough improvement under Roman to keep on the roster. There's nothing wrong with letting EJ develop on the bench a few seasons.

 

That's why TT is so strong. No one rushed his development. Let EJ grow.

How long is EJ under contract?