3rdnlng Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Please, let's make this a true discussion without the sideshows inherent when purely political positions are staked out. I want this discussion to address what is best for this country, not some preconceived ideas about immigrant "trash" or opening our borders for everyone because somehow it's the right thing to do. The following link will state that by 2050 this country will be 29% Hispanic. As a country, are we ok with this? I ask this question because the only reason this is happening is because of the illegal immigration on our southern border. Let's call it like it is: are we as a country willing to let an invasion happen and then accept their general refusal to assimilate and believe that large parts of this country is rightfully part of Mexico? (a little hyperbole) This country has always been strong because of its diversity and inclusion. It's always been on our terms. The latest happenings have been on other peoples terms though. Are we as a country willing to accept those terms being imposed on us or do we need to make a different stand? It'll be interesting hearing your comments you pinche bandejos's (sp? http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-cites-latinization-of-u.s.-warns-of-backlash-against-whites/article/2569442 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Besides this OP being completely racist - "The following link will state that by 2050 this country will be 29% Hispanic. "As a country, are we ok with this?" What? or better WTF? Are we Ok with Jews coming, or blacks?....maybe these people are just ...humans.... I wonder if the Natives were posting in the 1500's..."you know by 1700 88 percent of this country is going to be Euro?".... As well - Who is "we" - us white immigrants?....divinely guided to an already inhabited by the land becuase God wanted us to have it? Or are you Native American? Why don't you do some homework and start with some facts...like the fact that net Mexican immigration in the US has NOT CHANGED over the last 8 years,,,,that;s right as many have left as have come in.....so much for that porous border huh? Maybe these "latins" (is that what us "Merican's officially call them) - are citizens and are having kids....you do know - you have to be a citizen to vote right? Edited August 4, 2015 by baskin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 you have to be a citizen to vote right? Tell that to the dead people who vote in Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Please, let's make this a true discussion without the sideshows inherent when purely political positions are staked out. I want this discussion to address what is best for this country, not some preconceived ideas about immigrant "trash" or opening our borders for everyone because somehow it's the right thing to do. We should simplify our immigration process across the board (by that I include Europeans, Asians, Africans, etc), while stiffening the penalties for illegal entry. Anyone who wishes to become a citizen should have to take the citizenship test in English. I don't care at all what language they choose to speak at home, but a person needs to be able to communicate in English if they ever hope to earn a decent living here. Besides this OP being completely racist - "The following link will state that by 2050 this country will be 29% Hispanic. "As a country, are we ok with this?" What? or better WTF? Are we Ok with Jews coming, or blacks?....maybe these people are just ...humans.... You're making this about race, when the issue is as much about culture as anything else. To many immigrant latinos, speaking english is offensive to their culture. A large portion of them do not speak any english at all, and consider it an affront to their culture to speak anything other than latino spanish. You mention blacks and jews - did you never learn in school that many american slaves had to teach their children to read and write in secret? Despite the terrible treatment they suffered as slaves, they knew that the best chance their children had of having a better life lay in literacy. And as far as jews are concerned, how many have you encountered - or even heard of - that refused to assimilate into our society? How many times have you spent 45 minutes in a jewish deli trying to order because all they spoke at the counter was Yiddish? Edited August 4, 2015 by Azalin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 you have to be a citizen to vote right? Does this mean you are in favor of voter ID laws? No legal proof of residence at the polls, no vote? You're making this about race, when the issue is as much about culture as anything else. When all of other arguments fail, make it about race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Totally fine with a changing population demographics in general. That being said, illegal immigration is a problem for various reasons that both sides can identify. Not really sure what can be done about it.... putting up a big wall isn't really that realistic. The only way to truly stem the flow is to discourage hiring on our side, and improve the economy/safety of areas that are sending the most immigrants. There's a reason we don't have a Canadian immigrant problem. As far as illegals that are here, deporting them all is unrealistic, so I think if they are otherwise law abiding, finding a clear and reasonable path to citizenship would be ideal. But those that are involved in other crimes need to be jailed, since deporting them doesn't seem to do a whole lot of good. Unless we can figure out a better way to ensure they are jailed in their home countries. Illegal immigration is not a simple problem, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Yes, this is about culture and race and the Hispanics themselves make it so. There is a faction of Hispanics that openly talk about their numbers here and how long it will be before they "take over". We had an employee here, a good young guy for the most part, who spoke with me more than once on this. He listened to talk radio at times during the day, Latino stations, that had programming about this. They're extremely brash about what they feel are their "rights" as people coming into this country. We have a very large Hispanic population in the Chicago area and I don't see much assimilation and speaking only or mostly in Spanish is divisive. Make's it harder for people to understand one another. That and their culture has a significant component of people not following the rules. I hear this from teachers regarding parents and students and have had many experiences myself with people of this background that don't play by the rules. They don't want to pay taxes and complain, they trespass, they don't keep their cars registered or insured and the crime rate is high in many of their communities. This behavior and the fact that we citizens know that millions of people should not be here is creating racism because illegal immigration causes conflict and the majority of illegals happen to be of a different race. The sad part to me is that here we are in 2015 and the illegal population has become so large that there is no good or simple answer to the problem. We should have been tightly managing immigration and border security since Reagan. Instead we have a mess on our hands. Both political parties share the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 My thoughts and a few possible solutions Whether people like this or not, deporting home most of those that came here will never happen. And it's only a matter of time that those that are already living here will have some sort of a legal status. So the options are A) Be an intransigent force, resist. The outcome means more executive actions or a really liberal congress, senate and presidency come into power and the worst possible deal for conservatives will come about. Which means a very quick pathway to citizenship for the undocumented immigrants that are here. B) The Base of the GOP resists with the establishment finally caving and we get a so so deal. Where there will be some additional border security, some laws that will take away some incentives for the hiring process of illegals and an eventual pathway to citizenship down the road with hefty fines. C) The Base comes to the conclusion that this train has already left and becomes a part of the solution and engages in a more constructive manner. And you will get the best possible deal. My thoughts are that those that have come here illegally should not be given a pathway to citizenship but should be given a permanent legal status. I'm a believer of incentives, and giving a pathway to citizenship for those that came here illegally only gives incentives for more to do the same. I don't think its correct and it certainly isn't fair to all those people who were law abiding and went through the painful and timely steps to come into the country legally. I also believe that we need to punish those employers that knowingly hire illegal immigrants through fines. We need to build a wall. Even though I don't believe that is a practical solution, it's just so that it shows those that are opposed to the deal to shut them up by building up the damn wall so they never bring it up again. Need to have more discussions with Mexico about controlling immigration from their country to ours and somehow let them know that if we don't believe they are doing enough to address this issue that there will be consequences. Legalize marijuana. This will weaken the cartels and criminal activity coming from the south. Those are some of my thoughts and possible solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 lol, this thread might as well be merged with the cuckservative thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Totally fine with a changing population demographics in general. That being said, illegal immigration is a problem for various reasons that both sides can identify. Not really sure what can be done about it.... putting up a big wall isn't really that realistic. The only way to truly stem the flow is to discourage hiring on our side, and improve the economy/safety of areas that are sending the most immigrants. There's a reason we don't have a Canadian immigrant problem. As far as illegals that are here, deporting them all is unrealistic, so I think if they are otherwise law abiding, finding a clear and reasonable path to citizenship would be ideal. But those that are involved in other crimes need to be jailed, since deporting them doesn't seem to do a whole lot of good. Unless we can figure out a better way to ensure they are jailed in their home countries. Illegal immigration is not a simple problem, unfortunately. One of the problems is that people discuss "immigration" and "illegal immigration" as though they're the same thing. They're not. Once you admit they're not, a large chunk of the solution falls in to place: make immigration easier, but illegal immigration harder. That means: USCIS reform to make legal immigration less onerous, increased border security (not "a big-ass fence" - people always think in extremes, it's stupid), streamlined and stricter deportation proceedings. But it all has to go hand-in-hand - you can't implement half a reform - you can't make naturalization easier and keep the border porous. The biggest problem ends up being what it always is: what do you do about the illegal immigrants already here? That's not an easy problem, mostly because opinions are polarized to the extremes ("Full amnesty and citizenship rights" vs. "Deport them all.") As a practical matter, you have to have some sort of amnesty and means to normalize the status of already-resident illegal immigrants, but no one wants to be practical about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 One of the problems is that people discuss "immigration" and "illegal immigration" as though they're the same thing. They're not. Once you admit they're not, a large chunk of the solution falls in to place: make immigration easier, but illegal immigration harder. That means: USCIS reform to make legal immigration less onerous, increased border security (not "a big-ass fence" - people always think in extremes, it's stupid), streamlined and stricter deportation proceedings. But it all has to go hand-in-hand - you can't implement half a reform - you can't make naturalization easier and keep the border porous. The biggest problem ends up being what it always is: what do you do about the illegal immigrants already here? That's not an easy problem, mostly because opinions are polarized to the extremes ("Full amnesty and citizenship rights" vs. "Deport them all.") As a practical matter, you have to have some sort of amnesty and means to normalize the status of already-resident illegal immigrants, but no one wants to be practical about it. Agreed on all counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I also believe that we need to punish those employers that knowingly hire illegal immigrants through fines. This should be done very aggressively and, as far as I'm concerned, is one of the best pathways to stemming the flow of illegals from a politically conservative standpoint, along with making E-verify a federal mandate. By going after businesses, and I mean establishing a dedicated task force to locate and audit and fine companies who hire illegals, you remove the stigma you're going after poor Pedro who just arrived with 27 cousins in the back of a VW microbus, and show how you're going after "the businessman." The left LOVES to go after "the businessman" and they'd be hard pressed to suddenly argue against a plan like this. But it needs to be aggressive. We watched Obama go after one business in his first term to make it look like he was doing something. It needs to happen every single day. Spend three months going after these businesses and keep the stories above the fold, and watch what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Another thing that I rarely hear mentioned is that we're creating a subservient class of people when we encourage them to come in, not learn English, and perform work that 'Americans don't want to do' for a wage that most Americans would never accept. It's exploitation, plain & simple, and the proponents of amnesty either fail to see that, or just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Another thing that I rarely hear mentioned is that we're creating a subservient class of people when we encourage them to come in, not learn English, and perform work that 'Americans don't want to do' for a wage that most Americans would never accept. It's exploitation, plain & simple, and the proponents of amnesty either fail to see that, or just don't care. Wait. Are you suggesting that progressives are pushing for slave labor? Again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Wait. Are you suggesting that progressives are pushing for slave labor? Again? Of course not. We got rid of the Confederate flag, so slavery's no longer an issue. We've moved on to lion hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 lol, this thread might as well be merged with the cuckservative thread. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I share concerns about the erosion of our culture and think that people should assimilate. I'm also for legal immigration with quotas for people coming from any specific country. I don't know what the right number from Mexico might be...or China.....or Iraq.....or Germany. I do think the number should vary based on the results of how the people assimilate into our culture. I don't think they should forget their roots but they should speak english, work hard and contribute to our society. All types of hard work; manual, highly scientific and anything in between should be valued. I do know I'd set the initial quota for Canada at a fat ZERO until some sort of potential value is demonstrated. I realize that it is cruel and that the smarter Canadians are the ones trying to get out, but keep in mind that a "smarter Canadian" probably has an IQ about equal to that of a geranium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Both liberals and conservatives suggest fining businesses.... Wonder how lobbyists feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Both liberals and conservatives suggest fining businesses.... Wonder how lobbyists feel. You can tell by how those laws don't get passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 .....but keep in mind that a "smarter Canadian" probably has an IQ about equal to that of a geranium. Gatorman is Canadian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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