IDBillzFan Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) The immigration debate is one I don't understand. Anytime a politician wants to tighten up the border or throw out the criminals or whatever he is painted as a racist who hates brown people. However, I never see the other side favor open borders which would seem to be the alternative to keeping people out, let them all in. Why do Republicans hate amnesty so much? Reagan did it. Seems they would like it if their patron saint did it. The reason you don't get it is because the left does not care when an illegal alien murders an American. This was evident by the incredible silence from EVERYONE on the left after the murder in SFO. They don't care when an illegal alien rapes an American, robs an American, or runs over Americans or destroys their property by driving cars with no insurance. They just don't care. Unless, y'know, someone is trying to hold an illegal alien accountable for their actions...then we must be civil. Edited August 11, 2015 by LABillzFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 If there weren't any welfare programs and there wasn't an IRS that is easily exploited, we wouldn't have illegal immigration and we wouldn't be having a discussion about immigration. We can eliminate the IRS with a flat tax. While you can't or shouldn't eliminate welfare, you can lockdown the system a bit by requiring drug tests, proof of residency etc. They aren't coming here for jobs, they are coming here for the free money and you would be shocked how easily they can get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 If there weren't any welfare programs and there wasn't an IRS that is easily exploited, we wouldn't have illegal immigration and we wouldn't be having a discussion about immigration. We can eliminate the IRS with a flat tax. While you can't or shouldn't eliminate welfare, you can lockdown the system a bit by requiring drug tests, proof of residency etc. They aren't coming here for jobs, they are coming here for the free money and you would be shocked how easily they can get it. I think the drug testing is silly however a stricter needs testing should be put in place. There are many that are taking great advantage of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I think the drug testing is silly however a stricter needs testing should be put in place. There are many that are taking great advantage of the system. Nothing silly about it. Many people (some I have known) get cash assistance and a food card and they are trading the food cards for cash to buy drugs and alcohol. Hard to get a job when you're a drug addict and no one should be in favor of supporting these people unless you can somehow convince them to go to rehab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Nothing silly about it. Many people (some I have known) get cash assistance and a food card and they are trading the food cards for cash to buy drugs and alcohol. Hard to get a job when you're a drug addict and no one should be in favor of supporting these people unless you can somehow convince them to go to rehab. I've seen the same thing. In LA we literally have billboards for burger joints that promote "We take EBT. Get cash back!" There are times I look around at all the takers, how easy it is to get free money, food, phones with absolutely no accountability, and think...why not grab a piece? I mean, if no one is going to do anyting about it, why not join in? Then I remember I'm not a phucking dirtbag, and I could never vote for a California Democrat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Flat tax would mean less immigration? Ya, ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Flat tax would mean less immigration? Ya, ok Can't claim six kids on a forged tax return if there are no tax returns. Can't avoid paying taxes if there is a flat tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Can't claim six kids on a forged tax return if there are no tax returns. Can't avoid paying taxes if there is a flat tax. Why can't you avoid taxes in a flat tax? I know there are different versions, but how would the one you are talking about stop tax avoidance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Why can't you avoid taxes in a flat tax? I know there are different versions, but how would the one you are talking about stop tax avoidance? Federal sales tax. 8%. 100% pay in. Illegal immigrants, criminals, tourists, under the table workers. Everyone buys stuff so everyone pays in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Federal sales tax. 8%. 100% pay in. Illegal immigrants, criminals, tourists, under the table workers. Everyone buys stuff so everyone pays in. People won't cheat on a sales tax? Come on, ever hear of the black market? Where do you get a measly 8% from? To fund the national government?? No way. Total fantasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 People won't cheat on a sales tax? Come on, ever hear of the black market? Where do you get a measly 8% from? To fund the national government?? No way. Total fantasy How exactly would they cheat sales tax? Not hard when it comes to state sales tax I guess but not sure it would just simply be a matter of buying on the black market. Not everyone is looking to skirt the system like yourself. Also, our GDP last year was 17.8 trillion dollars. 8% of that is close to 1.5 trillion. The government collected 1.7 trillion in income tax last year. So if you want to ensure the same amount, we'll make it 10%. Now of course, you aren't considering the effects that lessening the tax burden on 53% of the country would have on said GDP. More money, more spending, more tax revenue. I would go further into corporate tax but I am holding a crying baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 How exactly would they cheat sales tax? Not hard when it comes to state sales tax I guess but not sure it would just simply be a matter of buying on the black market. Not everyone is looking to skirt the system like yourself. Also, our GDP last year was 17.8 trillion dollars. 8% of that is close to 1.5 trillion. The government collected 1.7 trillion in income tax last year. So if you want to ensure the same amount, we'll make it 10%. Now of course, you aren't considering the effects that lessening the tax burden on 53% of the country would have on said GDP. More money, more spending, more tax revenue. I would go further into corporate tax but I am holding a crying baby. Awww! Good luck with the baby! That is a tough job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Awww! Good luck with the baby! That is a tough job! Thanks. Anyways, so we are at what, 1.7 trillion plus right now? That's just from day to day business. Corporate tax. 20% across the board on gross earnings. The top 19 companies based in the US would contribute $686 billion alone. This is actually a reduction in corporate tax across the board, which will contribute to more jobs, more spending, more tax revenue. and then 15% on all Capital gains. 10-15-20 plan. Anyways, as you can see, it's totally feasible numbers wise. But to get back on track, I live in Florida currently and I can tell you right now, most Mexicans that are here illegally are here because the systems we have in place are easily exploited. Why wouldn't you live somewhere where you can work under the table, pay 0 income tax, claim you are broke (no documented job), collect thousands of dollars in government assistance and file a tax return with fraudulent information to collect EIC on kids you may or may not have? We don't need to close the border, we need to close the loopholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 We don't need to close the border, we need to close the loopholes. That's a sound principle for any part of the tax code, at any level. I'd love to see someone do a study of just how cost-effective it is to audit people for given violations. I'm sure there's portions of the tax code that cost more to enforce than they generate in tax revenue. Of course no one can do that study, because the IRS uses an accounting "system" that they claim can't be audited, it's so nonsensical. But good luck using that excuse with them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I think the drug testing is silly however a stricter needs testing should be put in place. There are many that are taking great advantage of the system. Eff that. Get a job and pay for your drugs like the rest of us. Smoking weed and watching judge Judy and price is right in your section 8 housing on my dime is total horseshit. Drug test the **** out of the welfare abusers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 That's a sound principle for any part of the tax code, at any level. I'd love to see someone do a study of just how cost-effective it is to audit people for given violations. I'm sure there's portions of the tax code that cost more to enforce than they generate in tax revenue. Of course no one can do that study, because the IRS uses an accounting "system" that they claim can't be audited, it's so nonsensical. But good luck using that excuse with them... I am of the belief that many of this country's problems begin with the IRS and the way we are taxed. Just like with race, sexuality, etc. it is another way to divide and conquer. All of the different tax brackets, exemptions, rebates etc. just creates a situation where everyone is worried about what the other guy is doing and who's getting what. And I won't even start on the big brother aspect of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 How exactly would they cheat sales tax? Not hard when it comes to state sales tax I guess but not sure it would just simply be a matter of buying on the black market. Not everyone is looking to skirt the system like yourself. Also, our GDP last year was 17.8 trillion dollars. 8% of that is close to 1.5 trillion. The government collected 1.7 trillion in income tax last year. So if you want to ensure the same amount, we'll make it 10%. Now of course, you aren't considering the effects that lessening the tax burden on 53% of the country would have on said GDP. More money, more spending, more tax revenue. I would go further into corporate tax but I am holding a crying baby. How would they cheat taxes? Couldn't they just underrepresented sales and keep the tax revenue? And with many states and localities already having sales taxes you'd have to add the federal load on top of that, so you might be hitting over 20% or higher. That's a lot in the sense it's going to increase the likelihood of black market selling, cheating by businesses and simple shop lifting. All those things would require more government involvement to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 This is an interesting article. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/16/crime-wave-elusive-data-shows-frightening-toll-illegal-immigrant-criminals/?intcmp=hpbt3 But this quote blew my mind. The explosive figures show illegal immigrants are three times as likely to be convicted of murder as members of the general population and account for far more crimes than their 3.5-percent share of the U.S. population would suggest. Critics say it is no accident that local, state and federal governments go to great lengths to keep the data under wraps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 This is an interesting article. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/16/crime-wave-elusive-data-shows-frightening-toll-illegal-immigrant-criminals/?intcmp=hpbt3 But this quote blew my mind. Of course they commit proportionally more crimes. Each one is breaking the law by being here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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