The Gross Misuse of Sammy Watkins--by the numbers

[Wayne Cubed]

So how do you discount that Watkins played injured for nearly the entire season? Can't have it both ways. Can't say on the one game to only count the targets for OBJ when he wasn't injured and then say that the Bills should have used a gimpy WR even more than they were able to. But for the fact that one sat out games while the other sat out plays, their play was BOTH affected by injury.

Umm Watkins actually started all 16 games and had targets in each game. You can't count games OBJ wasn't in and had literally no chance of being targeted. It's not like he was active and Eli just didn't throw him the ball because he was injured.

[Luxy312]

Umm Watkins actually started all 16 games and had targets in each game. You can't count games OBJ wasn't in and had literally no chance of being targeted. It's not like he was active and Eli just didn't throw him the ball because he was injured.

 

And you can't count plays where Watkins was on the bench either. That's the point. Whether he starts or not is irrelevant if he's on and off the field every other play. You still didn't answer the point being made. You easily say that you can't count games where OBJ wasn't being targeted. How about plays where Watkins wasn't being targeted because he was on the sideline. It's convenient ignorance to simply ignore the truth, and doesn't help your point at all.

[YoloinOhio]

LOL. Expect a sharp retort from Ryan. But even he'd concede Boyd was no Jay Cutler.

 

Seriously though, compared to most college QBs, Boyd was adequate. But he was no match for Watkins' abilities which require a good QB to really exploit. Even injured, Sammy had little problem getting "NFL open" last year. Unfortunately, our QBs were really the NFL equivalent of the college Tajh Boyd.

 

GO BILLS!!!

i always saw Boyd as "EJ Lite"... They had similar strengths and weaknesses but his weaknesses were worse than EJs and his strengths weren't as good. Jmo of course.

[Wayne Cubed]

And you can't count plays where Watkins was on the bench either. That's the point. Whether he starts or not is irrelevant if he's on and off the field every other play. You still didn't answer the point being made. You easily say that you can't count games where OBJ wasn't being targeted. How about plays where Watkins wasn't being targeted because he was on the sideline. It's convenient ignorance to simply ignore the truth, and doesn't help your point at all.

Sammy Watkins played 1027 snaps or 96.7% of the snaps for the season. You are grossly over exaggerating how many plays he took off.

[LB3]

Sammy Watkins played 1027 snaps or 96.7% of the snaps for the season. You are grossly over exaggerating how many plays he took off.

Next he'll argue that the pass that OBJ threw should still be counted in his target percentage. It's fun watching someone struggle to defend a bad take rather than just admitting they were mistaken.

[Wayne Cubed]

And you can't count plays where Watkins was on the bench either. That's the point. Whether he starts or not is irrelevant if he's on and off the field every other play. You still didn't answer the point being made. You easily say that you can't count games where OBJ wasn't being targeted. How about plays where Watkins wasn't being targeted because he was on the sideline. It's convenient ignorance to simply ignore the truth, and doesn't help your point at all.

He missed 35 plays or roughly 2 per game. Let's says for arguments sake those were all pass plays, he still only received 23.5% of the pass attempts.

 

Is that better?

[Jerry Jabber]

It's been painfully obvious that Hackett was in over his head and Marrone wanted an ultra-conservative offense, so I'm glad those two are gone.

[thebandit27]

 

Singular stat that by itself is virtually meaningless.

 

 

 

 

Cough it up. His data is wrong.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2014.htm

 

 

Huh?

 

The Giants for the season, all 16 games, attempted 607 passes.

 

Odell Beckham did not play all 16 games. He played 12.

 

 

 

So how do you discount that Watkins played injured for nearly the entire season? Can't have it both ways. Can't say on the one game to only count the targets for OBJ when he wasn't injured and then say that the Bills should have used a gimpy WR even more than they were able to. But for the fact that one sat out games while the other sat out plays, their play was BOTH affected by injury.

 

 

Umm Watkins actually started all 16 games and had targets in each game. You can't count games OBJ wasn't in and had literally no chance of being targeted. It's not like he was active and Eli just didn't throw him the ball because he was injured.

 

 

He missed 35 plays or roughly 2 per game. Let's says for arguments sake those were all pass plays, he still only received 23.5% of the pass attempts.

 

Is that better?

 

I'm not sure you can make it much clearer Wayne. I commend the effort.

[K-9]

It's been painfully obvious that Hackett was in over his head and Marrone wanted an ultra-conservative offense, so I'm glad those two are gone.

I can't make up my mind about Hackett. When I look at the All 22, I routinely see two receivers running open. It's uncanny. That's good design in the passing game, no matter how you slice it.

 

And then I see the mess of a complimentary running game and I scratch my head. I don't know how much of that to blame on OLmen that didn't have the athletic chops to do things they never should have been asked to do, but regardless, their run-action and play-action designs looked bad. I also don't know how much of that was Marrone's design and/or influence, either.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Deranged Rhino]

 

And you can't count plays where Watkins was on the bench either. That's the point. Whether he starts or not is irrelevant if he's on and off the field every other play. You still didn't answer the point being made. You easily say that you can't count games where OBJ wasn't being targeted. How about plays where Watkins wasn't being targeted because he was on the sideline. It's convenient ignorance to simply ignore the truth, and doesn't help your point at all.

 

[hondo in seattle]

Nothing could be farther from the truth regarding the actual scouting reports. The number one advantage Watkins had over all the other receivers is that he can run every route in the tree equally well. His bio is littered with reports of how fanatical he was trying to get even the smallest detail correct and the stories of staying after practice to put in extra work go back to high school.

 

I think the talking-head pundits and "scouts" pigeon-holed Watkins by suggesting all he did was run the go and the bubble. It was as simple as taking what the D gave them. In his freshman year, teams played him up and he burned them deep. When they adjusted and gave him a cushion, he killed them on bubbles. College is a rather non-complex game given the dearth of talent at the QB position, too. Most college QBs can't play a timing game, which is what most routes on the tree are predicated upon.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

I guess I should have been more specific. When I said "scouting reports," I meant the amateur scouting reports produced by media types who said Watkins excelled at only two routes: the go and the bubble screen. I have no idea what real club scouts had to say. Disappointingly, they don't usually share that information with me.

I can't make up my mind about Hackett. When I look at the All 22, I routinely see two receivers running open. It's uncanny. That's good design in the passing game, no matter how you slice it.

 

And then I see the mess of a complimentary running game and I scratch my head. I don't know how much of that to blame on OLmen that didn't have the athletic chops to do things they never should have been asked to do, but regardless, their run-action and play-action designs looked bad. I also don't know how much of that was Marrone's design and/or influence, either.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

There's a point here. Replay does show missed opportunities. Still, an OC should design an attack that actually gains yards and scores points. Not an offense that should of/could of gained yards and scored points.

 

We don't how much Marrone was involved in the offense. Was he the de facto OC like Sean Payton in NO? Not sure. But we do know Marrone was involved to some extent and the offense was unproductive. Since Marrone was also the HC, he deserves all the blame he gets.

 

How much blame Hackett deserves, I personally can't say.

[LeGOATski]

I'm not sure you can make it much clearer Wayne. I commend the effort.

That was an entertaining back-and-forth at least.

 

Luxy312 tried his/her very best to not admit he/she was wrong.

[K-9]

That was an entertaining back-and-forth at least.

 

Luxy312 tried his/her very best to not admit he/she was wrong.

I don't get the mentality. There's no shame in it. Ironically, it's a sign of a higher level of thinking. Insecurity is a B word, I guess.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

I guess I should have been more specific. When I said "scouting reports," I meant the amateur scouting reports produced by media types who said Watkins excelled at only two routes: the go and the bubble screen. I have no idea what real club scouts had to say. Disappointingly, they don't usually share that information with me.

 

There's a point here. Replay does show missed opportunities. Still, an OC should design an attack that actually gains yards and scores points. Not an offense that should of/could of gained yards and scored points.

 

We don't how much Marrone was involved in the offense. Was he the de facto OC like Sean Payton in NO? Not sure. But we do know Marrone was involved to some extent and the offense was unproductive. Since Marrone was also the HC, he deserves all the blame he gets.

 

How much blame Hackett deserves, I personally can't say.

 

I would bet anything that Hackett was running Marrone's offense and that Marrone was far more responsible for it than Hackett was. Freddy implied so in the off season, too.

[Lurker]

It’s the offseason…

Thanks. That's a lot of hard work to prove that water essentially went under the bridge....

[4merper4mer]

Sammy Watkins played 1027 snaps or 96.7% of the snaps for the season. You are grossly over exaggerating how many plays he took off.

But of those 3.3% of our plays did you even consider that Orton probably threw it out of bounds on those plays?

[LeGOATski]

But of those 3.3% of our plays did you even consider that Orton probably threw it out of bounds on those plays?

There's so much to consider or not consider that I'm considering not considering any of these considerations.

[4merper4mer]

There's so much to consider or not consider that I'm considering not considering any of these considerations.

 

 

I am surprised no one has brought up the times that Gray was seemingly targeted and even when he caught the ball. Those were clearly meant for Sammy, and he didn't catch them. Orton had hair confusion. Gray actually had more catches than targets in 2015 making him the greatest receiver of all time.

[mannc]

Just one more data point to underscore the fact that Marrone opting out of his contract was one of the greatest things ever to happen to this franchise.

[LeGOATski]

 

 

I am surprised no one has brought up the times that Gray was seemingly targeted and even when he caught the ball. Those were clearly meant for Sammy, and he didn't catch them. Orton had hair confusion. Gray actually had more catches than targets in 2015 making him the greatest receiver of all time.

Marrackett went so far to get a Sammy look-alike, which really messed with the defenses, but also our own QBs. We just need better QBs.