dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) You would trade the five on all of those teams you mentioned straight up for our five going into those seasons? I agree with Dez and Graham and how much better is an important factor for all of those. I just don't make that trade five for five wi any of those teams. I would strongly think about a few of them though. Like not a chance with the 49ers considering the WR. We beat them straight up in four out of five players. One caveat: I think that Anquan Boldin is one of the best players of this century and criminally underrated. So factor that in. Also, everyone expected Crabtree to be great in 2013. He got hurt and only played in 5 games (although he played well in the postseason). It's ridiculous that Boldin has been to only two pro bowls. He makes every team he plays for a LOT better and is tougher than anyone on the field. Edited April 23, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Definitely true and I agree but given the choice between Harvin or White, who would you take? Gonzales or Clay? At that point in their careers.I think the choice is between Woods and White. They are the established #2 outside full time receivers on their respective squads. I would take White over Woods. I do think, however, if you swapped the two players the last two seasons, Woods' stats would very much resemble White's and White's would very much resemble Woods'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 This is a good discussion topic One thing I would like to throw in here is overall team concept and how teams are usually not balanced....meaning one side of the ball for them is not as good as the other side at any given time. Our defense is GREAT.....they have a legit chance to be the number 1 overall defense in the league AND We have player talent on the offensive side of the ball to have this discussion.....those other teams do not. They cant. Its all on the O side of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 One caveat: I think that Anquan Boldin is one of the best players of this century and criminally underrated. So factor that in. It's ridiculous that he's been to only two pro bowls. He makes every team he plays for a LOT better and is tougher than anyone on the field. I love Boldin. But the one you're talking about, stats aside, remained with the Cardinals. He was very good on the Ravens and 49ers, still incredibly tough and clutch. He was Anquan Boldin on the Cards. Crabtree stinks. As did Manningham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Go on, I double dog dare you. It's all about the QB KtFaBD. I know you said other than QB but you can't have the conversation and ignore the most important skill position. Give this really, really good team a chance & do what it takes to get Rivers. All it will take is one team to jump up and grab Mariotta (or Winston if MM goes first). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) It's all about the QB KtFaBD. I know you said other than QB but you can't have the conversation and ignore the most important skill position. Give this really, really good team a chance & do what it takes to get Rivers. All it will take is one team to jump up and grab Mariotta (or Winston if MM goes first). I hope you don't have a sister. You of all people. A mod. I even asked politely. You most certainly can have the conversation and we were before you. This conversation has zero to do with QBs. There are 1000 threads for your conversation. Edited April 23, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) I love Boldin. But the one you're talking about, stats aside, remained with the Cardinals. He was very good on the Ravens and 49ers, still incredibly tough and clutch. He was Anquan Boldin on the Cards. Crabtree stinks. As did Manningham. See my edit above re Crabtree. He was very good in 2012. Boldin was the best player in the 2012 postseason among all teams. And it wasn't even close. In four games, he had 22 receptions for 380 yards (17.3 ypc) and 4 TDs against the toughest competition. Over a 16 game season, that translates into 88 receptions, 1520 yards, and 16 TDs. He was awesome for the Niners in 2013 too: 16 catches for 227 yards in 3 postseason games (83 catches for 1210 yards per season, extrapolated), 2 of which were against 2 of the top 3 defenses in the league. So I don't know what you're talking about! As you might be able to guess, I put a LOT of stock in postseason performance. Edited April 23, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I love Boldin. But the one you're talking about, stats aside, remained with the Cardinals. He was very good on the Ravens and 49ers, still incredibly tough and clutch. He was Anquan Boldin on the Cards. Crabtree stinks. As did Manningham. That Cardinals team had Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Steve Breaston, and Edgerrin James. No idea who played tight end though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I hope you don't have a sister. You of all people. A mod. I even asked politely. You most certainly can have the conversation and we were before you. This conversation has zero to do with QBs. There are 1000 threads for your conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 See my edit above re Crabtree. He was very good in 2012. Boldin was the best player in the 2012 postseason among all teams. And it wasn't even close. In four games, he had 22 receptions for 380 yards (17.3 ypc) and 4 TDs against the toughest competition. Over a 16 game season, that translates into 88 receptions, 1520 yards, and 16 TDs. He was awesome for the Niners in 2013 too: 16 catches for 227 yards in 3 postseason games (83 catches for 1210 yards per season, extrapolated), 2 of which were against 2 of the top 3 defenses in the league. So I don't know what you're talking about! As you might be able to guess, I put a LOT of stock in postseason performance. For the first 6-7 years on the Cards he was absolutely great. For the next five or so years he was very good. Without question he stepped up in the playoffs. But for the entire seasons he was a very good and not elite receiver. The last couple he put up pretty good (not great) numbers because they didn't have anyone else catching the ball. In the playoffs he was a beast. For sure. He's not nearly the same guy over the course of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) For the first 6-7 years on the Cards he was absolutely great. For the next five or so years he was very good. Without question he stepped up in the playoffs. But for the entire seasons he was a very good and not elite receiver. The last couple he put up pretty good (not great) numbers because they didn't have anyone else catching the ball. In the playoffs he was a beast. For sure. He's not nearly the same guy over the course of the season. I put more stock in the postseason than you, apparently! You've been a Bills fan for too long. FYI, in 2011 he had 10 catches for 174 yards and 1 TD in 2 postseason games (80 catches, 1392 yards, and 8 TDs extrapolated). And if he had been the target on Flacco's final pass instead of Lee Evans, you can be sure that the Ravens would have been playing in the Super Bowl. The postseason numbers in his golden years have been consistently strong. Edited April 23, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 You're right, when the authorities break the rules, you cannot get what you want. When posters don't respond to letter, the spirit, or the wishes of the thread and just post what they want to disrupt the thread, which has no business being there, you cannot get what you want. Or need. Even if you try sometimes. I put more stock in the postseason than you, apparently! You've been a Bills fan for too long.If you asked all of the GMs and HCs and OCs over the last 5 years, before the season started, to choose WRs for their team like in a fantasy draft but for genuine production and play and not stats, Boldin wouldn't have been chosen in the top 15 or 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 You're right, when the authorities break the rules, you cannot get what you want. When posters don't respond to letter, the spirit, or the wishes of the thread and just post what they want to disrupt the thread, which has no business being there, you cannot get what you want. Or need. Even if you try sometimes. If you asked all of the GMs and HCs and OCs over the last 5 years, before the season started, to choose WRs for their team like in a fantasy draft but for genuine production and play and not stats, Boldin wouldn't have been chosen in the top 15 or 20. See my edit above again. I think you're completely and utterly wrong about Boldin. And personnel guys have been completely wrong about Boldin going back to the year he was drafted. AZ traded him for a 3rd and 4th and watched him become a postseason legend for the Ravens. And the Ravens unloaded him for a 6th only to watch remain one of the toughest receivers in the league and a massive big-game performer. I mean, how can you argue with the postseason numbers??? The guy is a beast when it counts. Not least, coming off his 2012 season you'd have been a fool to argue that Woods or Harvin were more appealing players to have over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Interesting that some people mention the 2013 Falcons, who were definitely stacked at those positions...yet finished 4-12. Of course, they had the #27 ranked defense (offense was #14). I also don't recall if injuries or other factors played a role. I agree with John that one of the exciting things about this season is that we have five most excellent skill players on offense, plus a potential top-5 defense as well. I'm really hoping they can figure out the offensive line issues. I think I'm more worried about that than the QB spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 See my edit above again. I think you're completely and utterly wrong about Boldin. And personnel guys have been completely wrong about Boldin going back to the year he was drafted. AZ traded him for a 3rd and 4th and watched him become a postseason legend for the Ravens. And the Ravens unloaded him for a 6th only to watch remain one of the toughest receivers in the league and a massive big-game performer. I mean, how can you argue with the postseason numbers??? The guy is a beast when it counts. Not least, coming off his 2012 season you'd have been a fool to argue that Woods or Harvin were more appealing players to have over him. There is not a chance that GMs would say he is in the top 15 receivers in the league overall. Not a chance. And I love the guy. Watched him a ton. Used to live in Phx so I followed the Cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Interesting that some people mention the 2013 Falcons, who were definitely stacked at those positions...yet finished 4-12. Of course, they had the #27 ranked defense (offense was #14). I also don't recall if injuries or other factors played a role. I agree with John that one of the exciting things about this season is that we have five most excellent skill players on offense, plus a potential top-5 defense as well. I'm really hoping they can figure out the offensive line issues. I think I'm more worried about that than the QB spot. julio -and Jackson missed the majority of 2013 iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 This is a good discussion topic One thing I would like to throw in here is overall team concept and how teams are usually not balanced....meaning one side of the ball for them is not as good as the other side at any given time. Our defense is GREAT.....they have a legit chance to be the number 1 overall defense in the league AND We have player talent on the offensive side of the ball to have this discussion.....those other teams do not. They cant. Its all on the O side of the ball. Precisely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 tbh taking the QB situation out of it like we were told, as a DC all 5 scare me sitting here today. I think that's the point of the exercise, no one is saying anything definitive about the offense succeeding, just looking at the 5 players and what they present. At least that is how I read it. My point remains. Many groups of players who were just as promising failed to produce and are being viewed in hindsight now. You can't compare those known quantities to the possible potential another unproven group has - especially when the situation has to be qualified by ignoring the QB, OL, etc. It's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) There is not a chance that GMs would say he is in the top 15 receivers in the league overall. Not a chance. And I love the guy. Watched him a ton. Used to live in Phx so I followed the Cards. That's not an answer! You're just projecting what you think GMs would say. Moreover, GMs by training discount the present - they're concerned about the future. That's why the Ravens unwisely unloaded him for a 6th. Good playoff-level coaches concerned with the present, on the other hand, make sure they feed the ball to Boldin early and often in the biggest games. Edited April 23, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 That's not an answer! You're just projecting what you think GMs would say. Moreover, GMs by training discount the present - they're concerned about the future. That's why the Ravens unwisely unloaded him for a 6th. Good playoff-level coaches concerned with the present, on the other hand, make sure they feed the ball to Boldin early and often in the biggest games. No, I'm saying that GMs and HCs and OCs look at everything when it comes to veterans. Short term, mid term, long term. Most importantly being short term. And I'm talking watching games. And I'm talking everything concerned. Anquan Boldin has never even been a #1 WR on a team, even though he is great and even though he produces, and even though he is one of the toughest WRs ever. If you posed a question, "Going into the fourth quarter of a playoff game, who are your top ten WR you would want?", he may make the list. Somehow, he is one of the most underrated players in the last 20 years and you're overrating him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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