Bangarang Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 No. You have to teach that to a guy with bad mechanics. With the guy you mentioned you have to teach him to not panic and to process information so he doesn't panic How exactly is one better than the other? They both sound equally bad to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 How exactly is one better than the other? They both sound equally bad to me. It's self evident. One, the EJ type, can possibly be helped and could get better with experience, and the second really can't get better because it's fundamentally flawed and very hard if not near impossible to change. The second could also be a physical limitation, like with Fitz, that can never be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 oh snap @mikerodak: For the second time this offseason, Doug Whaley conspicuously avoids labeling EJ Manuel as the franchise QB: http://t.co/RnsjB3w4LV @mikerodak: Whaley, Feb. 19: "We don't have a marquee QB. Everybody knows that. Whaley, today: We dont have a proven franchise QB. Thats obvious." Not helping his trade value, eh rodak? I bet if Whaley added the word "yet" to the end of his sentence, Rodak would have found something sinister in the comment. As far as Joe B's article, ask Jay Cutler if accuracy, decision making, and smart eyes helped him get more wins and made him a better leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) WTF!!! With no first round pick this year, these bozos say they're going to draft a luncheon? i believe they have already started negotiating with Luncheon and his agent. Is today at noon. On the menu: Smoked Salmon. And there's a rumor that Luncheon's agent, a guy named Salmon, is about to get smoked. Edited April 21, 2015 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 i believe they have already started negotiating with Luncheon and his agent. And there's a rumor that Luncheon's agent, a guy named Salmon, is about to get smoked. I guy I know, Mike Salmon (who is the brother of the great baseball player, Tim Salmon), had a cup of coffee on the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I guy I know, Mike Salmon (who is the brother of the great baseball player, Tim Salmon), had a cup of coffee on the Bills. That report sounds fishy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Johnson Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Buscaglia tried to suggest that the day didn't portend well for EJ, but nothing remotely new related to EJ was said at this luncheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Buscaglia tried to suggest that the day didn't portend well for EJ, but nothing remotely new related to EJ was said at this luncheon. Correct. Joe B, unfortunately, also has an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 No. Fitz had none. He throws every pass like a baseball. He never takes a perfect drop, step, and behind the ear pass with good feet and follow through. He throws perfect passes at times. But his biggest problem is accuracy. And because he has crappy mechanics. A lot of which have to do with arm strength. He can't get the ball there far enough or fast enough without the baseball wind-up. No. You have to teach that to a guy with bad mechanics. With the guy you mentioned you have to teach him to not panic and to process information so he doesn't panic None?? You just sunk your own argument. Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 None?? You just sunk your own argument. Ridiculous. How? I said Fitz has terrible mechanics. I said he winds up and throws like a baseball because his arm isn't strong enough to throw hard or long passes the way QBs with good mechanics do. Therefore he always has bad mechanics. Therefore he never throws a pass with good mechanics, the same way that Rivers never does because he throws it sidearm. I also said he throws some perfect passes, but that has nothing to do with mechanics. Totally consistent. Never swayed from the argument. You just rarely read what you respond to. I could get a poster coach to try to help you with that but I doubt you will put the time in. It's possible that you never read or understand before you post, so even a great poster coach could not help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 @JaySkurski: Fisher on Garrett Grayson: "I thinks he's a good, solid QB, but it's going to take some time." Says he'll probably start career as a backup. @JaySkurski: Whaley calls drafting a QB "a definite possibility." @viccarucci: Whaley on not a whole lot separating the QBs in the draft: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." @JaySkurski: Kelvin Fisher, the #Bills' Dir. of College Scouting, says he looks at second- and third-round picks as starters in year one. @JaySkurski: Doug Whaley says the #Bills are in a position to select the best player available. @JaySkurski: Doug Whaley says the draft process is more exciting without a first-round draft pick. That's a perfect answer for this game of charades. @viccarucci: Whaley: Going to set up board with demarcation line that could allow #Bills to trade back into 1st rd. But unlikely w lack of ammunition. @mikerodak: Whaley says his personnel department watches/reads all of the pre-draft news conferences to try to pick up tidbits. @SalSports: Whaley says the $$ they gave Charles Clay, and the fact he will be a 3-down TE does not impact/effect if/when they may take a TE in draft @SalSports: Whaley also said Greg Roman likes to use multiple TEs and might even have 4 active on a game day. #Bills @JaySkurski: Fisher says he still feels like Cyrus Kouandjio can start in the NFL. @SalSports: GM Whaley says because the way NFL is played now, teams do have a tendency to reach and overdraft CBs (panic to cover all those WRs) #Bills @JoeBuscaglia: This press conference isn't over, but there have been 2 notable times where something was said & I thought to myself "That aint good for EJ" ---guessing this is one of those-- @JoeBuscaglia: #Bills Jim Monos: When QB mechanics are trying to be fixed in offseason, we always go back to the tape. Guys are who they are. @ChrisBrownBills: Whaley: Fine tuning of draft board starts Tues. - about top 250 accounted for Meetings w/coaches for input based on film review - #Bills @SalSports: Bills GM Doug Whaley on possibility of opening at NE on Thursday night: "As Rex has been telling the team, It's about us, not who we play." Thanks for putting all these together Yolo. I wouldn't have seen them all otherwise. Appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 How? I said Fitz has terrible mechanics. I said he winds up and throws like a baseball because his arm isn't strong enough to throw hard or long passes the way QBs with good mechanics do. Therefore he always has bad mechanics. Therefore he never throws a pass with good mechanics, the same way that Rivers never does because he throws it sidearm. I also said he throws some perfect passes, but that has nothing to do with mechanics. Totally consistent. Never swayed from the argument. You just rarely read what you respond to. I could get a poster coach to try to help you with that but I doubt you will put the time in. It's possible that you never read or understand before you post, so even a great poster coach could not help. You painted yourself into a corner with your unique claim that EJ has good mechanics. This required you to come up with a blanket statement that Fitz has the opposite. Neither statement is true of course. I'm pretty sure I read you right--always have, as have many others here. But maybe I could get coach Lee to help me with my post mechanics so that I could be more like you---a poster with good mechanics but who too often and all the time forgets his good mechanics and produces bad posts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 You painted yourself into a corner with your unique claim that EJ has good mechanics. This required you to come up with a blanket statement that Fitz has the opposite. Neither statement is true of course. I'm pretty sure I read you right--always have, as have many others here. But maybe I could get coach Lee to help me with my post mechanics so that I could be more like you---a poster with good mechanics but who too often and all the time forgets his good mechanics and produces bad posts.... Perhaps i missed it....but where does Kelly ever say that EJ has good mechanics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 You painted yourself into a corner with your unique claim that EJ has good mechanics. This required you to come up with a blanket statement that Fitz has the opposite. Neither statement is true of course. I'm pretty sure I read you right--always have, as have many others here. But maybe I could get coach Lee to help me with my post mechanics so that I could be more like you---a poster with good mechanics but who too often and all the time forgets his good mechanics and produces bad posts.... I have said the same thing a dozen times here. Never painted myself into a corner. Surely didn't have to come up with something about Fitz to have a blanket statement. There are dozens of throws from last year and from two years ago and hundreds of them from college where EJ shows very good mechanics. Sometimes he looks absolutely perfect, which is the frustrating part. It's obvious to anyone who watches football. What's also blatantly obvious is that they break down too often. He gets happy feet. He throws off his back foot. he gets nervous and gets rid of the ball too fast so he doesn't set his feet and/or he throws all arm. That is his problem. You can see it in what Hackett has said about him, and Marrone. What they are trying to get him to do is calm down, trust what he sees and use his good mechanics on 80% of his plays and not 20% or so. Then he will be good. He may never be able to do that. I've been 100% consistent with that viewpoint since they drafted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Here, for example, is a very accurate draft profile from Yahoo Sports which points out his strengths as well as weaknesses and what he does and doesn't do well. which is exactly what has happened to him so far. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/shutdown-50-e-j-manuel-florida-state-qb-162800036--nfl.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Better practices which teach QB not to panic but hard to have many due to NFLPA rules. I don't want to split hairs, but collectively bargained rules. The league decided to accept them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 It's self evident. One, the EJ type, can possibly be helped and could get better with experience, and the second really can't get better because it's fundamentally flawed and very hard if not near impossible to change. The second could also be a physical limitation, like with Fitz, that can never be changed. Yeah I'm not buying this. Sounds more like you trying to put a positive spin on the EJ situation. It's not a bad thing but I just don't agree. I think both scenarios you describe are just as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Here, for example, is a very accurate draft profile from Yahoo Sports which points out his strengths as well as weaknesses and what he does and doesn't do well. which is exactly what has happened to him so far. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/shutdown-50-e-j-manuel-florida-state-qb-162800036--nfl.html This is a good find Kelly If Roman can make it work with Colin then he should be able to make it work with EJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Yeah I'm not buying this. Sounds more like you trying to put a positive spin on the EJ situation. It's not a bad thing but I just don't agree. I think both scenarios you describe are just as bad. There are numerous examples over the years of quarterbacks improving their accuracy and ability over time after they get experience if they have basic good mechanics. Brady is the best example. There are no examples to my knowledge of quarterbacks with crappy mechanics becoming great, or even improving them much. That is why they stay a few levels below the good QBs. How you or anyone can say those two things are just as bad baffles me. By the way, I'm not at all predicting EJ will become good. Earlier in this very thread I said it's less than 50-50. But it's possible. Because he basically has good mechanics and if the game slows down for him, he MAY NOT fukk up so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 There are numerous examples over the years of quarterbacks improving their accuracy and ability over time after they get experience if they have basic good mechanics. Brady is the best example. There are no examples to my knowledge of quarterbacks with crappy mechanics becoming great, or even improving them much. That is why they stay a few levels below the good QBs. How you or anyone can say those two things are just as bad baffles me. By the way, I'm not at all predicting EJ will become good. Earlier in this very thread I said it's less than 50-50. But it's possible. Because he basically has good mechanics and if the game slows down for him, he MAY NOT fukk up so much. Never mind.....Kelly did say that EJ has good mechanics WEO.......im honest when I know im wrong I will say this....i dont consider inconsistant mechanics to be GOOD mechanics. I guess its all a matter of perception......I have always said that what I feel EJ needs in consistancy in what he does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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