Lurker Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 But Pears is 6'8" and played OG last year. Oh, wait a minute.......never mind. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 To judge Pears struggles on his height is irrational. To compare Henderson to Pears because of their similarity in height is unfair. Sure, leverage is an issue. But to assume a taller player can't play guard is just wrong. If you have a rational reason they won't look at him at guard, I'm all ears. For what it's worth, Mike Iupati is 6'5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 with 3rdand12, I can never tell... That's what can make it so fun. Look at the track record.... fool or wise and funny? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) To judge Pears struggles on his height is irrational. To compare Henderson to Pears because of their similarity in height is unfair. Sure, leverage is an issue. But to assume a taller player can't play guard is just wrong. If you have a rational reason they won't look at him at guard, I'm all ears. For what it's worth, Mike Iupati is 6'5" I went back ten years and the tallest All Pro OG was 6'5". Probably could go back further, but then you start to get into different eras. The tallest two OGs that made the Pro Bowl (which is just a popularity contest) were 6'6". A tall guy can do it (I gave the example of Alex Boone), but a shorter guy in the 6'4" range is going to have an easier time inside and will--all things being equal--probably do a better job. Of course with the Bills line, this is probably moot as it wouldn't take much to upgrade last year's OG play... Edited March 30, 2015 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I went back ten years and the tallest All Pro OG was 6'5". Probably could go back further, but then you start to get into different eras. A tall guy can do it (I gave the example of Alex Boone), but a shorter guy in the 6'4" range is going to have an easier time inside and will--all things being equal--probably do a better job. Of course with the Bills line, this is probably moot as it wouldn't take much to upgrade last year's OG play... Lol. True story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Gailey does a great job of using the whole field, finding gaps in the defense and taking what the defense gives him. Marrone/Hackett tried to move mountains with a Volvo. Roman will impose his will, line up, and dare the defense to stop him. I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple TEs, unbalanced lines, down hill power smoked with misdirection. The biggest question is do we have a QB who can play in this system. This years training camp is going to be fascinating (and possibly frustrating) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't underestimate the power of good coaching.praise the lord!!The fact they aren't pursuing any more FA guard help makes me think they believe they have the answer on the roster or they're taking him at 50. I've always believed if you can take a tackle, you can upgrade your line at two positions. Glenn was a second rounder, I wonder if someone of his talent level will be available.It makes me think we spent our wad. Kujo was also a 2nd rounder. Not to say he's a definite bust, but he was useless as a rookie. Glenn was the polar opposite. Draft, plug and play. Hope we can add a guard to pair with incognito. Really hope neither Urbik nor williams are starters. Edited March 30, 2015 by NewEra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Maybe this is the same as the annoyance you feel. I believe that a big, hulking behemoth who can play as an effective run blocking, pulling guard is rare. The guy basically has to train to run bent at the knees because otherwise his center of gravity is against him and it's too easy for defenders to get their hands under his pads and pop him on his ass like a drunk at an oyster bar popping them out of their shells. Kujo is a big guy - 6'7" I think? And relatively slow. 5.6 sec 40. He was strictly LT in college. Just like Pears, who is 6'8", relatively slow, and also not that heavy (316), I don't think he's the stuff that capable guards are made of. I could of course, be wrong. Its a pretty good reasoning to me ! Marrone said get the five best on the field , that still leaves a bad taste with me. If player , like Glenn is very very good at his position? dont move him. Henderson has been playing tackle all through college. Work on him some more at the NFL level. I think he showed promise. I went back ten years and the tallest All Pro OG was 6'5". Probably could go back further, but then you start to get into different eras. The tallest two OGs that made the Pro Bowl (which is just a popularity contest) were 6'6". A tall guy can do it (I gave the example of Alex Boone), but a shorter guy in the 6'4" range is going to have an easier time inside and will--all things being equal--probably do a better job. Of course with the Bills line, this is probably moot as it wouldn't take much to upgrade last year's OG play... Nice work Lurker ! The bolded part is what i will hang my hat on. If we go into the season as is, they surely will look better than last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) The biggest question is do we have a QB who can play in this system. This years training camp is going to be fascinating (and possibly frustrating) Cassel can play in this system. It's what he is - a QB who can play in this system. EJ can either play in this system or perhaps the NFL is not for him - it made competent NFL QB of Alex Smith and Kaepernick. To judge Pears struggles on his height is irrational. To compare Henderson to Pears because of their similarity in height is unfair. Sure, leverage is an issue. But to assume a taller player can't play guard is just wrong. If you have a rational reason they won't look at him at guard, I'm all ears. For what it's worth, Mike Iupati is 6'5" AB, It's not just on his height, it's the combination of height and demonstrated foot speed and agility, ability to stay bent at the knees and explode upward from that position. Pears just doesn't have it and Kujo doesn't seem to. Maybe his knees were still hurting and he'll have benefitted by a year of rest. Henderson is a superior natural athlete - he played AAU basketball and competed in distance running, shot put and discus in highschool. Shot put in the most common technique requires an athlete to get low and explode upwards effectively. But as it stands right now, we need a tackle. Unless we manage to get our hands on Cordy Glenn 2.0 in the 2nd round (a plug and play tackle), we really need to develop Henderson as our best shot at RT. And yeah, other things being equal, those extra 3" between 6'5" and 6'8" do matter to a guy's ability to stay low and keep DLmen from getting under his pads and popping him on his a**. If you have a 6'8" guy with fantastic flexibility and explosion, as well as agility, he could certainly make it work. Edited March 30, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 My concern with power man with Roman is that we need a mobile guard to pull. Hope we can get around that with added blocking from fullback and tight ends. Did Gailey's scheme work because of spreading them out or was Levitre that important to the line? He hasn't done much in Tennessee but wish he stayed. How well it "worked" is certainly debatable when you are under .500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Cassel can play in this system. It's what he is - a QB who can play in this system. EJ can either play in this system or perhaps the NFL is not for him - it made competent NFL QB of Alex Smith and Kaepernick. AB, It's not just on his height, it's the combination of height and demonstrated foot speed and agility, ability to stay bent at the knees and explode upward from that position. Pears just doesn't have it and Kujo doesn't seem to. Maybe his knees were still hurting and he'll have benefitted by a year of rest. Henderson is a superior natural athlete - he played AAU basketball and competed in distance running, shot put and discus in highschool. Shot put in the most common technique requires an athlete to get low and explode upwards effectively. But as it stands right now, we need a tackle. Unless we manage to get our hands on Cordy Glenn 2.0 in the 2nd round (a plug and play tackle), we really need to develop Henderson as our best shot at RT. And yeah, other things being equal, those extra 3" between 6'5" and 6'8" do matter to a guy's ability to stay low and keep DLmen from getting under his pads and popping him on his a**. If you have a 6'8" guy with fantastic flexibility and explosion, as well as agility, he could certainly make it work. Jake Fisher.....Oregon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 @mikerodak: Chatted with Aaron Kromer today -- he said he's open to playing Kouandjio at tackle or guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 This is exactly why guys like Richardson and Kouandjio have a better chance at succeeding under this regime, compared to the last regime. It is also why I don't think LG Evan Mathis and his 290 pound frame is a good fit for this scheme...Roman's LG in San Francisco (Iupati) was 350 lbs. Isn't Incognito a better run-blocker, and Williams a better pass-blocker...which would make sense to have Incognito at RG, and Williams at LG? So, my question is still why does Whaley draft these huge O linemen that can't move to play the Zone scheme that requires agility? I'm just asking, as I don't understand how the drafting can be SO bad on the O line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 This is exactly why guys like Richardson and Kouandjio have a better chance at succeeding under this regime, compared to the last regime. It is also why I don't think LG Evan Mathis and his 290 pound frame is a good fit for this scheme...Roman's LG in San Francisco (Iupati) was 350 lbs. Isn't Incognito a better run-blocker, and Williams a better pass-blocker...which would make sense to have Incognito at RG, and Williams at LG? From what I saw looking at Williams Rams game tape and the little I saw with him on Bills he seemed like an above average run blocker and a below average pass blocker. I can't really remember how Incognito slotted out run v pass praise the lord!! It makes me think we spent our wad. Kujo was also a 2nd rounder. Not to say he's a definite bust, but he was useless as a rookie. Glenn was the polar opposite. Draft, plug and play. Hope we can add a guard to pair with incognito. Really hope neither Urbik nor williams are starters. I think ideally someone steps up at LG and we cut Chris Williams to save some money and keep Urbik as the swing guard/ backup center. Urbik being a passable backup center should give him more value over Williams So, my question is still why does Whaley draft these huge O linemen that can't move to play the Zone scheme that requires agility? I'm just asking, as I don't understand how the drafting can be SO bad on the O line. That still puzzles me... I wonder how much input Marrone had in drafting the O line last year. I'm thinking he didn't have much personnel input ( ie.. extending Kraig Urbik and then Marrone benches him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luap22 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 If high school lineman can learn to pull and trap in line assignments, why can't highly paid NFL lineman men perform the same task? Don't recall any pulling lineman in Bills games. It mostly appeared to be straight ahead blocking, holes jammed and plugged, no where for our backs to go. Let's hope our new coaching staff has a plan. Diversify line blocking, move the blocking assignments around, vary the attacks. Otherwise our off season trades will be meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 It honestly has nothing to do with the height it has to do with - Understanding how to get low and get leverage - Have the...and exuse the term...the ASS to be be able to drive block and get that leverage while still being mobile enough to execute the other blocks needed The problem with Pears is he didnt have the ass......literally So, my question is still why does Whaley draft these huge O linemen that can't move to play the Zone scheme that requires agility? I'm just asking, as I don't understand how the drafting can be SO bad on the O line. What this could be is one of those examples of Marrone and Whaley not communicating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 @mikerodak: Chatted with Aaron Kromer today -- he said he's open to playing Kouandjio at tackle or guard. Interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I'm surprised more people are not talking about the impact of having Felton and Clay on the team. These guys can block and that will surely make the OL look better. These guys can be used like an additional OLman and also as a lead blocker. Put them in motion and you can throw a number of different wrinkles in there. I am getting the feeling that the OL no longer is being viewed as a major weakness. Incognito is an upgrade and Williams has had a full year to rehab. Then of the 3 rookies from last year, the coaching staff may very well think one of them will improve well enough to start. Looking at the roster as it stands right now, we have 11 OLmen, not counting our longsnapper or FB/HB/TE. That is a lot of big men now. Add in a different line coach and OC and things could get real interesting real fast. The overall consensus seems to be that the OL is the undisputed biggest weakness for this team. Just saying, with the weapons we have added during the off season, that may not be how the new coaches are viewing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Interesting I thought that was interesting as well....... Much like when draft people were talking about converted Williams from corner to safety...I heard those same whispers about Kujo when he was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb62 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I wouldn't underestimate the power of good coaching. Your Bo quote reminds me of a redskin who said he would run over his mom to win the SB, a raider replied I'd run over his mom too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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