plenzmd1 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Okay , two things here. 1) can we all agree to not respond to any HoF Watkins posts? He is having to much fun, we need to stop feeding it 2) I hate John Clayton, but boy does he hate the Pats or Billy boy. Enemy of of my enemy LOL. i just finished lose ting to his segment on GR, and he destroys the Pats. Also to funny at one point he forgets what staion he is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If the NFL is setting up to go easy on the Pats and use some technicality, they will have completed their jumping of the shark. WWE meets the Arena League. Product was optimal in the 90s and early 2000s under Tagliabue. Too much tinkering and unfavorable rule changes for defenses. Too much tinkering with schedules to get larger market teams on TV. Too much everything. The fans are completely taken to the cleaners at every turn. Greed has always been a factor BUT when it eclipses the integrity of the sport…goodbye. It's pretty hard to !@#$ up the national pastime, well done Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Did anyone watch Adam Schefter at ESPN? He is now saying "The NFL is having a tough time coming up with actual evidence that this knowingly went on." and "It's up to the league to prove that it it did." This is the NFL, not a legitimate court of law as part of a real legal system. Rule 2 Section 1: THE BALL The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces. OK: there is no mens rea or mental element to the rule stated here. For all we know, the mental element of the crime could be assumed to be one of recklessness...simply meaning if it can be shown that the Patriots were reckless and did not exercise due diligence in ensuring the balls were inflated to the proper pressure, the mental element of the "crime" has been satisfied. You then demonstrate that the balls were in fact below proper PSI levels, and boom! Guilty. Or you could assume no mental element here at all. Show the ball is under pressure and the crime has been committed. So where does Schefter get off talking about how the NFL has to go running around proving what as in the mind of Bill, Tom, or anyone else at the Patriots? Where does that come from? How would anyone know that? It's not enumerated in the rule book. This stuff is beyond Mickey Mouse. The elements of the "crime" will be whatever the NFL deems them to be. For that reason, this all comes down to politics and whatever will exists at the NFL to nail Brady, Belicheat, or the Patriots to a cross. And for that reason, nothing will happen. It's the equivalent of finding a goose that lays golden eggs and deciding to cook it for dinner. They will continue to bite the hand that feeds them until they are no longer relevant (Brady, Belicheat, Pats that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I would think that the actual game balls are the responsibility of the officials, so if there is deflation going on, and there is no PROOF that it was someone associated with the Pats, it's got to fall on the officials. There are cameras everywhere, wouldn't there be some security footage of the area where the ball is kept? OR some on the field footage of someone tampering, or going into the room before the game. I mean, people here having been assuming that this is a common practice of the Pats, right? Among all the footage of so many games, there would likely be some kind of suspicious activity on tape. Let me know when they find it, until then, it's all speculation. Okay , two things here.1) can we all agree to not respond to any HoF Watkins posts? He is having to much fun, we need to stop feeding it2) I hate John Clayton, but boy does he hate the Pats or Billy boy. Enemy of of my enemy LOL. i just finished lose ting to his segment on GR, and he destroys the Pats. Also to funny at one point he forgets what staion he is on. Right, no dissent allowed. Edited January 23, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I would think that the actual game balls are the responsibility of the officials, so if there is deflation going on, and there is no PROOF that it was someone associated with the Pats, it's got to fall on the officials. There are cameras everywhere, wouldn't there be some security footage of the area where the ball is kept? OR some on the field footage of someone tampering, or going into the room before the game. I mean, people here having been assuming that this is a common practice of the Pats, right? Among all the footage, there would likely be some kind of suspicious activity. Let me know when they find it, until then, it's all speculation. Goodell already burned all the tapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If the NFL is setting up to go easy on the Pats and use some technicality, they will have completed their jumping of the shark. WWE meets the Arena League. Product was optimal in the 90s and early 2000s under Tagliabue. Too much tinkering and unfavorable rule changes for defenses. Too much tinkering with schedules to get larger market teams on TV. Too much everything. The fans are completely taken to the cleaners at every turn. Greed has always been a factor BUT when it eclipses the integrity of the sportgoodbye. It's pretty hard to !@#$ up the national pastime, well done Roger. Youre still all in with the "the nfl decided to do a surprise test after half time before the game even started in order to hide what was going on" angle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/curran-time-nfl-stop-deflategate-madness?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo Hmm.. D'Quell Jackson - ''The deal about me saying that I noticed anything about it, that's totally false" http://sports.yahoo.com/news/colts-jackson-says-noticed-nothing-wrong-football-215645753--nfl.html Edited January 23, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filthymcnasty08 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Youre still all in with the "the nfl decided to do a surprise test after half time before the game even started in order to hide what was going on" angle? Where exactly did I say that? The post starts with "If" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Goodell already burned all the tapes. Not a valid response. How about something reasonable, instead of a diversion? Edited January 23, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalftimeAdjustment Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I think NE is going to claim that someone else tampered with the balls in order to hurt them... After all one got intercepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/curran-time-nfl-stop-deflategate-madness?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo Hmm.. D'Quell Jackson - ''The deal about me saying that I noticed anything about it, that's totally false" http://sports.yahoo.com/news/colts-jackson-says-noticed-nothing-wrong-football-215645753--nfl.html I didnt read the article but he allegedly gave it to the equipment guy and that is who noticed it. People reported that it was him but he just gave it away on the sidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Anyone who expects the NFL to hand down possible suspensions BEFORE the Super Bowl has to lower their expectations.That's why it was important for Brady to not admit any role in the incident today. If he had admitted any role today, public backlash would have put the NFL in no other position than to suspend Brady for the game. His denial buys time for the league to continue their "investigation" without coming to any conclusions on who's responsible until after the game. Brady's conflicting answers and prior statements, along w his penchant for perfection and attention to detail, it's pretty unlikely that he did not know about the deflated balls, especially if other teams in the league noticed this and they don't touch the ball on every play. He just wants to play in the Super Bowl so badly that he's still in denial mode. If a guy is willing to cheat with the balls to get to the Super Bowl, why would he all of the sudden come clean a few days later without 100% evidence proving he's guilty, and jeopardize his chance of getting to play in the Super Bowl, In addition, it's in the NFL and TV Commercials interests that he plays, bc otherwise the Pats will have a rookie QB starting his first game ever on the biggest stage. Viewership would most likely suffer, which is not in their interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Not a valid response. How about something reasonable, instead of a diversion? Sure, a tire pressure gauge with a needle on it to inflate/deflate a ball can be carried by any of probably over 100 of the people on the sideline. It's smaller than the sharpie that TO used. It takes less than a second to drop a footballs pressure from 12.5 to 10. Camera's follow the high profile people. Brady, Belicheat, Wilfork, etc. It could have been the 3rd string safety doing it for all you know. 53 players are on the sideline not including about a dozen coaches. Then water boys, towel boys, ball boys..... I'm sure the camera man is very intent on following the water boy. Edited January 23, 2015 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Is everyone still passing judgement off those early media reports culled from "sources" which, to the best of my knowledge, have never been substantiated by the NFL? Edited January 23, 2015 by Pneumonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Sure, a tire pressure gauge with a needle on it to inflate/deflate a ball can be carried by any of probably over 100 of the people on the sideline. It's smaller than the sharpie that TO used. It takes less than a second to drop a footballs pressure from 12.5 to 10. Camera's follow the high profile people. Brady, Belicheat, Wilfork, etc. It could have been the 3rd string safety doing it for all you know. 53 players are on the sideline not including about a dozen coaches. Then water boys, towel boys, ball boys..... I'm sure the camera man is very intent on following the water boy. And since there is no rule that says that they have to remain in plain sight after inspected by the officials I would imagine it would be quite easy to slip into a storage closet, team room or anything and do the deed without anyone being the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Did anyone watch Adam Schefter at ESPN? He is now saying "The NFL is having a tough time coming up with actual evidence that this knowingly went on." and "It's up to the league to prove that it it did." This is the NFL, not a legitimate court of law as part of a real legal system. Rule 2 Section 1: THE BALL The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces. OK: there is no mens rea or mental element to the rule stated here. For all we know, the mental element of the crime could be assumed to be one of recklessness...simply meaning if it can be shown that the Patriots were reckless and did not exercise due diligence in ensuring the balls were inflated to the proper pressure, the mental element of the "crime" has been satisfied. You then demonstrate that the balls were in fact below proper PSI levels, and boom! Guilty. Or you could assume no mental element here at all. Show the ball is under pressure and the crime has been committed. So where does Schefter get off talking about how the NFL has to go running around proving what as in the mind of Bill, Tom, or anyone else at the Patriots? Where does that come from? How would anyone know that? It's not enumerated in the rule book. This stuff is beyond Mickey Mouse. The elements of the "crime" will be whatever the NFL deems them to be. For that reason, this all comes down to politics and whatever will exists at the NFL to nail Brady, Belicheat, or the Patriots to a cross. That last part is why they'll do jack ****--Goodell owes his position to Kraft and kisses his ring every chance he can. Look no further than Spygate and the burning of the tapes followed by his lies about how widespread it was. It sounds like it's uncontrovertible that the balls had the correct psi 2 hours before kickoff, but in the two hours till game time suddenly lost 2 psi or more each (which cannot be explained by weather or other factors--plus the fact that the Colts' balls retained their regulation psi at that time). That can only happen one way, particularly since the balls were in the Pats*' possession for that 2 hour period. (For the benefit of numb nuts Watkins here (who has to be a paid troll) with his argument about "there must be a camera showing the cheating--ever been in the stadium at 11 on game day? No, know why? Because the gates open at 11:30, so no cameras, no nothing for at least 30 minutes--plenty of time to doctor the balls.) This standard of proof crap is clearly BS designed to let them give minimal to no punishment for what wasobviously an intentional act of cheating. What's also funny is listening to (like Rich Gannon on NFL Radio) and reading (like Gil Brandt's (still a League consultant) ridiculous interview in the NYT yesterday) spin trying to downplay this. The League is once again doing a full court press to sweep this under the rug. Unfortunately, where the NFL is concerned there are no objective media outlets to out their BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Sure, a tire pressure gauge with a needle on it to inflate/deflate a ball can be carried by any of probably over 100 of the people on the sideline. It's smaller than the sharpie that TO used. It takes less than a second to drop a footballs pressure from 12.5 to 10. Camera's follow the high profile people. Brady, Belicheat, Wilfork, etc. It could have been the 3rd string safety doing it for all you know. 53 players are on the sideline not including about a dozen coaches. Then water boys, towel boys, ball boys..... I'm sure the camera man is very intent on following the water boy. I'm talking security cameras in the hallways, not necessarily network cameras. Pre-game warmups, fans with phones, all kinds of media are around all the time. If someone can get away with this mid-game on the sideline, all 12 balls, multiple games, across multiple seasons (according to some here). There would be some kind of suspicious footage, somewhere. THey could easily say they were set up. I wouldn't put it past a Harbaugh And to ACCURATELY deflate 12 balls to the same new pressure, mid-game, on the sideline, surreptitiously with a gauge, it takes less than a second each? Edited January 23, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 long time reader of this thread first post. maybe second. i have little hope for the NFL as an entity to resolve this in an above board manner. if the ball boy was responsible than Brady must have known and is guilty. If Brady knew , and he did, Beelzubub did too. but even if he did not. which he did. He is responsible for his players and what they do. Then Kraft is responsible for his team as a whole in the end. i mean thats how business works right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Check the balls before the game, check them at the half, see if they're meaningfully different (i.e. vary more than temperature would allow.) But then you must also check them AFTER the game. Why should it be assumed that a check at halftime assures that the balls used in the 3rd and 4th quarters are inflated within acceptable parameters? It takes maybe 5 seconds a ball using an easily concealable pin to re-deflate a ball that has been pumped up at halftime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 long time reader of this thread first post. maybe second. i have little hope for the NFL as an entity to resolve this in an above board manner. if the ball boy was responsible than Brady must have known and is guilty. If Brady knew , and he did, Beelzubub did too. but even if he did not. which he did. He is responsible for his players and what they do. Then Kraft is responsible for his team as a whole in the end. i mean thats how business works right? IS a coach responsible for a player using PED's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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