John from Riverside Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I have been WIDELY speculating that Kyle Orton was playing not to get hurt and collecting a paycheck. This confirms it for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I have been WIDELY speculating that Kyle Orton was playing not to get hurt and collecting a paycheck. This confirms it for me He'll hold out until training camp is over and then sign somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 He'll hold out for 3-4 weeks and sign . . . HERE. Obvious leverage play. Especially since he doesnt yet know which coach/gm/OC he will be signing up with. He announced his "intention" to retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Well, now management has no choice but to go find a starting QB ..... from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I don't get the Orton hate on here. He was exactly as advertised and what they hoped that he would be. He was an average veteran QB that gave a team with playoff talent a shot at the playoffs. Had he played all year they may have still missed the playoffs but would have won the Houston game. His stats extrapolated 64.2% completion, 3,772 yards, 22.5 TDs & 12.5 INTs. That would have been on the high end of the range that we all would have expected from Orton or EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I don't get the Orton hate on here. He was exactly as advertised and what they hoped that he would be. He was an average veteran QB that gave a team with playoff talent a shot at the playoffs. Had he played all year they may have still missed the playoffs but would have won the Houston game. His stats extrapolated 64.2% completion, 3,772 yards, 22.5 TDs & 12.5 INTs. That would have been on the high end of the range that we all would have expected from Orton or EJ. I more or less agree with you Kirby. But this is a hard sell to the EJ supporters, some of whom think we would have done better overall had EJ remained the starter all season and presumably developed accordingly. The fact remains Orton is not good enough, though, and we need to improve on him if possible. Look at the top seeded teams in the playoffs Almost all have top 10 QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I don't get the Orton hate on here. He was exactly as advertised and what they hoped that he would be. He was an average veteran QB that gave a team with playoff talent a shot at the playoffs. Had he played all year they may have still missed the playoffs but would have won the Houston game. His stats extrapolated 64.2% completion, 3,772 yards, 22.5 TDs & 12.5 INTs. That would have been on the high end of the range that we all would have expected from Orton or EJ. I don't have hate towards Orton, I'm hoping this move makes the Bills work as hard as possible to get a QB who can perform well being a short term or long term answer. And my $0.02 is that there are many who look at his stats based game by game (2 Jets games), Denver game mop up yardage time etc. I think that changes a lot of folks view on the way KO performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I don't get the Orton hate on here. He was exactly as advertised and what they hoped that he would be. He was an average veteran QB that gave a team with playoff talent a shot at the playoffs. Had he played all year they may have still missed the playoffs but would have won the Houston game. His stats extrapolated 64.2% completion, 3,772 yards, 22.5 TDs & 12.5 INTs. That would have been on the high end of the range that we all would have expected from Orton or EJ. I have been vocal about Orton not being good enough; I certainly wouldn't classify it as hate. I'm sure there's some of that out there, and I haven't read this entire thread well enough. My feeling on the QB position is very simple: you need a franchise guy there, otherwise the other flaws on the team will be magnified. With a franchise QB at the helm, teams can get away without being great in other areas and still make the playoffs and have a chance to win. Without one, you need to be nearly perfect in every other area. I more or less agree with you Kirby. But this is a hard sell to the EJ supporters, some of whom think we would have done better overall had EJ remained the starter all season and presumably developed accordingly. The fact remains Orton is not good enough, though, and we need to improve on him if possible. Look at the top seeded teams in the playoffs Almost all have top 10 QBs. Basically this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 top 30 ranked QB = 9-7 (orton 26th & EJ 32nd) top 25 ranked QB = 10-6 top 20 ranked QB = 11-5 top 15 ranked QB = 12-4 top 10 ranked QB = 13-3 top 5 ranked QB = 14-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Unfortunately Orton DID. He made up his mind about this previously. I feel he should have told Marrone his intentions after the Bills were eliminated last week. He should have told him to start EJ as there was nothing more on the line and he was gone after the season no matter what. I don't get it.... And how do you know he didn't tell Marrone?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 thats what he told dallas..he just wants to avoid pre season again...if he's on the couch and the phone rings.... I absolutely dont want a QB like that.....QBs NEED pre season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I don't get the Orton hate on here. He was exactly as advertised and what they hoped that he would be. He was an average veteran QB that gave a team with playoff talent a shot at the playoffs. Had he played all year they may have still missed the playoffs but would have won the Houston game. His stats extrapolated 64.2% completion, 3,772 yards, 22.5 TDs & 12.5 INTs. That would have been on the high end of the range that we all would have expected from Orton or EJ. I keep reading this notion that if Orton started we would have won the Houston game. How is that? He couldn't beat a 2 win Raiders team or an average Dolphins team or KC. So why is it a forgone conclusion that he beats Houston? There wasn't a single game, that we were a lock to beat, with or without Orton. I more or less agree with you Kirby. But this is a hard sell to the EJ supporters, some of whom think we would have done better overall had EJ remained the starter all season and presumably developed accordingly. The fact remains Orton is not good enough, though, and we need to improve on him if possible. Look at the top seeded teams in the playoffs Almost all have top 10 QBs. And this last statement was my issue with Orton all along. You need a top 10 QB in this league, there' still hope that EJ could develop and become good. But, Orton has proven over the course of his career that he's not. So, why play him all season? Because he gives us the best chance to win? And look what that got us... 9 wins, no playoffs, no QB, and here we sit in pretty much the exact same spot as last year. As I see it, playing Orton all year did nothing but give Marrone the opportunity to puff out his chest and say all he cares about is winning. And in the end, it just wasted a year. Because today our offense is in the exact same position as last year.. With no viable QB on the roster. awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 We will be having this discussion again if we sign Bradford or Cutler. The most accurate post in this entire thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 top 30 ranked QB = 9-7 (orton 26th & EJ 32nd) top 25 ranked QB = 10-6 top 20 ranked QB = 11-5 top 15 ranked QB = 12-4 top 10 ranked QB = 13-3 top 5 ranked QB = 14-2 I see that Orton is ranked 19th in QBR (the version I trust): http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I have been vocal about Orton not being good enough; I certainly wouldn't classify it as hate. I'm sure there's some of that out there, and I haven't read this entire thread well enough. My feeling on the QB position is very simple: you need a franchise guy there, otherwise the other flaws on the team will be magnified. With a franchise QB at the helm, teams can get away without being great in other areas and still make the playoffs and have a chance to win. Without one, you need to be nearly perfect in every other area. Basically this. Just to be clear I feel the same way. He wasn't good enough but was our best option. I fear that we may be looking at similar type QB play next year. The options are limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Just to be clear I feel the same way. He wasn't good enough but was our best option. I fear that we may be looking at similar type QB play next year. The options are limited. I would like to see Pegula swing for the fence on a QB (I know its a REAL HARD swing) on RG III, Sam Bradford, etc etc etc Nothing matters though unless they fix the other issues of the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 Just to be clear I feel the same way. He wasn't good enough but was our best option. I fear that we may be looking at similar type QB play next year. The options are limited. Indeed. Really hoping they'll make a play for Bradford if he becomes available, or in the very least try to land someone with starting potential like Sanchez or Foles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I see that Orton is ranked 19th in QBR (the version I trust): http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating that is called passer rating (not QBR) it doesn't give credit to QB's who are able to keep plays alive with their feet or penalize qb's who are too dumb to avoid a sack, like total QBR does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 I keep reading this notion that if Orton started we would have won the Houston game. How is that? He couldn't beat a 2 win Raiders team or an average Dolphins team or KC. So why is it a forgone conclusion that he beats Houston? There wasn't a single game, that we were a lock to beat, with or without Orton. And this last statement was my issue with Orton all along. You need a top 10 QB in this league, there' still hope that EJ could develop and become good. But, Orton has proven over the course of his career that he's not. So, why play him all season? Because he gives us the best chance to win? And look what that got us... 9 wins, no playoffs, no QB, and here we sit in pretty much the exact same spot as last year. I sat 3 rows from the field in Houston and it was the worst Quarterbacked game that I have ever seen. That's not hyperbole either. There were guys running free EVERYWHERE. If the Bills got really bad QB play in Houston they still would have won. The Oakland game was a loss either way which would have still prevented the team from a playoff berth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 that is called passer rating (not QBR) it doesn't give credit to QB's who are able to keep plays alive with their feet or penalize qb's who are too dumb to avoid a sack, like total QBR does. http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/qbr-espns-deeply-flawed-made-for-tv-stat/7978/ Teams with the best old-rating differential almost always win, and vice versa for the ones that have the worst ones. It's a functonally strong predictive stat, and has been so for decades. I'm not opposed to the new, but I've read a bit about the new version and to me it looks like a craptastic Rube Goldberg machine designed to draw more people into the ESPN maw, partly because ordinary people can't compute the stat themselves. And yes, I am that cynical about ESPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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