Orton Being Underappreciated Again with Bills

[rumblefish]

even Marone is not insane enough to start the 2nd best QB on the team, it would be as Spock would say "illogical"

[dave mcbride]

What is wrong with Orton recently? Seems like he has been off, particularly in terms of accuracy. If he is not going to throw downfield accurately, then he is no longer an upgrade over EJ.

I agree, but guys just didn't seem open yesterday on the deeper routes. I don't know if that's bad coordination or not. On the pick, the throw was off, but the coverage was really good. Watkins couldn't seem to get open either. Even on his catch , he was covered. One thing I will say about Orton yesterday: he did protect the ball well, especially in sack situations. And his INT wasn't a killer either -- a deepish throw from the midfield (pre-scoring opportunity) area that was effectively a punt.

 

I'm not saying he played well, by the way. His lack of mobility is a killer. He just can't extend plays. Again, though he's not fumbling.

Edited December 15, 2014 by dave mcbride

[papazoid]

Orton is the best we have at this point... EJ turns the ball over more

 

With Orton, the defense can win the game. With EJ they cannot overcome his turnovers.

 

Those are low standards but it's what we have to work with

 

Orton in 10 games has 8 int's, 29 sacks and 2 fumbles = 39 / 10 games = 3.9 per game

 

Manuel in 4 games has 3 int's, 6 sacks and 1 fumble = 10 / 4 games = 2.5 per game

[CountDorkula]

This cant be serious.

 

The only reason we were in that/ won that game is because of Defense and Special teams. The offense scored 12 effing points yesterday.

 

How many times do we have to see this team start near or in field goal range and then finish on the other side of the 50. It starts and ends with the QB.

 

Unrealistic expectations? I didn't realize wanting my QB to be able to get the ball in the end zone STARTING IN OPPONENTS TERRITORY was unrealistic. let me apologize for being so unrealistic.

[PolishDave]

I am amazed at the ability of Bills fans to go gather specific stats of their choice in order to twist reality and try to make a point.

 

Orton clearly possesses more football awareness than EJ. That is not even close in my opinion. You can see it most obviously when he is in shotgun formation.

 

He is still more accurate than EJ and gives you the best chance to win (even when considering all his faults).

 

If the coach decided to start EJ now, and if the Bills lost either of the next two games with EJ in there, then it would go down in history as one of the absolute dumbest moves ever made by a Bills head coach.

 

The fact that the Bills have had so many changes at quarterback over the last 2 years and the fact that absolutely none of them have really executed this offense well, should raise some questions about what kind of piece of crap offense design this team is running. This team, even with Orton as QB, would be scoring a lot more points with a better offensive coordinator in my opinion.

[CountDorkula]

I am amazed at the ability of Bills fans to go gather specific stats of their choice in order to twist reality and try to make a point.

 

Orton clearly possesses more football awareness than EJ. That is not even close in my opinion. You can see it most obviously when he is in shotgun formation.

 

He is still more accurate than EJ and gives you the best chance to win (even when considering all his faults).

 

If the coach decided to start EJ now, and if the Bills lost either of the next two games with EJ in there, then it would go down in history as one of the absolute dumbest moves ever made by a Bills head coach.

 

The fact that the Bills have had so many changes at quarterback over the last 2 years and the fact that absolutely none of them have really executed this offense well, should raise some questions about what kind of piece of crap offense design this team is running. This team, even with Orton as QB, would be scoring a lot more points with a better offensive coordinator in my opinion.

 

What the F*** does this have to do with EJ? Is that the only response you people have because you see it too? Orton is terrible. But hey I have to take a shot at a guy who has not played in 10 weeks?

[26CornerBlitz]

I am amazed at the ability of Bills fans to go gather specific stats of their choice in order to twist reality and try to make a point.

 

Orton clearly possesses more football awareness than EJ. That is not even close in my opinion. You can see it most obviously when he is in shotgun formation.

 

He is still more accurate than EJ and gives you the best chance to win (even when considering all his faults).

 

If the coach decided to start EJ now, and if the Bills lost either of the next two games with EJ in there, then it would go down in history as one of the absolute dumbest moves ever made by a Bills head coach.

 

The fact that the Bills have had so many changes at quarterback over the last 2 years and the fact that absolutely none of them have really executed this offense well, should raise some questions about what kind of piece of crap offense design this team is running. This team, even with Orton as QB, would be scoring a lot more points with a better offensive coordinator in my opinion.

 

This doesn't meet the eye test and doesn't hold up under the scrutiny of a statistical comparison either.

Edited December 15, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[PolishDave]

This doesn't meet the eye test and doesn't hold up under the scrutiny of a statistical comparison either.

You want proof?

 

Go ask the Bills receivers who they want running the offense and who they want throwing them the ball.

 

Case closed.

[26CornerBlitz]

You want proof?

 

Go ask the Bills receivers who they want running the offense and who they want throwing them the ball.

 

Case closed.

 

Maybe that would have been true when Orton first took over the QB job. But there's no way in hell they'd say it now after his putrid performances. Ask Chris Gragg why he's missed the past few games with a knee injury and he'd say "Thanks Kyle"

[mannc]

even Marone is not insane enough to start the 2nd best QB on the team, it would be as Spock would say "illogical"

i no longer believe that Orton is better than EJ, but I suppose it is possible that the scheme is what is making Orton look so incompetent.

[Homey D. Clown]

Orton>Fitz>everyone else we can get. Fixed.

 

Agreed. Fitz just had more locker room presence. I liked him, but he's far less capable when it mattered the most. I think everyone just romanticizes the guy because he beat the Patriots in a game once.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Lets all just be honest and say that we want Orton under centre until the pocket collapses. Then we want to morph EJ in there to ellude the pass rush and then morph back to Orton as soon as he is about to pass.

 

 

CBF

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

 

I agree, but guys just didn't seem open yesterday on the deeper routes. I don't know if that's bad coordination or not. On the pick, the throw was off, but the coverage was really good. Watkins couldn't seem to get open either. Even on his catch , he was covered. One thing I will say about Orton yesterday: he did protect the ball well, especially in sack situations. And his INT wasn't a killer either -- a deepish throw from the midfield (pre-scoring opportunity) area that was effectively a punt.

 

I'm not saying he played well, by the way. His lack of mobility is a killer. He just can't extend plays. Again, though he's not fumbling.

 

During the game, I was thinking about what the all-22 would show re the receivers being covered.

 

I think Orton gives us the best chance to win right now, but we have got to see him attempt more downfield throw. I actually loved his pick yesterday-- that's what we need him to do; take some chances downfield.

[bigK14094]

The O yesterday struggled. Orton's characteristics were not the issue, however. On one series, Fred Jackson dropped bot the second and third down passes to him......thats not on Orton. Sammy had a series where he dropped on, had a penality...another 3 and out. Sammy quit on a route late in the game, thats tough when you are throwing to a spot. Glenns problems yesterday.....all in all, Orton didn't stop the O yesterday, the rest of the team more than did there part....and I watched from the 45 yard line 30 rows up.

[CountDorkula]

The O yesterday struggled. Orton's characteristics were not the issue, however. On one series, Fred Jackson dropped bot the second and third down passes to him......thats not on Orton. Sammy had a series where he dropped on, had a penality...another 3 and out. Sammy quit on a route late in the game, thats tough when you are throwing to a spot. Glenns problems yesterday.....all in all, Orton didn't stop the O yesterday, the rest of the team more than did there part....and I watched from the 45 yard line 30 rows up.

 

I watched form TV. ORton was terrible. In face Kyle Orton’s 17.2 QBR yesterday was his worst since Week 5 of 2011.

[26CornerBlitz]

During the game, I was thinking about what the all-22 would show re the receivers being covered.

 

I think Orton gives us the best chance to win right now, but we have got to see him attempt more downfield throw. I actually loved his pick yesterday-- that's what we need him to do; take some chances downfield.

 

I've seen this posted several times with nothing to support the statement based on Orton's actual game performance. He's gotten worse as the season has progressed with the offense being at its most inept with him in the lineup.

[PolishDave]

What the F*** does this have to do with EJ? Is that the only response you people have because you see it too? Orton is terrible. But hey I have to take a shot at a guy who has not played in 10 weeks?

I would rather not talk about EJ either. As of right now the guy is simply a backup QB on a team with below average quarterbacks. But if you read any of this thread except for my post you would see that I am not the one who brought EJ into this conversation. I was simply responding to the people who did bring him into this conversation. Every time there is a discussion about Orton and his drawbacks, the EJ fan base comes in and starts saying how EJ should be playing and how EJ is better than Orton blah blah blah. You want to B word about the EJ talk, go B word at them.

[Dibs]

I love the whole "My opinion is right and anyone who disagrees is wrong!" thing myself. It's what makes the internet such a wonderful place to live in.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Dibs

[C-Man]

Shut up about Orton already. He is not going anywhere this year.

 

This team just needs to crawl into the playoffs any way it can. I will take ugly wins. Let next year take care of itself.

 

There is NO QB I see out there that is worth bringing in next season. Let Kyle and EJ compete in camp and let's see where we land. We have no draft picks. I for one liked Dysert as a third guy, but I doubt the Broncos will let him go.

 

This organization and fan base needs success this year. Us making it to the playoffs will be sweet. I personally want to see success so we can put to rest: 1. the Watkins talk 2. Marrone 3. Whalley. The team needs stability.

[Livinginthepast]

Ultimately Orton is not a viable QB going forward (next year), but for now he is the best we got. He is better than EJ and better than Fitz. He is however who we thought he was. A journeyman QB who can win some games by himself but is mediocre overall. I was curious if the Bills could do a Trent Dilfer with him and win with him managing the game and rely on their defense. The Ravens team that won the SB with Dilfer had a better defense though.