SouthernMan Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Can anyone help me understand the logic of the 'forward pass' ruling? IMO, the Bills were denied a touchdown when Manziel had the ball knocked out of his hand and the ball was recovered by the Bills in the endzone. OK- so the Bills won - great. But what if a call like that is the difference between a win or loss, making the playoffs or not? Here's the problem: Is a pump fake counted as a pass on a stat sheet? The arm is moving forward, right? Obviously it's not a pass. So, if the ball never left Manziel's hand until it was knocked out by a Bill defender, how the hell is that considered a pass? How does the official know if it was only a pump fake or not? Furthermore, if a QB throws an pass (for example) to a receiver behind him, it's considered a fumble and a live ball if the intended receiver doesn't catch it. With that in mind, the ball clearly never left Manziel's grip on a forward trajectory. If we swallow the idea that it was an incompleted pass, it still should have been ruled a fumble as the ball never went forward. Or, we could look at it from this angle - we've seen Orton flagged a couple times recently for intentional grounding, even though he had a receiver in the proximity of the thrown pass. Who was Manziel's target? He was still between the tackles. He wasn't 'clocking' the ball. At the very least, why wasn't he flagged for intentional grounding if we accept that it was a pass? In respect to the game yesterday, it was a moot point as the Bills stopped them on downs and went on to win. But my issue is the inconsistency with officiating, this year more than ever it seems. Either the rule defies logic, or the officials are incompetent. There's no other choice. Lastly, the play in question was ruled a touchdown on the field, yet the officials found 'conclusive evidence' to overturn that original ruling? The players and coaches work too hard from training camp to the end of December trying to secure an important win in a short 16 game season to have these indecisive clowns in stripes make decisions that can effect the outcome. I've never seen officiating as bad or inconsistent as it's been this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 It sucks as I didn't think he had the ball moving forward, but that's how they saw it. It was fun watching Kyle knock him into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 All valid points. I don't think even Jerome Boger could give you convincing answers to your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Ref got it wrong. Obviously the tuck rule still lives and is applied selectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I said it in the Johnny thread - my biggest issue is that they actually reversed the call on the field, meaning after review they found indisputable evidence that he didn't pull the ball back in. It is complete BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichVP Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I said it in the Johnny thread - my biggest issue is that they actually reversed the call on the field, meaning after review they found indisputable evidence that he didn't pull the ball back in. It is complete BS. That is my biggest gripe. Secondly though Manziel and the entire Browns offense had there helmets off as if they knew it was a foregone conclusion that it was a touchdown. The look on Johnny's face when they said incomplete wasn't of happiness it was of shock and disbelief. In my opinion anyway. As little as that counts for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 It was the typical NFL call that makes those with good sense know they are watching a "presentation" of football, and not an honest sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Fortunately for the Bills they made enough plays to win the game in spite of it. Fantastic play by the Bills D-line. It's amazing that KW is playing at such a high level after a few years of achilles issues and major surgery. KW is a Bill forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivermont Mike Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Williams did Johnny Football a favor by shoving him to the ground. If he hit Manziel full-on at full speed and landed on top of him, there'd be nothing left but an orange-y-brown, ego-soaked, greasy smear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 That is my biggest gripe. Secondly though Manziel and the entire Browns offense had there helmets off as if they knew it was a foregone conclusion that it was a touchdown. The look on Johnny's face when they said incomplete wasn't of happiness it was of shock and disbelief. In my opinion anyway. As little as that counts for. Manziel actually said after the game that he never thought it was an incomplete pass!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasBillsFan1 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I think the Competition Committee needs to look at the "Tuck" rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I have been saying all year the league needs to do something about the rules and officiating. After watching college one day and then the NFL, it is apparent that the games are becoming unwatchable and downright random. They are going to drive fans away from the game. There was no need to change the emphasis heading into this season on illegal contact. The game had plenty of scoring an offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 It was the typical NFL call that makes those with good sense know they are watching a "presentation" of football, and not an honest sport. I completely disagree. I get that the NFL has some officiating issues that can improve the sport. These men are sacrificing their bodies in an alarming way and they are dictating who wins and loses most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) I think the Competition Committee needs to look at the "Tuck" rule. Officially, it was abolished last year. Unofficially, it apparently still exists. Edited December 1, 2014 by BuffaloWings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) I think the Competition Committee needs to look at the "Tuck" rule. They already did. Tuck rule plays are to be called fumbles exactly as "on the field" yesterday. Manziel's fumble overturned Cleveland Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel coughs up the ball for a Buffalo Bills touchdown, but the play is overturned and ruled an incomplete pass after a review. Edited December 1, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I said it in the Johnny thread - my biggest issue is that they actually reversed the call on the field, meaning after review they found indisputable evidence that he didn't pull the ball back in. It is complete BS. This was my problem too. Had Marrone been forced to challenge (presumably after watching the replay and saying "are you f'n kidding me?") And the refs wouldn't overturn it that would be one thing. Reversing a call on the field that the replay expert thought was cut and dry... It wouldn't annoy me as much if we didn't hear so much about JF's one decent drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 It was the typical NFL call that makes those with good sense know they are watching a "presentation" of football, and not an honest sport. I completely agree. How could anyone in their right mind have reversed this call. Unless of course the league wanted to showcase Manziel by showing the TD he scored and not have to sully it with the fact that he lost a fumble for a Bills TD. If you watched the Sunday night highlight show before the game on NBC, of course that is exactly what happened. Johnny football had a wonderful debut, scoring a TD on his first ever possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichVP Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Manziel actually said after the game that he never thought it was an incomplete pass!! Ridiculous. I remember talk prior to this season, maybe near the end of last season, of needing to cut the rule book down and simplify it. Where did that sentiment go? The rules this year seem so muddled and arbitrarily applied that it is getting hard to watch. If I wasn't, if most of us weren't, such serious Bills fans I wouldn't be surprised if most of us wouldn't watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 The funny (sad) thing is, happening almost simultaneously in the Jax/NYG game, Jax sealed their win by sack/fumbling Eli, and it was a tuck rule scenario! Very very similar plays and the officiating crew in that game apparently got the memo that the tuck rule is no longer in effect in the NFL, and so confirmed the call on the field of a fumble recovered by Jax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I've never been one of those people who think the NFL is rigged, because I always thought there was too many variables. But the fact that they overruled that play made me really question things. It was so clear that the ball was being pulled back in when the fumble occurred, hell if it was called incomplete and challenged, it was clear enough for THAT to be overturned. The fact that they "reviewed" the play and overturned the play on the field, is complete bull ****, and makes me really wonder what is going on behind the scenes. Do they have a vested interest in protecting Manziel, and presenting him as a hero? Were they trying to set up a comeback for ratings and news stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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