A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[John Adams]

I don't care about Gilmore. He's "fine." There's no need to want him gone--he just didn't live up to the hype that he'd be a true shutdown corner. The Bills problems are on the other side of the ball.

 

I wonder what the rushing yards average is from the shotgun. It must suck. The Bills appear awful from the gun. I noticed it last year especially with EJ. This year it's the same thing. The Bills were in shotgun seemingly 90% of the game. In the 4th quarter was the only time they weren't.

 

Among other things, shotgun takes away all flexibility and creativity in the running game. Play action is virtually nonexistent as are any kind of pitch or roll out (not that Orton is a rollout QB). But it limits the offense terribly. This is one of my biggest Hacket peeves. Put the QB under center.

 

Also, I am damn glad Manziel didn't come in earlier. The energy he brought to the Browns was real. He had the bad play on the fumble-TD-reversed but I did not like the way he was playing at all. Good luck to the teams that might face him in the coming weeks.

Edited December 1, 2014 by John Adams

[thebandit27]

I don't care about Gilmore. He's "fine." There's no need to want him gone--he just didn't live up to the hype that he'd be a true shutdown corner. The Bills problems are on the other side of the ball.

 

I wonder what the rushing yards average is from the shotgun. It must suck. The Bills appear awful from the gun. I noticed it last year especially with EJ. This year it's the same thing. The Bills were in shotgun seemingly 90% of the game. In the 4th quarter was the only time they weren't.

 

Among other things, shotgun takes away all flexibility and creativity in the running game. Play action is virtually nonexistent as are any kind of pitch or roll out (not that Orton is a rollout QB). But it limits the offense terribly. This is one of my biggest Hacket peeves. Put the QB under center.

 

Also, I am damn glad Manziel didn't come in earlier. The energy he brought to the Browns was real. He had the bad play on the fumble-TD-reversed but I did not like the way he was playing at all. Good luck to the teams that might face him in the coming weeks.

 

Agreed on the shotgun. My problem with it is that it forces the RB to pause and start from a stand-still. At least when the QB has to turn and hand him the ball he's got somewhat of a running start.

 

As to Manziel, the biggest contribution to his success was Buffalo's 3 best DLmen being on the bench. As soon as they came back in, he did nothing. I don't mean to discredit the emotional boost he provided; I just think there's a lot to be said for not having to stare down the pursuit of Mario, Kyle, and Marcell.

[Maddog69]

Yep. This weekly post is the single best post on this board. Delighted it is back Bill.

Agree with this 100%

 

Thanks for posting, Bill. I always enjoy reading your thoughts on the game.

 

[JohnC]

 

I look to Bill (the OP) as a great example. He's never been a fan of the Gilmore pick, and has been outspoken about his general dislike for Gilmore's play. If he's able to view it objectively and compliment him, that should tell folks a lot.

 

Bill goes berserk when CBs and RBs are drafted in the first round. If you think he is biased against Gilmore then bring up his name to Badol. Make sure you are out of the way win the ferocity of his response sprays spittle all over the place.

 

I consider Gilmore to be in the top third of the CB rankings. (My personal ranking!} If he had better ball skills he would be an elite CB. That's my opinion that obviously goes against the crowd.

[thebandit27]

Bill goes berserk when CBs and RBs are drafted in the first round. If you think he is biased against Gilmore then bring up his name to Badol. Make sure you are out of the way win the ferocity of his response sprays spittle all over the place.

 

I consider Gilmore to be in the top third of the CB rankings. (My personal ranking!} If he had better ball skills he would be an elite CB. That's my opinion that obviously goes against the crowd.

 

I know both Bill and BADOL--at least I know their board personas.

 

Interestingly enough, I've spoken, at length, to both about Gilmore. BADOL and I even had a PM chat about him.

 

What's funny is that our opinions on the player really aren't that far apart: he's a very good cover man whose play on the football isn't good enough. I think the only deviation is that those dudes believe that a guy drafted in the top 10 should be a de facto shutdown CB. My opinion on the matter is that there really is no such thing as a shutdown CB in today's NFL. Witness Joe Haden being out-fought by Robert Woods, Darelle Revis getting torched by Jordy Nelson, and Patrick Peterson suffering repeated roastings by Julio Jones.

[JohnC]

I know both Bill and BADOL--at least I know their board personas.

 

Interestingly enough, I've spoken, at length, to both about Gilmore. BADOL and I even had a PM chat about him.

 

What's funny is that our opinions on the player really aren't that far apart: he's a very good cover man whose play on the football isn't good enough. I think the only deviation is that those dudes believe that a guy drafted in the top 10 should be a de facto shutdown CB. My opinion on the matter is that there really is no such thing as a shutdown CB in today's NFL. Witness Joe Haden being out-fought by Robert Woods, Darelle Revis getting torched by Jordy Nelson, and Patrick Peterson suffering repeated roastings by Julio Jones.

 

I don't put Haden in the same lofty category of Revis and Peterson. What a lot of critics don't factor in when assessing CBs is that the NFL has altered the rules that shackle the defenders ' ability to cover the receivers. This year the rulings have not only handicapped the defenders but have made the game difficult to watch. The calls against incidental contact are not only ridiculous.but they kill the flow of the game. Balance and common sense are lost in the officiating of the game.

 

The thing about Gilmore is that he was drafted almost exactly where he was ranked. And people still complain about that selection. If you get a long term starter from a little higher than a mid-first round pick you have made not only a good pick but also a good value pick.

Edited December 1, 2014 by JohnC

[Coach Tuesday]

I know both Bill and BADOL--at least I know their board personas.

 

Interestingly enough, I've spoken, at length, to both about Gilmore. BADOL and I even had a PM chat about him.

 

What's funny is that our opinions on the player really aren't that far apart: he's a very good cover man whose play on the football isn't good enough. I think the only deviation is that those dudes believe that a guy drafted in the top 10 should be a de facto shutdown CB. My opinion on the matter is that there really is no such thing as a shutdown CB in today's NFL. Witness Joe Haden being out-fought by Robert Woods, Darelle Revis getting torched by Jordy Nelson, and Patrick Peterson suffering repeated roastings by Julio Jones.

 

My thing with Gilmore is that he seems to lack some spatial awareness that causes both his ball skills to suffer, on the one hand, and his pre-snap lineup/depth to suffer, on the other hand. I think the coaches actually give him a fair amount of discretion in terms of how much cushion to give WRs off of the snap (except on certain blitzes and pressure packages), and he has not yet mastered this element of his game. There was a third down play yesterday where he cushioned Gordon too much, proceeded to give up the first down, and then pounded his fists in frustration about it - he realized he gave up too much depth pre-snap. He seems to do this quite a bit. He either underestimates his own speed, or the opposing WR's speed (or both), perhaps. I'm not sure how best to explain it and maybe some of you with more X's and O's chops can explain it to me. But I think it's related to the poor ball skills and has to do with a lack of spacial awareness. Something like that.

[JohnC]

My thing with Gilmore is that he seems to lack some spatial awareness that causes both his ball skills to suffer, on the one hand, and his pre-snap lineup/depth to suffer, on the other hand. I think the coaches actually give him a fair amount of discretion in terms of how much cushion to give WRs off of the snap (except on certain blitzes and pressure packages), and he has not yet mastered this element of his game. There was a third down play yesterday where he cushioned Gordon too much, proceeded to give up the first down, and then pounded his fists in frustration about it - he realized he gave up too much depth pre-snap. He seems to do this quite a bit. He either underestimates his own speed, or the opposing WR's speed (or both), perhaps. I'm not sure how best to explain it and maybe some of you with more X's and O's chops can explain it to me. But I think it's related to the poor ball skills and has to do with a lack of spacial awareness. Something like that.

 

Gilmore does have good coverage skills but he does not have high end ball skills i.e. reaction to the ball. He, like McKelvin, is usually around the ball.

 

With your observations about his coverage of Gordon you have to remember that Gordon is a big time talent who can make big plays. If he wasn't such a knucklehead he would get more recogniztion as an elite receiver in the league. In yesterday's game Gilmore was smart in keeping him for the most part in front of him. When covering such a talented receiver you can't expect a total shutdown. If this caliber of receiver is being contained without making the dynamic big pay then the defender is doing his job.

Edited December 1, 2014 by JohnC

[thebandit27]

I don't put Haden in the same lofty category of Revis and Peterson. What a lot of critics don't factor in when assessing CBs is that the NFL has altered the rules that shackle the defenders ' ability to cover the receivers. This year the rulings have not only handicapped the defenders but have made the game difficult to watch. The calls against incidental contact are not only ridiculous.but they kill the flow of the game. Balance and common sense are lost in the officiating of the game. The thing about Gilmore is that he was drafted almost exactly where he was ranked. And people still complain about that selection. If you get a long term starter from a little higher than a mid-first round pick you have made not only a good pick but also a good value pick.

 

I pretty much agree with all of that.

 

My thing with Gilmore is that he seems to lack some spatial awareness that causes both his ball skills to suffer, on the one hand, and his pre-snap lineup/depth to suffer, on the other hand. I think the coaches actually give him a fair amount of discretion in terms of how much cushion to give WRs off of the snap (except on certain blitzes and pressure packages), and he has not yet mastered this element of his game. There was a third down play yesterday where he cushioned Gordon too much, proceeded to give up the first down, and then pounded his fists in frustration about it - he realized he gave up too much depth pre-snap. He seems to do this quite a bit. He either underestimates his own speed, or the opposing WR's speed (or both), perhaps. I'm not sure how best to explain it and maybe some of you with more X's and O's chops can explain it to me. But I think it's related to the poor ball skills and has to do with a lack of spacial awareness. Something like that.

 

Pretty accurate IMO.

 

The best way I can describe his deficiency is that he seems not to trust his technique. He drives on the ball really well, and he seems to react just fine to WRs going into/coming out of their breaks. I mean, the close and ball-play he made on Mike Wallace in the Miami Thursday game (which was erroneously called as DPI) was as good a play as I've seen a CB make. He had outside responsibility, kept a 10-yard cushion, and still was able to break on the upfield shoulder of his man to break up the play. Seems like when he reacts, he does absolutely fine. When he thinks too much he gets himself in trouble. I'm hoping that his feel for the game will continue to develop, as he really does have outstanding cover skills.

[norton20]

Apparently Watkins was hurt vs Browns (and may well still be dinged from groin injury before that):

 

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/12/01/sammy-watkins-suffered-hip-injury-browns/

 

I know it has been said a few thousand times before but our guards are terrible and watching them try to block perfectly set up screen passes is depressing. They have zero mobility. Those plays should go for more than 6 yards.

[The Frankish Reich]

I don't care about Gilmore. He's "fine." There's no need to want him gone--he just didn't live up to the hype that he'd be a true shutdown corner. The Bills problems are on the other side of the ball.

 

I wonder what the rushing yards average is from the shotgun. It must suck. The Bills appear awful from the gun. I noticed it last year especially with EJ. This year it's the same thing. The Bills were in shotgun seemingly 90% of the game. In the 4th quarter was the only time they weren't.

 

Among other things, shotgun takes away all flexibility and creativity in the running game. Play action is virtually nonexistent as are any kind of pitch or roll out (not that Orton is a rollout QB). But it limits the offense terribly. This is one of my biggest Hacket peeves. Put the QB under center.

 

Also, I am damn glad Manziel didn't come in earlier. The energy he brought to the Browns was real. He had the bad play on the fumble-TD-reversed but I did not like the way he was playing at all. Good luck to the teams that might face him in the coming weeks.

I often hear the sports pundits saying things like "to run the ball effectively requires a commitment to the run." I've always been skeptical, but ... watching the Broncos over the last month kind of proves the point. The running game had faded into irrelevance. And then what happened? They added an extra blocker to the already re-worked O line, and they started playing with a mission to establish the run. Last 2 weeks, CJ Anderson (a third stringer coming into the season) has 160 yards in each game. And that's with Peyton still working out of the pistol/shotgun virtually every play. No, we're not the Broncos on offense, so it's not as easy to do (establishing the run is easier when the D still has to be preoccupied with the likes of D. Thomas, Sanders, and Welker, and Orton is not Peyton), but the Broncos have made me a believer in the whole commitment to the run thing.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

I know both Bill and BADOL--at least I know their board personas.

 

Interestingly enough, I've spoken, at length, to both about Gilmore. BADOL and I even had a PM chat about him.

 

What's funny is that our opinions on the player really aren't that far apart: he's a very good cover man whose play on the football isn't good enough. I think the only deviation is that those dudes believe that a guy drafted in the top 10 should be a de facto shutdown CB. My opinion on the matter is that there really is no such thing as a shutdown CB in today's NFL. Witness Joe Haden being out-fought by Robert Woods, Darelle Revis getting torched by Jordy Nelson, and Patrick Peterson suffering repeated roastings by Julio Jones.

If there is no such thing as a shutdown corner, why draft one with a top 10 pick, this on a team with serious quarterback problems?

The rule changes have completely revolutionized this sport. What IS interesting is that the most important positions remain the same.

NFL football teams need a better than average QB, pass rushers and blocking in order to win football games.

Defensive backs are of little importance compared to the above.

And btw, Searcy and Robey are making play after play. Isn't it interesting to note where they were drafted as compared to the rest of our secondary?

[truth on hold]

 

If there is no such thing as a shutdown corner, why draft one with a top 10 pick, this on a team with serious quarterback problems?

The rule changes have completely revolutionized this sport. What IS interesting is that the most important positions remain the same.

NFL football teams need a better than average QB, pass rushers and blocking in order to win football games.

Defensive backs are of little importance compared to the above.

And btw, Searcy and Robey are making play after play. Isn't it interesting to note where they were drafted as compared to the rest of our secondary?

By that logic then we shouldnt draft DL in Rd1, look where Kyle Williams was drafted! You get good players where you can. Had teams known how good Richard Sherman was you really think he's not a top 10 pick? Lol OK. You think its a coincidence the team with the best secondary also won the super bowl last year? Rule changes don't invalidate DBs, if anything greater passing increases their importance. Also what shouldnt be lost is that quality secondary also play a big role in run support.

[Bill from NYC]

 

By that logic then we shouldnt draft DL in Rd1, look where Kyle Williams was drafted! You get good players where you can. Had teams known how good Richard Sherman was you really think he's not a top 10 pick? Lol OK. You think its a coincidence the team with the best secondary also won the super bowl last year? Rule changes don't invalidate DBs, if anything greater passing increases their importance. Also what shouldnt be lost is that quality secondary also play a big role in run support.

 

OK....teams frequently line up in 4 or 5 wide formations. Let's draft defensive backs in round 1 instead of pass rushers. We can cover them all with first round, or perhaps top 10 picks.

Sounds like a plan, right?

Lets forget about QBs, LTs and pass rushing DEs. They are a dime a dozen and matter less than the aptly titled "secondary."

Wait.....we did this and haven't made the playoffs in this century.

Never mind.

[truth on hold]

 

 

OK....teams frequently line up in 4 or 5 wide formations. Let's draft defensive backs in round 1 instead of pass rushers. We can cover them all with first round, or perhaps top 10 picks.

Sounds like a plan, right?

Lets forget about QBs, LTs and pass rushing DEs. They are a dime a dozen and matter less than the aptly titled "secondary."

Wait.....we did this and haven't made the playoffs in this century.

Never mind.

I never said any of that, simply responding to your heavily biased view that a)dB's are not important given rules changes and b) they can all easily be had in late rounds. And since it was so easily dismissed its no wonder you can't respond directly to it.

Edited December 1, 2014 by JTSP

[34-78-83]

As much as I have loved the play making of Searcy, Robey and the like (a credit to them) they are not covering #1 and #2 wideouts in most situations throughout a game.

[Bill from NYC]

 

I never said any of that, simply responding to your heavily biased view that a)dB's are not important given rules changes and b) they can all easily be had in late rounds. And since it was so easily dismissed its no wonder you can't respond directly to it.

 

I'm sorry. I don't mean to sound dismissive. OK? In fact, I apologize for sounding as such.

 

I ask you why, in your opinion, do the Bills have a better record this season.

 

I think that its primarily because of the pass rush. Next (imho) would be because Orton isn't as painfully bad as Manuel. I really don't think that its because of the secondary.

 

Put a top 15 qb and better blocking on the Buffalo Bills and they are superbowl contenders but of course, this is simply mho.

 

And btw thanks for the dialogue.

[JohnC]

OK....teams frequently line up in 4 or 5 wide formations. Let's draft defensive backs in round 1 instead of pass rushers. We can cover them all with first round, or perhaps top 10 picks.

Sounds like a plan, right?

Lets forget about QBs, LTs and pass rushing DEs. They are a dime a dozen and matter less than the aptly titled "secondary."

Wait.....we did this and haven't made the playoffs in this century.

Never mind.

 

If you want to criticize the Bills don't do so because of the positions they draft, criticize them for their evaluations in general. Russell Wilson was bypassed for Graham. Whitner was not a draft mistake because he was a safety but because he was simply overdrafted as a player. If Earl Thomas is drafted at a high point it has little to do with the position he plays and more to do with his talent level.

 

We have been through this argument many times over with little resolution. From my perspective Gilmore, regardless of his position, was selected where he was ranked. He is going to be a long time starter at one of the most difficult positions in the game. I have no complaints about his selection. For you it is a constant source of irritation. You and Badol are soul-mates on this topic.

 

The Bills drafted a qb in the first round last year. Is it a hit or a miss? As it stands I am less than confident about that selection. Not because of the position which obviously is important, but because there is a good chance that they simply misjudged the talent.

 

Now I have a greater difference with you over the importance of the CB position because of the aggravating changing of the rules of the no touching policy for CBs.. Because it is even more difficult to cover receivers there is a greater need for a higher end talent to contain (not stop) the receivers.

 

If I really wanted to irritate you I would bring up the Spiller topic. But I won't because I am a considerate and empathetic person.

[Bill from NYC]

As much as I have loved the play making of Searcy, Robey and the like (a credit to them) they are not covering #1 and #2 wideouts in most situations throughout a game.

 

You are right, but in SOME situations they are. Teams move receivers around these days. It isn't like Mel Blount covering a teams best receiver on every play.

My point is that I will take pass rushers over DBs every day. And for that matter qbs over rbs.

 

It's a different game today.

[Bill from NYC]

Now I have a greater difference with you over the importance of the CB position because of the aggravating changing of the rules of the no touching policy for CBs.. Because it is even more difficult to cover receivers there is a greater need for a higher end talent to contain (not stop) the receivers.

 

If I really wanted to irritate you I would bring up the Spiller topic. But I won't because I am a considerate and empathetic person.

 

John, you have nowhere to go wrt Spiller. And btw, I think that the combo of Robey and Searcy have won us as many football games as Spiller and Whitner (top 10 picks) or more.

Our front 4 is what might get us to or even over .500 this year, coupled with somewhat respectable qb play.

This of course is strictly my opinion, and it is always great to hear from you.

[machine gun kelly]

Sorry, but #13 was my favorite item.

 

Amen. It's ok Bill. We all loved that little twit getting knocked on his ass. Wit til teams game plan for him and create a spy like they do with other mobile QB's. He's going to get killed by Suggs in a couple of weeks.

[thebandit27]

 

If there is no such thing as a shutdown corner, why draft one with a top 10 pick, this on a team with serious quarterback problems?

The rule changes have completely revolutionized this sport. What IS interesting is that the most important positions remain the same.

NFL football teams need a better than average QB, pass rushers and blocking in order to win football games.

Defensive backs are of little importance compared to the above.

And btw, Searcy and Robey are making play after play. Isn't it interesting to note where they were drafted as compared to the rest of our secondary?

 

If we're going by positional importance, then no position other than QB should be a top 10 IMO. That said, I can't fault the team for passing on Brandon Weeden and Russell Wilson with the pick they used on Gilmore.

 

My personal opinion is that outside of QB and pass rusher, every position pales in comparison in terms of importance. Even OTs are becoming easier and easier to find nowadays.

 

As for the playmaking of Robey/Searcy in comparison to Gilmore, if hope that's the case. For one, safeties should be the guys makin the most plays on the football, as they rarely find themselves in 1-on-1 coverage. I also don't put a ton of stock into which CBs have the most PDs etc, as I don't find it to be a great barometer on play. That said, Robey clearly has very good ball skills.

 

Anyway, I know you're against selecting certain positions in the first round, and that's totally fine. My statement was a nod to your ability to separate that viewpoint from the player and his performance.

[34-78-83]

You are right, but in SOME situations they are. Teams move receivers around these days. It isn't like Mel Blount covering a teams best receiver on every play.

My point is that I will take pass rushers over DBs every day. And for that matter qbs over rbs.

 

It's a different game today.

Agreed with those preferences:)

[enlightener]

 

i usually dont say this, nor agree with hardly anyone here, but i agree with every point you said (except 5) wtf is that song?. I would add sammy is a soft as a baby marshmellow whether hampered by injury or not. he goes down faster than tim brown ever did after a catch. i hope its injury, i would hate to think hes actually that much of a wuss. anyway great post. Edited December 2, 2014 by enlightener

[truth on hold]

I'm sorry. I don't mean to sound dismissive. OK? In fact, I apologize for sounding as such.

 

I ask you why, in your opinion, do the Bills have a better record this season.

 

I think that its primarily because of the pass rush. Next (imho) would be because Orton isn't as painfully bad as Manuel. I really don't think that its because of the secondary.

 

Put a top 15 qb and better blocking on the Buffalo Bills and they are superbowl contenders but of course, this is simply mho.

 

And btw thanks for the dialogue.

no doubt the investments on the defensive side of the ball are paying off, including Gilmore (RD1), Aaron Williams (RD2) and McKelvin (RD1) before he got hurt.

 

My point is that you can win with different defensive philosophies ... Giants recent super bowls were about the front 7. Seahawks last year was about the LOB Secondary (and a 3rd round QB). My preference (and I acknowledge it as much given there are different paths to success) would be to build from the secondary because that keeps the play in front of them and neutralizes the big play from the offense, and contributes in run support and with coverage sacks. And those games where the pass rush isnt getting pressure (which happens no matter how good the front 7) you're not exposed. A weak secondary and no pressure, is doomed

Edited December 2, 2014 by JTSP

[GunnerBill]

The Seahawks had a very good and very deep front last year too. With a couple of those guys departed to Jacksonville their rotation hasn't been nearly as good and the secondary has suffered. Anyone who doesn't believe in the value of rotating the defensive front, not overplaying guys and keeping them fresh for those critical pass rush situations need only look at the Bills this year and what Schwartz has been able to do given Lawson, Bryant, Charles and Wynn as guys he can rotate in.

[JohnC]

John, you have nowhere to go wrt Spiller. And btw, I think that the combo of Robey and Searcy have won us as many football games as Spiller and Whitner (top 10 picks) or more.

Our front 4 is what might get us to or even over .500 this year, coupled with somewhat respectable qb play.

This of course is strictly my opinion, and it is always great to hear from you.

 

Big Apple Bill, Robey is one of my favorite players on the Bills. His football instincts are elite and he is a tough player.He is a terrific slot corner. If you put him on the outside he would be out of his element and not be a successful player. The role he is playing as an inside back suits his talents.

 

Coupling Whitner with Spiller is an offense that you will have to do penance for. Whitner was a failed draft pick not because he was a safety but because he was over-drafted. My primary criticism of Spiller has little to do with him and more to do with the way he is used by this very unimaginative coaching staff. The staff built a large, slow and sluggish OL that is incapable of utiliizing his talents. Spiller is not primarily an inside runner; I wish the play caller will stop with that foolishness. That isn't his fault. Since Spiller has been on the team there hasn't been a player who has made more big plays than he has.

 

I strongly believe that Whaley is going to sign him to a deal (possibly short term because of his injury) that will keep him on the team. He values big play players that are hard to find.

[Coach Tuesday]

Spiller wasn't doing much to begin the season, but watching these plodders run behind other unathletic plodders makes me wish he was healthy and in there. He would've broken a few big gains the past couple of weeks. Dixon is 100% heart but simply lacks the athleticism to make a cutback. FJax's body has started to wear down big time, there is no explosion there. And Bryce Brown probably cost us the playoffs with that fumble against KC. I miss CJ.

[C.Biscuit97]

Spiller wasn't doing much to begin the season, but watching these plodders run behind other unathletic plodders makes me wish he was healthy and in there. He would've broken a few big gains the past couple of weeks. Dixon is 100% heart but simply lacks the athleticism to make a cutback. FJax's body has started to wear down big time, there is no explosion there. And Bryce Brown probably cost us the playoffs with that fumble against KC. I miss CJ.

 

A good offensive mind would have made Spiller a weapon. Hackett runs him up the middle.

 

But all Hackett needs is a back like Bryce Brown to fit his system.

[Coach Tuesday]

A good offensive mind would have made Spiller a weapon. Hackett runs him up the middle.

 

But all Hackett needs is a back like Bryce Brown to fit his system.

 

Whaley traded for Bryce Brown, Mike Williams, and Sammy Watkins, all three of whom are under-utilized by Whaley's coaches. I'll keep saying it: the coaches and GM are not on the same page, and it's going to end poorly for one group. Let's assume losses to GB, Denver and NE - that means best-case scenario is 8-8, which I just don't think is good enough to save Marrone's job. And if they somehow lose to Oakland, meaning they end the season with four losses including to a cellar-dweller - you can definitely kiss Marrone goodbye. I don't mean to rain on the parade but I'm afraid the Browns game was the high point and the next month is going to be very, very rough.

[JohnC]

A good offensive mind would have made Spiller a weapon. Hackett runs him up the middle.

 

But all Hackett needs is a back like Bryce Brown to fit his system.

 

The way the OL is constructed makes it difficult for Spiller to succeed in this offense. Swing passes and outside runs are not effective if your linemen can't move. But even within the physical limitations of the linemen's makeup Spiller has not been properly utilized.

 

If you put Spiller on a Kelly coached team in Philly he would be a sterling player who consistely makes big plays. Playing to a player's weaknesses rather than his strengths is not smart. It's a shame that one of the most talented players on this team (and in the league) is being squandered because of a dullard approach to the offense.

 

I do believe that Whaley respects Spiller's special abilities more than Marrone does. The combination of Watkins and Spiller should spread the defense and result in a number dynamic plays. It's such a shame and so wasteful of talent.

[Coach Tuesday]

The way the OL is constructed makes it difficult for Spiller to succeed in this offense. Swing passes and outside runs are not effective if your linemen can't move. But even within the physical limitations of the linemen's makeup Spiller has not been properly utilized.

 

If you put Spiller on a Kelly coached team in Philly he would be a sterling player who consistely makes big plays. Playing to a player's weaknesses rather than his strengths is not smart. It's a shame that one of the most talented players on this team (and in the league) is being squandered because of a dullard approach to the offense.

 

I do believe that Whaley respects Spiller's special abilities more than Marrone does. The combination of Watkins and Spiller should spread the defense and result in a number dynamic plays. It's such a shame and so wasteful of talent.

 

But it also reflects an utter lack of sound strategic planning, and some of that falls squarely on Whaley's shoulders. He hired a coach with a ground-and-pound, ball-control offensive philosophy who must've made clear his preference for big, lumbering offensive linemen and bunch formations. Instead of arming this coach with big athletic guards and tight ends, he stockpiled speedsters like Bryce Brown and Watkins, and traded for Mike Williams. I'm just not sure what the overall strategy is - what is the "elevator speech" that Whaley gives to describe the Bills' strategy on offense? Does it mirror what Marrone would say? If not, doesn't that speak volumes about the state of OBD?

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

1) All Preston Brown, Bradham and Spikes did today was kick peoples asses. This is one trio of tough, badass linebackers.

 

2) The pick by Orton in the early second quarter (in the end zone) was a bad one. It actually looked like a rookie mistake. More on Orton to come.

 

3) Gilmore was getting beat on short passes in the entire first half. I must however say that he came around and had an all around good game.

 

4) I am concerned about Cordy Glenn. He looked like a plodding Right Tackle today imo. I don't know what his problem is but it is a concern.

 

5) I live in a silver mine,

and I call it Beggar's Tomb.

I got me a violin

and I beg you call the tune.

Anybody's choice,

I can hear your voice.

Wo-oah what I want to know-oh,

How does the song go?

 

6) Sammy Watkins is hobbled. There is no debate here. I really do hope that his condition doesn't get worse.

 

7) A few have you have taken me to task about my praise of Mr. Searcy. Don't get me wrong, I love the dialogue but there is no longer any doubt how much value he brings to this football team. Once again, he will be a head coach some day. This man is PURE football.

 

8) This game appeared to be slow today in terms of the footing. Nobody looked THAT fast. Do you agree? In the Alabama game last night players on both teams were flying all over the field. Maybe it was be me.

 

9) In the credit where it is due department, Orton came around and was able to hit Woods with some truly nice passes. The TD to Hogan was also a great play.

 

10) The passes to Gray were very good, however strange, no? The guy looks like Hercules and ran out of bounds. Plus, he seemed to be alone on both of his big plays. I admit it, I didn't know that the man was on our football team. I had really no idea what was going on lol.

 

11) This defensive line reminds me of the one in which Bryce Paup had 17 1/2 sacks and was the NFL Defensive MVP. They take turns having great games and feed off of what is happening with each other. Mario was doubled all day and I think held more often than not. His fellow linemen were able to take advantage of this. How great is that?! My hope is that the Bills offer a big contract to Hughes right now. He is a modern day Bryce Paup imo.

 

12) I really like Marrone, but I am not his biggest fan in terms of being a head coach. That said, he was great today. It was his best game ever in terms of taking control and managing game and the clock, or so I think.

 

13) I am on a personal quest to be a better person. I won't go into this but I am going to regress just a bit. Watching KW knock that little obnoxious twit on his ass was a sight to behold.

 

14) Congrats my friends. We truly do deserve good days.

 

15) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Totally Agree... Thank You for your posting your Observations...

[JohnC]

But it also reflects an utter lack of sound strategic planning, and some of that falls squarely on Whaley's shoulders. He hired a coach with a ground-and-pound, ball-control offensive philosophy who must've made clear his preference for big, lumbering offensive linemen and bunch formations. Instead of arming this coach with big athletic guards and tight ends, he stockpiled speedsters like Bryce Brown and Watkins, and traded for Mike Williams. I'm just not sure what the overall strategy is - what is the "elevator speech" that Whaley gives to describe the Bills' strategy on offense? Does it mirror what Marrone would say? If not, doesn't that speak volumes about the state of OBD?

 

Marrone was part of the staff of New Orleans under a very offensive minded HC, Payton. I'm sure when DM interviewed for the job he didn't stress that his approach to the offense was a dullard approach. I agree that there is a conflict/tension between Whaley's view toward the offense and Marrone's approach. Despite what I just stated I strongly believe that Marrone will be back next year. In my opinion what this organization doesn't need is another coaching staff change. Allowing this current staff to make adjustments is better than turning it over and starting over again.

 

The bottom line is that Marrone is taking an 8-8 or at best 9-7 type team and having it in general play up to its level of talent. That is an accomplishment worth rewarding by bringing him back.

Edited December 2, 2014 by JohnC

[34-78-83]

A good offensive mind would have made Spiller a weapon. Hackett runs him up the middle.

 

But all Hackett needs is a back like Bryce Brown to fit his system.

 

It's not that simple.

And this response isn't just for you it's also for all 'madden fans' who think their game equates to real football.

The spread can't work here right now because of protection issues, and the depth of routes and release points in our passing game. You also can't run to the edge when the edge cannot be sealed.

This is also (protection) why we are seeing multiple TE's in the passing sets. It's not because they think they are outsmarting someone or misusing talent.

The run blocking needs an upgrade (some due to talent, some due to continuity of the Line itself) for any style of back to succeed right now in the offense. Has so very little to do with them not "just getting Spiller out in space".... which is a concept I would equate with "just go out hook up with that supermodel" ... Not too realistic.

[JohnC]

It's not that simple.

And this response isn't just for you it's also for all 'madden fans' who think their game equates to real football.

The spread can't work here right now because of protection issues, and the depth of routes and release points in our passing game. You also can't run to the edge when the edge cannot be sealed.

This is also (protection) why we are seeing multiple TE's in the passing sets. It's not because they think they are outsmarting someone or misusing talent.

The run blocking needs an upgrade (some due to talent, some due to continuity of the Line itself) for any style of back to succeed right now in the offense. Has so very little to do with them not "just getting Spiller out in space".... which is a concept I would equate with "just go out hook up with that supermodel" ... Not too realistic.

 

You don't think that the HC from the Eagles would better utilize his talents?

 

There is no doubt that the poor construction and talent level of our OL has a major effect on limiting the offense. When you have a special talent you should work to enhance the talent not create a system that works against it.

[Coach Tuesday]

You don't think that the HC from the Eagles would better utilize his talents?

 

There is no doubt that the poor construction and talent level of our OL has a major effect on limiting the offense. When you have a special talent you should work to enhance the talent not create a system that works against it.

 

And to add to that, the Eagles have had to shuffle through a lot of different offensive linemen this season due to injuries (as well as a QB change), and yet their offense continues to function at a relatively high level.

[34-78-83]

You don't think that the HC from the Eagles would better utilize his talents?

 

There is no doubt that the poor construction and talent level of our OL has a major effect on limiting the offense. When you have a special talent you should work to enhance the talent not create a system that works against it.

I think ON the Eagles - OF COURSE his talents would be better served. They have a mobile, fast break O-line that blocks well for the spread and hopes to get to you with their conditioning level. the Eagles HC on the Bills however would have the same tribulations as we do. And No I don't think you gear your entire plan for a guy like CJ (I am one of his biggest fans) when he has already shown to be a part time back, even as explosive as he is.

[Bill from NYC]

Coupling Whitner with Spiller is an offense that you will have to do penance for. Whitner was a failed draft pick not because he was a safety but because he was over-drafted.

My friend, if you want to lose football games a good way to do so is to draft a situational scat back with a top 10 draft pick, especially if you have QB issues. And those were pre-Pettine and Mario days.

Mr. Wilson praised this selection. He said that the team needed, "excitement."

 

This team didn't win football games with Spiller. We are still not in the playoffs as we speak, but we are doing just as well without him. And btw, let me readily admit that the Bills need an upgrade at RB. I do however hope that we don't draft one too early and focus more on Guards to fill the void of the ones we stupidly let go.

[FLFan]

i usually dont say this, nor agree with hardly anyone here, but i agree with every point you said (except 5) wtf is that song?. I would add sammy is a soft as a baby marshmellow whether hampered by injury or not. he goes down faster than tim brown ever did after a catch. i hope its injury, i would hate to think hes actually that much of a wuss. anyway great post.

You may have a serious hole in your musical education. That's "Uncle John's Band" by the Gratefull Dead. Bill is a serious fan. Most of us were too stoned to remember the lyrics, but that one is definitely a classic.