NoSaint Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 This whole thread is kind of hilarious. It's like a bunch of Vikings fans saying, "I can't believe the stupid Jags drafted Blaine Gabbert in 2011. We were so lucky to get out of there with Christian Ponder." #potcallingkettleblack #hewholivesinaglasshouseshouldntthrowstones yea, we are almost literally 1 win against the jets away from being in the same boat (wed be 4-6 and theyd be 3-7.... we already benched our QB and they are thinking about doing the same). last year they were 8-8 we were 6-10. its hard to point and laugh right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 The 2013 Draft QB class is looking pretty bad. I wonder if Manuel will still be a Bill next season if management is in a "Win now" mode. He shouldn't be. He never should have been drafted in the first round and pretty much most all of the QB's from that class suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) The 2013 Draft QB class is looking pretty bad. I wonder if Manuel will still be a Bill next season if management is in a "Win now" mode. They don't need to be in a "win now" mode to get rid of him. He was a sub-par talent who couldn't read defenses, react to the pass rush, read receivers in their routes, or complete a pass to open receivers without getting them killed. Otherwise, he is a nice guy, but I think it has nothing to do with the Bills management's time frame on winning , because it's never going to be with EJ regardless of the team's patience level. I was happy to see them finally pull the plug on an under-performing player at this position for a change, rather than endure years of ineptitude. Edited November 20, 2014 by Homey D. Clown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) It's plain as day now how bad the 2013 QB class was but fess up. We thought there were 3-4 "franchise" players to be had. (Forgot about Nassib and Barkley?) Plus we all know what people would say if the Bills hadn't drafted a QB in '13. "There go the Bills ignoring the all-important QB position again!" If the Bills were foolish to draft EJ then anyone wanting us to draft a QB in 2013 gets to wear a dunce cap too. Edited November 20, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'm still laughing at the people who wanted Geno in Buffalo Me too CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 It's plain as day now how bad the 2013 QB class was but fess up. We thought there were 3-4 "franchise" players to be had. (Forgot about Nassib and Barkley?) Plus we all know what people would say if the Bills hadn't drafted a QB in '13. "There go the Bills ignoring the all-important QB position again!" If the Bills were foolish to draft EJ then anyone wanting us to draft a QB in 2013 gets to wear a dunce cap too. yea, we all wanted a qb so bad when fitz would have been just as good if not better as he probably would have started the whole season. We could have gotten a guy like kyle long for our line or another spot. But thats hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'm not judging the Jets, or the Bills... they both had to take a QB, and what can you do but hope the one you take turns out. Geno is flaming out hard, EJ is on the backburner with slim future chances... 2015 draft will be interesting for both teams. As much as I love Sammy, I'm kinda wishing we didn't trade away our first next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Um, the 2014 qb class might be even worse. It's crazy how people get such pleasure in calling young players busts. Young players, especially Qbs, need time to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Plus we all know what people would say if the Bills hadn't drafted a QB in '13. "There go the Bills ignoring the all-important QB position again!" If the Bills were foolish to draft EJ then anyone wanting us to draft a QB in 2013 gets to wear a dunce cap too. That's been my argument throughout. Some think it was possible for the Bills to not draft a QB in 2013. I don't believe it was... a new regime coming in and saying "we are sticking with Fitz" even if they only intended to stick with him for a year would have been starting on a loser with the fans. Given where they were they had to take a punt in 2013. Personally if I was taking a punt from that class I was taking it on EJ Manuel. That was my position before that draft it is my position since that draft and remains my position. Did it make him anything like a sure thing to be a franchise QB? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Um, the 2014 qb class might be even worse. It's crazy how people get such pleasure in calling young players busts. Young players, especially Qbs, need time to develop. It might be, but if you don't have a QB *right now* the answer seems to draft. As far as young players, I'm on the develop EJ train (give him a year or two longer), but it's a win now league, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Bills look to improve the QB spot beyond KO and EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 This whole thread is kind of hilarious. It's like a bunch of Vikings fans saying, "I can't believe the stupid Jags drafted Blaine Gabbert in 2011. We were so lucky to get out of there with Christian Ponder." #potcallingkettleblack #hewholivesinaglasshouseshouldntthrowstones Is this thread funnier than the love fest for Da'Rick Rogers? How's that one working out? And if Chip Kelly drafted EJ, we won't be having this discussion. And for as bad as Gabbert was, one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL just traded for him. Shocking, that elite franchises like the Bills, Jets, & Jags struggle to develop young Qbs. Shocking! It might be, but if you don't have a QB *right now* the answer seems to draft. As far as young players, I'm on the develop EJ train (give him a year or two longer), but it's a win now league, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Bills look to improve the QB spot beyond KO and EJ. Agreed but if you draft a guy, you should have a better plan. Orton should have been a veteran mentor from the start (Kolb was the plan originally). You should have a veteran NFL OC and a separate qb coach (The fact that Hackett did both is a joke). And finally, once you commit to the guy, you live with his ups and downs. Odds are EJ won't develop into an elite guy because most guys don't. But our development of him is a joke. And trusting Nate Hackett to develop him was an even bigger joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Is this thread funnier than the love fest for Da'Rick Rogers? How's that one working out? And if Chip Kelly drafted EJ, we won't be having this discussion. And for as bad as Gabbert was, one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL just traded for him. Shocking, that elite franchises like the Bills, Jets, & Jags struggle to develop young Qbs. Shocking! Agreed but if you draft a guy, you should have a better plan. Orton should have been a veteran mentor from the start (Kolb was the plan originally). You should have a veteran NFL OC and a separate qb coach (The fact that Hackett did both is a joke). And finally, once you commit to the guy, you live with his ups and downs. Odds are EJ won't develop into an elite guy because most guys don't. But our development of him is a joke. And trusting Nate Hackett to develop him was an even bigger joke. This is the biggest crime, because as you said, we had Kolb (which was a good move, for what was available, but again, just didn't work out).... The fact that we have a rookie OC, and he was coaching the QB at the same time, and frankly he kinda sucks, all combines for ruining EJ's development. Put EJ (or Geno for that matter) on a squad with really good development, and you might see a different player. I've always been of the opinion that there's very few QBs who will be good no matter what team they're on, everyone else depends on a coaching staff to develop into a decent player. EJ is one of those guys who would be good with the right coaching, and is mediocre with coaching on the level of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I know its like determining the valedictorian of summer school, but I have never seen EJ play the way Geno has at times. Closest was Houston, but that game was winnable at 2 minute warning. Geno's basement is so low he found the gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I know its like determining the valedictorian of summer school, but I have never seen EJ play the way Geno has at times. Closest was Houston, but that game was winnable at 2 minute warning. Geno's basement is so low he found the gold. Is it that bad or is fans' expectations completely whacked? The Qbs from this year's class look bad. Next years will too. Guys like Luck and Wilson are outliners. It's funny how fans demand greatness at the hardest position in sports at age 22. How many of is were great at our jobs at 22? And I'm thinking there is a wee but more pressure on a NFL qb. But since it's so cool, I call bust on a 1st round qb in this years draft! Bust! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Agreed but if you draft a guy, you should have a better plan. Orton should have been a veteran mentor from the start (Kolb was the plan originally). You should have a veteran NFL OC and a separate qb coach (The fact that Hackett did both is a joke). And finally, once you commit to the guy, you live with his ups and downs. Odds are EJ won't develop into an elite guy because most guys don't. But our development of him is a joke. And trusting Nate Hackett to develop him was an even bigger joke. plus he had a second rookie qb planned to be on the 53 once they cut TJax. i dont know that EJ would be the guy somewhere else, but when you look at what happened it makes sense he hasnt been here. I know its like determining the valedictorian of summer school, but I have never seen EJ play the way Geno has at times. Closest was Houston, but that game was winnable at 2 minute warning. Geno's basement is so low he found the gold. how much of that is coaching philosophy? i get the impression that rex told Geno to go play and see what happens (higher highs, lower lows) while we tried to keep EJ safe and reliable (steady - less flash good or bad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Is this thread funnier than the love fest for Da'Rick Rogers? How's that one working out? And if Chip Kelly drafted EJ, we won't be having this discussion. And for as bad as Gabbert was, one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL just traded for him. Shocking, that elite franchises like the Bills, Jets, & Jags struggle to develop young Qbs. Shocking Where we differ is that I liked (and still do) "the types of player that Da'Rick or Jasper are."You can go back through those 100 pages and see how many times that is referenced. The last few spots on my roster wouldn't be used on someone like Larry Dean. I try to hit home runs and the worst case scenario is you miss out on a Larry Dean. Those guys are a dime a dozen. In terms of EJ, it's the player. He has slow eyes and is inaccurate. Those are not things that can be overcome. I have never seen a QB get more accurate. His flaws are fatal and he was a reach to begin with. Not surprisingly it took them 14 games to realize that he is not the answer. I would be SHOCKED if they approached next year with him at the top of the depth chart. I like EJ the person but he isn't a good QB. Is it that bad or is fans' expectations completely whacked? The Qbs from this year's class look bad. Next years will too. Guys like Luck and Wilson are outliners. It's funny how fans demand greatness at the hardest position in sports at age 22. How many of is were great at our jobs at 22? And I'm thinking there is a wee but more pressure on a NFL qb. But since it's so cool, I call bust on a 1st round qb in this years draft! Bust! I don't disagree that it's hard to find a QB. If you look at the last 10 1st rounders or whatever I wonder what % are franchise guys? I bet that it is less than 1/2. Update: I went back and looked at all of the 1st round QBs since 2010. Here it is: 2014: Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater 2013: EJ 2012: Luck, RG III, Tannehill 2011: Cam, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder 2010: Bradford, Tebow Edited November 20, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterthegator Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Geno Smith put up numbers that are hard to achieve on video games. He was thrown into a bad spot and was clearly not ready. I still think he is a better athlete than EJ. I certainly don't think he is smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I know its like determining the valedictorian of summer school, but I have never seen EJ play the way Geno has at times. Closest was Houston, but that game was winnable at 2 minute warning. Geno's basement is so low he found the gold. You must have missed the Tampa game in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Whats literally crazy is the NY Jets had the proper formula to develop a young QB when they drafted Mark Sanchez with a very strong run game, play great defense. Then tried to accelerate the QB development process by making him throw more, and more as games went on. They started out his rookie year by passing only 393 times vs 607 rushing attempts, and it was freaking working. The team went to the AFC Championship game that year, and basically lost because they couldn't run the ball well enough. Then the next year they started to pass more, run less and still has success by getting to the AFC Championship game again 525 attempts passing vs 534 attempts rushing with LT at RB. Again they lost because that game because they didn't even try and dance with what brought them, as they basically ignored the run game. Meanwhile the Steelers pounded the rock on them to the tune of 43 attempts for 166 yards. The Jets have had a very bad offense since 2010 mostly because they have no decent WR's, as their leading receiver in 2011 was the TE Dustin Keller, and he was injured almost all of 2012. Then they let him leave in 2013. The Jets haven't had a 1000 yard receiver since 2007. Plus, since getting to the last championship game they have failed to build a dedicated run attack. The Jets had a strong identity when they drafted Sanchez, and lost it along the way under Rex Ryan, and I know Jets fans hate GM John Idzik but the guy did bring in Eric Decker & Percy Harvin in an attempt to bolster their passing game. One of the problems with that is Harvin has never even had a 1000 yard receiving season, and want to know how many times he has caught a ball for more then 20 yards in his career? Never! The 2014 Jets have a good RB corps, and just don't utilize them properly (to our gain). Chris Ivory is a very tough to bring down RB who averages 4.5 YPC , and they simply don't use him enough. Chris Johnson is also in the backfield gaining about 4.2 YPC, and they don't use him enough either. Its great that the Jets OC is an idiot worse then Hackett. Plus, the defense has gone from great to bad under Ryan. So, in conclusion the drafted a QB #5 overall in 2009, and almost ruined him in New York Jauron style. Then last year drafted another QB in the 2nd round, and basically ruined him. Now after two years are giving up on him. Good news for Bills fans the Jets are even more dysfunctional then the Bills because they somehow managed to find a way to keep their bad coaches. Rex Ryan should have been fired after the 2011 season, and again after 2012 season, and again after the 2013 season. Good thing for us the Jets owner loves the guy Even with his Mark Sanchez tattoo on his arm. Then some Bills have suggested Rex Ryan as the Bills next HC P.S. The Jets will no doubt draft another QB this year. Lets hope they keep the same coaching staff, and ruin him too. Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota with the #3 overall. PPS. the story on EJ isn't done quite yet. Lets see what he can do with some real NFL coaches next year. The current coaches from the college ranks need to go back to what they were mediocre at....because they are bad at the NFL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Is this thread funnier than the love fest for Da'Rick Rogers? How's that one working out? And if Chip Kelly drafted EJ, we won't be having this discussion. And for as bad as Gabbert was, one of the best offensive coaches in the NFL just traded for him. Shocking, that elite franchises like the Bills, Jets, & Jags struggle to develop young Qbs. Shocking! Agreed but if you draft a guy, you should have a better plan. Orton should have been a veteran mentor from the start (Kolb was the plan originally). You should have a veteran NFL OC and a separate qb coach (The fact that Hackett did both is a joke). And finally, once you commit to the guy, you live with his ups and downs. Odds are EJ won't develop into an elite guy because most guys don't. But our development of him is a joke. And trusting Nate Hackett to develop him was an even bigger joke. Chip Kelly made Sanchise look sooooo good. Thank god you're back. One of the best offensive coaches in the league traded for Gabbert? I didn't realize the 18th ranked offense is "one of the best." Edited November 20, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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