Kyle Orton Haters

[section122]

Bills fans expectations of QB play have morphed into the unrealistic realm. We expect our QB to be perfect. No incompletions, no turnovers, no flaws of any kind, plus they have to win games single-handedly. And when we do have a guy who throws almost 300yds a game, makes thows downfield, completes 70% and has two last-second game-winning drives we don't even notice because we are too obsessed with his flaws. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad and typical.

 

I guarantee if Orton was doing this elsewhere we'd all be pissed the Bills were "too stupid" to sign this veteran stud. But because he's our QB he sucks.

17,22, and 17 points. 3 ints and 2 fumbles in 3 games. I can play the stats without supporting facts too. Orton doesn't suck but he ain't great either.

[DirtDart]

I've been seeing/hearing a lot of Kyle Orton hating, both on this forum and on WGR, and I'm curious as to where all of the hate is coming from. Over the past three weeks, Orton has averaged 297 yards, 1.66 TDs, and 1 INT per game. If you extrapolate his numbers over an entire 16 game season, he would finish with 4,750 yards, 27 TDs and 16 INT.

 

So, with that being said, I don't get how anyone can say that he's even been average. Honestly, Orton has performed like a borderline top 10 QB over the past 3 weeks, and he's done this while being with the team for less than 2 months.

 

Over the past three weeks, Orton has put up those numbers with terrible o-line play, and no running game to speak of. And then to top it off, he's done all of this against three top 10 pass defenses (based on YPG, 2 top 10 defenses if you go by passer rating against). Also, in regard to his turnovers, he's on pace for 16 INTs. Romo, Luck, both Mannings, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Rivers and Brees have all had 18+ INT seasons. So, does that mean that they're all average QBs?

 

Oh, and not to mention, the Bills are 2-1 under Orton, and in both games he played some of his best football when it mattered the most to lead the Bills to wins. So, lets hear it, why should I be underwhelmed with Orton's performances over the past three weeks?

Well if it weren't for Dan Carpenters leg, Orton would be 1-2. We beat the Vikings yesterday.........They are a bigger mess than we are. There is no way we survive 4 turnovers against a better team.

[JC2002]

But that's kinda been Orton's career. I don't know why people are surprised by it. There's a reason guys like him and Fitz play on a lot of teams. They are top tier backups who you hope don't start long periods for you because you're limited.

 

But that hasnt been ortons career I dont know why you are even tossing that out there . He has never been a big turnover or sack guy the fact is that that is more a result of the two things a poor Oline and the fact that the running game has failed so we have to lean on the pas more which just puts more pressure on the Oline .

 

Orton was on the Bears and was traded for Cutler

 

He was never the guy in Denver and he asked for a release late in the season(he was gonna be a free agent anyway) after several qbs went down around the league

 

he played well for the Chiefs in a even crazier situation(playoff race) that we have seen the past few weeks but they had big money already on the table in cassell

 

he signed with the Cowboys as the highest paid backup in the league and even the cowboys acknowledged that he could start around the league thats why they paid him as much as they did

 

We signed him for how much ? How much did Fitz sign with the texans for ?

[quinnearlysghost88]

Did you just make up a thing? I don't hear anyone hating kyle orton. he is what he is.

[Snorom]

Orton is a better version of Fitz so far

[TDO'Kearney]

I've been seeing/hearing a lot of Kyle Orton hating, both on this forum and on WGR, and I'm curious as to where all of the hate is coming from. Over the past three weeks, Orton has averaged 297 yards, 1.66 TDs, and 1 INT per game. If you extrapolate his numbers over an entire 16 game season, he would finish with 4,750 yards, 27 TDs and 16 INT.

 

So, with that being said, I don't get how anyone can say that he's even been average. Honestly, Orton has performed like a borderline top 10 QB over the past 3 weeks, and he's done this while being with the team for less than 2 months.

 

Over the past three weeks, Orton has put up those numbers with terrible o-line play, and no running game to speak of. And then to top it off, he's done all of this against three top 10 pass defenses (based on YPG, 2 top 10 defenses if you go by passer rating against). Also, in regard to his turnovers, he's on pace for 16 INTs. Romo, Luck, both Mannings, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Rivers and Brees have all had 18+ INT seasons. So, does that mean that they're all average QBs?

 

Oh, and not to mention, the Bills are 2-1 under Orton, and in both games he played some of his best football when it mattered the most to lead the Bills to wins. So, lets hear it, why should I be underwhelmed with Orton's performances over the past three weeks?

 

I like Orton just fine, if he could just get rid of the habit of throwing one grievous interception per game.

[C.Biscuit97]

Bills fans expectations of QB play have morphed into the unrealistic realm. We expect our QB to be perfect. No incompletions, no turnovers, no flaws of any kind, plus they have to win games single-handedly. And when we do have a guy who throws almost 300yds a game, makes thows downfield, completes 70% and has two last-second game-winning drives we don't even notice because we are too obsessed with his flaws. It would be hilarious if it weren't so sad and typical.

 

I guarantee if Orton was doing this elsewhere we'd all be pissed the Bills were "too stupid" to sign this veteran stud. But because he's our QB he sucks.

 

Promo, I used to say the same thing about Fitz to defend him. Our standards need to be higher. Who really cares about yardage? We scored 1 td against Detroit. We barely scored 2 against Minnesota. Who cares about yards if you're handing the other team points with turnovers or turning the ball over in the red zone?

 

Why are you a hater because you want more? I generally agree fans are irrational about QBs. That's why I am so patient with EJ. But the reason we switched to Orton was to see a big improvement.

 

Again, it's not all on him. I think our OC is terrible and our oline has regressed. That's on the coaches. But to be happy with the current results is fool hardy. This team is playoff caliber except on offense right now.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

17,22, and 17 points. 3 ints and 2 fumbles in 3 games. I can play the stats without supporting facts too. Orton doesn't suck but he ain't great either.

2-1 as a starter, Jack. Aren't you always the guy saying W's tell the tale?

[JC2002]

Agree about the turnovers from Orton. Way too many and it is definitely hurting us. Without those, yesterday would not have been close and we may have had a shot against NE. Unfortunately though, he is not the only one that is turning the ball over. Too many fumbles by WR's and C.J. fumbled against NE as well. If this team can eliminate the turnovers, then the offense will look much better. I'll take the W's, and I do agree that Orton is a better option than E.J. right now, but if we are to stand a chance to make the playoffs, we have got to stop turning the ball over.

 

Again people who keep playing the if only game are simply wrong its football and thats not the way it works

 

Sammy dropped a 1st down pass at the 2 yard line and then we fumbled on 3rd down the very next play .

 

If only sammy doesn't drop that pass we would've scored and would have had a early lead and CJ and Fred wouldn't have been hurt because wouldn't have call the same plays with us being ahead

 

Do you see why you cant assume one thing would have led to another ,

 

Turnovers are bad especially in football but then again NOTHING has really worked out the way we thought when Orton took over and now the offense is basically 100% reliant on Orton throwing for nearly 300 yard every game which is not something you would expect of someone7 weeks off the street

[C.Biscuit97]

But that hasnt been ortons career I dont know why you are even tossing that out there . He has never been a big turnover or sack guy the fact is that that is more a result of the two things a poor Oline and the fact that the running game has failed so we have to lean on the pas more which just puts more pressure on the Oline .

 

Orton was on the Bears and was traded for Cutler

 

He was never the guy in Denver and he asked for a release late in the season(he was gonna be a free agent anyway) after several qbs went down around the league

 

he played well for the Chiefs in a even crazier situation(playoff race) that we have seen the past few weeks but they had big money already on the table in cassell

 

he signed with the Cowboys as the highest paid backup in the league and even the cowboys acknowledged that he could start around the league thats why they paid him as much as they did

 

We signed him for how much ? How much did Fitz sign with the texans for ?

 

He has 62 ints and 34 fumbles in 78 games. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

[dubs]

The Mob is Fickle, as they say. Just keep in mind that many of the same people criticizing Orton are the same folks that wanted to give Jeff Tuel the start.

 

As it stands, Orton is the best QB we've had here since the beginning of the Bledsoe era and maybe the Flutie days. It's not a high bar, but it's the truth.

[C.Biscuit97]

Again people who keep playing the if only game are simply wrong its football and thats not the way it works

 

Sammy dropped a 1st down pass at the 2 yard line and then we fumbled on 3rd down the very next play .

 

If only sammy doesn't drop that pass we would've scored and would have had a early lead and CJ and Fred wouldn't have been hurt because wouldn't have call the same plays with us being ahead

 

Do you see why you cant assume one thing would have led to another ,

 

Turnovers are bad especially in football but then again NOTHING has really worked out the way we thought when Orton took over and now the offense is basically 100% reliant on Orton throwing for nearly 300 yard every game which is not something you would expect of someone7 weeks off the street

 

Couldn't we say the same thing about EJ in Houston with the early drops?

 

Why are we making excuses for an 8th year QB? Isn't that the reason we switched? Is it wrong to want more than 17 points a game? Again, it's not all on Orton but I thought we were going to see a bigger upgrade.

[xsoldier54]

Wow just wow. If this had said EJ haters than Bills fans I would agree with you. Fans?!?! Can you name one person on this board that is a bigger EJ fan than Bills fan bc I can name several people that hate EJ enough to want him to fail rather than see the Bills win with him.

 

 

 

Yes Yes Yes. Orton has better passing totals. Takes more sacks and has more turnovers. I really think that EJ could've mustered the 17,22, and 17 points that Orton has put up. A lot of things have gotten worse with Orton taking over including the run game and pass pro. For a veteran who people say can read and diagnose a defense better than EJ I just don't see it. What I do see is a QB who takes more chances. I see one who isn't afraid to let it rip. I don't see better results though. Very happy to be 2-1 over the last few games. Even happier that EJ looks to be trying to learn while sitting. Not convinced Orton is anything other than a stop gap incapable of getting the Bills where we want them to be. I hope he leads them to a winning record, I hope we make the playoffs, then I hope next year the light switch has gone on for EJ or the Bills have a plan for the future. Hell I won't even mind being completely wrong about this and have Orton make a Gannon like resurgence. I just can't say that Orton is the reason the Bills have won or that he has even played well.

Do you really believe that E.J. at this point is capable of leading either of those two fourth quarter drives that led to those two wins? If so, then you must not have been watching him in weeks 3 and 4 because he was absolutely abysmal. Is Orton perfect? Absolutely not, but if you believe that the Bills win against either Detroit or Minnesota with Manuel at QB, then you are delusional. It's Orton's experience and calm demeanor, not to mention the throws that he has made that enable those two wins. Yes he has his flaws, but he is absolutely 100% head and shoulders a better option than E.J. Manuel at this point.

[Dorkington]

I like Orton just fine, if he could just get rid of the habit of throwing one grievous interception per game.

 

I'll take an INT a game, as long as there are 2+TDs per game, and he continues to complete 68% of his passes, many of them downfield.

 

My bigger beef is with fumbles, but a big part of that is that he's a pocket/downfield passer playing behind a crappy line, and with an unproductive running game.

 

Put Orton behind a solid line, and I feel some of the turnovers don't happen.

 

Why are we making excuses for an 8th year QB? Isn't that the reason we switched? Is it wrong to want more than 17 points a game? Again, it's not all on Orton but I thought we were going to see a bigger upgrade.

 

I believe EJ would be better with a better Oline, and a more consistent running game, just as I think Orton would be better as well. Orton, though, is a better passing QB at the moment, and with our weaknesses, that's what we need.

[C.Biscuit97]

The Mob is Fickle, as they say. Just keep in mind that many of the same people criticizing Orton are the same folks that wanted to give Jeff Tuel the start.

 

As it stands, Orton is the best QB we've had here since the beginning of the Bledsoe era and maybe the Flutie days. It's not a high bar, but it's the truth.

 

Haha. I never wanted Tuel to start. And are we really sure Orton is better than Fitz, a guy who most wanted gone? Because I'm not.

 

All will be fine if we make the playoffs. But if we don't, there will be some major questions to answer.

[section122]

2-1 as a starter, Jack. Aren't you always the guy saying W's tell the tale?

I'm happy to get the w's for sure. I just am not impressed by Orton. I am very happy the Bills are 4-3 right now. I just think that EJ could've led the team to the same 2-1 record. This team is winning because of the defense not because of the QB change. Orton is getting the wins and I won't fault him for that (how could I?). Orton also is showing what I already presumed, that he is very limited and will throw ints. If the team keeps winning I will keep celebrating. I don't see Orton as anything other that a stop gap QB (not that there is anything wrong with that). I can't put him on a pedestal as even a better than average QB.

 

I hate to take this stance because I don't want it to come off as bashing the Bills for Orton playing. I'm not and don't want to. I just hope that either EJ has the light go off or there are other plans for next year than Kyle Orton. HEckas I 've said today as well, I'd be just as happy with Orton lighting it up. I would like to win because of the QB not in spite of him.

[GunnerBill]

I also don't think any of the Orton supporters here are annointing him as the starter beyond this season are they? He is doing okay, I don't think EJ leads us down to win that one yesterday as much as I like the kid, Orton did when everything was against him. 4th and 20.... ball game, possibly season and maybe, ultimately, the HC's job on the line and he fires it 22 yards between two defenders to his tight end. That was some impressive composure and some impressive accuracy.

 

If I am Doug Whaley I am hoping Orton is enough to at least get us to 9-7, praying that we make the play-offs and then I am working on my options at Quarterback for 2015. If Orton saves this season that is a job well done, but he has to play better than this to prove himself the starter even in the medium term (ie. the next 2 years beyond this season).

[section122]

The Mob is Fickle, as they say. Just keep in mind that many of the same people criticizing Orton are the same folks that wanted to give Jeff Tuel the start.

 

As it stands, Orton is the best QB we've had here since the beginning of the Bledsoe era and maybe the Flutie days. It's not a high bar, but it's the truth.

To the bolded:

 

Absolutely not. Never anywhere. Not on here, not in conversation with my friends, never.

[buffalopdc]

"Our passing game has also been great since the switch. Not perfect, because of the O-line and a handful of Orton mistakes, but we have the best passing offense right now since Kelly."

 

 

You forgot Drew Bledsoe era as our passing was pretty good for a year then as well. Flutie also had a good year passing. He is no Kelly.

[C.Biscuit97]

Do you really believe that E.J. at this point is capable of leading either of those two fourth quarter drives that led to those two wins? If so, then you must not have been watching him in weeks 3 and 4 because he was absolutely abysmal. Is Orton perfect? Absolutely not, but if you believe that the Bills win against either Detroit or Minnesota with Manuel at QB, then you are delusional. It's Orton's experience and calm demeanor, not to mention the throws that he has made that enable those two wins. Yes he has his flaws, but he is absolutely 100% head and shoulders a better option than E.J. Manuel at this point.

 

Who knows this? Do I think EJ could have scored 17 points? Sure. I know he has 3 game winning drives in 14 starts and would have had another one if SJ and Chandler didn't fumble against ATL.

 

For the switch to be justified, I want to see better. Why is that wrong?

[papazoid]

kyle orton is mediocre (ranked 16th is passer rating).

 

which is a huge improvement over the awful EJ (ranked 30th in passer rating).

 

 

having said that, for a veteran, orton makes a lot of mental mistakes that lead to big negative plays (sacks, fumbles), as evidenced by his poor QBR rating of rank 28th (EJ was 32nd). it's been awhile since ive seen a QB under pressure, go down so easily as compared to other qb's.

 

 

 

[section122]

I also don't think any of the Orton supporters here are annointing him as the starter beyond this season are they? He is doing okay, I don't think EJ leads us down to win that one yesterday as much as I like the kid, Orton did when everything was against him. 4th and 20.... ball game, possibly season and maybe, ultimately, the HC's job on the line and he fires it 22 yards between two defenders to his tight end. That was some impressive composure and some impressive accuracy.

 

If I am Doug Whaley I am hoping Orton is enough to at least get us to 9-7, praying that we make the play-offs and then I am working on my options at Quarterback for 2015. If Orton saves this season that is a job well done, but he has to play better than this to prove himself the starter even in the medium term (ie. the next 2 years beyond this season).

Although I am not a "supporter" (he is the QB of the Bills so I am rooting for his success) I agree with everything in this post. Including the excellent conversion on 4th down but mostly with the second paragraph

[xsoldier54]

Again people who keep playing the if only game are simply wrong its football and thats not the way it works

 

Sammy dropped a 1st down pass at the 2 yard line and then we fumbled on 3rd down the very next play .

 

If only sammy doesn't drop that pass we would've scored and would have had a early lead and CJ and Fred wouldn't have been hurt because wouldn't have call the same plays with us being ahead

 

Do you see why you cant assume one thing would have led to another ,

 

Turnovers are bad especially in football but then again NOTHING has really worked out the way we thought when Orton took over and now the offense is basically 100% reliant on Orton throwing for nearly 300 yard every game which is not something you would expect of someone7 weeks off the street

I have no idea what your response means. What I said was that turnovers are bad and that we need to eliminate them. Isn't that the same thing that you said? The rest of what you said about the offense being 100% reliant on Orton throwing for 300 yards is also related to turnovers. The reason that they threw the ball so much in those games is because they turned the ball over and fell behind. Eliminate the turnovers and you probably do not fall behind and hence you can have a more balanced attack offensively. My point is that the Bills need to cut down on the turnovers in order to have a better chance of winning games. I don't think that can be disputed, it's a pretty basic tenet of playing good football.

[GunnerBill]

The drive in Detroit I think EJ could have done yes. An inaccurate pass pulled in by a circus catch from Sammy. Yesterday? Not so much. That was a proper Quarterback inspired game winning drive. Yes Chandler, Hogan and Sammy helped out, but Orton put some throws on the money.

[C.Biscuit97]

kyle orton is mediocre (ranked 16th is passer rating).

 

which is a huge improvement over the awful EJ (ranked 30th in passer rating).

 

 

having said that, for a veteran, orton makes a lot of mental mistakes that lead to big negative plays (sacks, fumbles), as evidenced by his poor QBR rating of rank 28th (EJ was 32nd). it's been awhile since ive seen a QB under pressure, go down so easily as compared to other qb's.

 

Our running game has been awful since the switch. Manuel was not a great runner yet but he was a threat that made defenses pay attention too.

 

And I put this more on Hackett than Orton.

 

The drive in Detroit I think EJ could have done yes. An inaccurate pass pulled in by a circus catch from Sammy. Yesterday? Not so much. That was a proper Quarterback inspired game winning drive. Yes Chandler, Hogan and Sammy helped out, but Orton put some throws on the money.

 

He made some great throws on that drive. We also shouldn't need that drive to beat a bad Minny team. The defense won the game.

[jr1]

Kyle Orton has sampled more snatch than Wilt Chamberlain

[bigK14094]

I found the game announcers commentary on Orton to be insightful. One was a former teammate of Orton's, and he said he didn't recognize the guy on the sideline. Orton has grown up and matured....and is leading a flawed offense with the skills of a veteran. Now, I have been a season ticket holder for 40 years, and have seen them all. I can tell you the number one qualification of an NFL QB is the arm strength and accuracy. EJ doesn't have what it takes, set aside all the other great qualities. I have not seen a professional down the middle throw from EJ in the two years I have watched him...not an NFL ready arm. Orton, on the other hand, is short on running capability/escapability.....but, he can chuck the rock in there, short and long. The stats show it....EJ was missing wide open receivers, and Marrone faced an insurection from the wr's....he had to make the change. I think the Bills were lucky to get Orton, and might end up north of .500 for the first time in many years. Not predicting playoffs here, but saying the right QB is running the ship/ I think we will see Orton for a couple of years...until another QB shows up. (EJ a bust in my view) As for the Fitz comparisons, Orton is less athletic than Fitz, who could scramble pretty well you might recall. but, Orton has a better arm, especially on long throws, and is my preference when selecting between the two veterans.

[GunnerBill]

He made some great throws on that drive. We also shouldn't need that drive to beat a bad Minny team. The defense won the game.

 

You don't need to tell me that. I am higher on our D than I think anyone on this board. The O is still the problem, Orton, EJ or whoever else is back there.

[xsoldier54]

Who knows this? Do I think EJ could have scored 17 points? Sure. I know he has 3 game winning drives in 14 starts and would have had another one if SJ and Chandler didn't fumble against ATL.

 

For the switch to be justified, I want to see better. Why is that wrong?

Because E.J. has regressed and he was absolutely horrible the last three games that he played. He needed to sit down for the Bills to have any chance of winning this year. We all want to see better, but without the switch, I am convinced we would be 2-5 right now instead of 4-3. It is just my opinion based on watching E.J. play this year and watching Orton play. Yes we have turned the ball over too much and taken more sacks, but I believe that it is Orton's veteran presence that enabled those two wins. I absolutely do not believe we win against either Detroit or Minnesota with E.J. at QB.

 

I found the game announcers commentary on Orton to be insightful. One was a former teammate of Orton's, and he said he didn't recognize the guy on the sideline. Orton has grown up and matured....and is leading a flawed offense with the skills of a veteran. Now, I have been a season ticket holder for 40 years, and have seen them all. I can tell you the number one qualification of an NFL QB is the arm strength and accuracy. EJ doesn't have what it takes, set aside all the other great qualities. I have not seen a professional down the middle throw from EJ in the two years I have watched him...not an NFL ready arm. Orton, on the other hand, is short on running capability/escapability.....but, he can chuck the rock in there, short and long. The stats show it....EJ was missing wide open receivers, and Marrone faced an insurection from the wr's....he had to make the change. I think the Bills were lucky to get Orton, and might end up north of .500 for the first time in many years. Not predicting playoffs here, but saying the right QB is running the ship/ I think we will see Orton for a couple of years...until another QB shows up. (EJ a bust in my view) As for the Fitz comparisons, Orton is less athletic than Fitz, who could scramble pretty well you might recall. but, Orton has a better arm, especially on long throws, and is my preference when selecting between the two veterans.

This. :thumbsup:

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Because E.J. has regressed and he was absolutely horrible the last three games that he played. He needed to sit down for the Bills to have any chance of winning this year. We all want to see better, but without the switch, I am convinced we would be 2-5 right now instead of 4-3. It is just my opinion based on watching E.J. play this year and watching Orton play. Yes we have turned the ball over too much and taken more sacks, but I believe that it is Orton's veteran presence that enabled those two wins. I absolutely do not believe we win against either Detroit or Minnesota with E.J. at QB.

He will only improve with the turnovers as has been shown by his career record of being above average at protecting the ball. Not having preseason is likely reason for turnovers so far... and lack of protection. The guy has had 88,94 and 96 passer ratings and a 2-1 record. The change is proving to be justified!

[thewildrabbit]

Our running game has been awful since the switch. Manuel was not a great runner yet but he was a threat that made defenses pay attention too.

 

And I put this more on Hackett than Orton.

It hasn't been since the switch, as Hackett had EJ come out throwing at Houston. 40+ passes vs 20 rushes and he tried to get EJ killed. I think Hackett is in over his head trying to develop a rookie QB for the NFL, and its a good thing the Bills signed a vet QB with enough smarts to change plays out of the crap Hackett called.

 

Even this game only 19 rushes with the Bills averaging 6.2 yards per carry vs 43 passes again. Granted both the starting RB's were injured, and out. Boobie looked very winded at times, so I can't really fault Hackett that much.

 

Still 3 first downs rushing, 17 first downs passing, and this type of scheme with this bad O line is an unsustainable way to win games. Time to see if Bryce Brown was worth a 4th round pick.

 

About the only good thing is that Boobie @ 6'1'' 233 lbs is about the perfect type of RB to fit Hackett's 70% up the middle running attack

[bobobonators]

Great post. Everyone is overlooking how the offense has completely changed with Orton.

 

Here's the pass vs run ratio per game:

 

Game 1 - 22 pass, 33 rush

Game 2 - 26 pass, 33 rush

Game 3 - 39 pass, 22 rush

Game 4 - 44 pass, 23 rush

Game 5 - 43 pass, 22 rush

Game 6 - 38 pass, 23 rush

Game 7 - 43 pass, 19 rush

 

So, why go that way? Well, quite frankly, it's because the coaches realized how ****ty our oline is, and with EJ's limitations they can't pass the ball a ton with him.

 

Here's how the rush yards per game breaks down:

 

Game 1 - 5.85 YPC

Game 2 - 3.42 YPC

Game 3 - 3.95 YPC

Game 4 - 4.17 YPC

Game 5 - 2.22 YPC

Game 6 - 2.95 YPC

Game 7 - 6.21 YPC

 

Quite frankly, EJ doesn't do well if we have less than 4 YPC and we have to throw a bunch. Even at 4 YPC (Houston), when the game is on the line, he can't win it. The coaching staff recognized that and made the change to Orton, who can sling the ball when the running game isn't working.

 

Today was our best YPC day due to Spiller's long run.

 

I think the coaching staff right now is trying to make up for the deficiency running the ball by having Kyle sling it. I think it's a solid strategy and I have to think they will focus on keeping Orton this offseason while bolstering the OL and resigning our D guys. If they do that, we could have a damn good team next year. And we should stay in contention this year.

 

Good post. Further:

 

Something else that is critically important to not overlook: Orton gives a chance to win without an effective running game.

 

Against the Vikings we had a rushing total of 118yds (of which almost half came on a single run by spiller – 53yds). Not consistently effective. Win.

 

Against the Pats we had 68yds total rushing – pathetic. We were within 1 score of the Pats late in the 4^th quarter. Loss.

 

Against the Lions we had 49yds total rushing – pathetic. Win.

 

 

 

With EJ:

 

Against the Texans we had 96 total rushing yards. Not effective. Loss.

 

Against the Chargers we had 87 total rushing yards. Not effective. Loss.

 

Against the Dolphins we had 113 total rushing yards. Not awesome b/c CJ had a big run this game too for 47yds so we weren’t consistently running the ball well. Win

 

Against the Bears we had 193 rushing yards. Good day rushing. Win

 

Going back to last year, in games where EJ played and we didn’t run for 100yds:

 

Bills/Steelers – Loss (destroyed)

Bills/Jets – Win

Bills/Bucs – Loss (destroyed)

 

And then there were games where we rushed for almost 200yds and STILL lost (like against the Falcons).

 

So based on my observation: EJ is 1-4 in games where we don’t rush for at least 100yds. In limited play, Orton is 1-1. Obviously a very limited sample for Orton, but something to keep an eye on going forward.

 

What I can say is this: Orton is not getting HALF the running help Bills QB’s got last season. It was disheartening going back over the games last season b/c there were 4-5 games where we rushed near or OVER 200yds in a game. God we were so good at running and now look at us.

[BuffOrange]

"Our passing game has also been great since the switch. Not perfect, because of the O-line and a handful of Orton mistakes, but we have the best passing offense right now since Kelly."

 

 

You forgot Drew Bledsoe era as our passing was pretty good for a year then as well. Flutie also had a good year passing. He is no Kelly.

 

It was only a half year. Except for the snow game vs Miami the offense was putrid in the 2nd half of that romanticized 2002 season.

Edited October 20, 2014 by BuffOrange

[JC2002]

Couldn't we say the same thing about EJ in Houston with the early drops?

 

Why are we making excuses for an 8th year QB? Isn't that the reason we switched? Is it wrong to want more than 17 points a game? Again, it's not all on Orton but I thought we were going to see a bigger upgrade.

 

My point was not about excuses it was about the reality of the situation that some of you are having a hard time adjusting too.

 

You can play would've could've should've so yes while we could say the same thing about EJ and the early drops my point was that you cant play that game because it goes on forever with that many moving pieces . the assumption if A doesn't happen then B is guaranteed to happen in football is wrong .

 

We made the switch because we didnt have NFL caliber QB play to start the season and the entire league knew it . he is a bigger upgrade nobody in the league believes that its not except for maybe a handful of people on this board who simply refuse to acknowledge it .

 

This is below is your clear proof of a upgrade and it has been since day one but again you guys are so intent on nitpicking individual stats that you cant see the other areas in which he has been huge upgrade .

 

He’s tough,” Chandler said. “He’s a guy who stands back there, not afraid to stand in there, not afraid to make throws into tight windows, trusting guys to make plays. We made some great plays as receivers, but you have to make those throws to give us those chances and it’s been a lot of fun and we hope it continues.”

 

If it does, it won’t only be because of what Orton does during the game. It also will be the product of what he does during the preparation.

 

“We’ve got young guys out there at receiver,” Chandler said. “All week, he’s able to help them see the things that he’s seeing. He’s helping them run routes the way he wants, so everybody’s on the same page. And his calming influence is good. He’s seen a lot of things in this league, and we’re able to trust that he knows what he’s seeing.

 

“I think it starts in the film room. It goes into walk-throughs. You look at the walk-throughs and we’re able to be more detailed. He’s been great for our football team, just bringing that veteran presence. It’s been a good addition for us.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

I think EJ gives them a better chance to win against the Jets with this dumpster fire of an offensive line.

 

 

Interesting argument. I'll agree Orton and EJ bring completely different things to the game. And EJ has been better on turnovers and can do more with his legs. No question he avoids sacks better. Like I hope all fans feel... It's irritating at least that another future of the franchise guy is showing more signs he won't work out than will.

 

The flip side is, and wasn't sure this would be the case, but with this horrid o line, Orton doesn't get jumpy, he's not panicking back there or racing through his mental checklist from the OC, QB coach, mechanics guy, summer guy, etc.

 

I didn't believe a journeyman, with a mediocre career who was murmuring about retirement would bring in a swagger and be so unflappable with well oiled turnstiles manning both guard spots.

 

And yes, like always, it's blind not to expect that at some point, the true reason for losing his job to tebow, Grossman to name two, will show it's ugly head and remind us why it always hurts to be a bills fan. But for now, he's 2-1 and arguably playing the best football of his career.

[C.Biscuit97]

Because E.J. has regressed and he was absolutely horrible the last three games that he played. He needed to sit down for the Bills to have any chance of winning this year. We all want to see better, but without the switch, I am convinced we would be 2-5 right now instead of 4-3. It is just my opinion based on watching E.J. play this year and watching Orton play. Yes we have turned the ball over too much and taken more sacks, but I believe that it is Orton's veteran presence that enabled those two wins. I absolutely do not believe we win against either Detroit or Minnesota with E.J. at QB.

 

This. :thumbsup:

 

EJ was not horrible against Miami. Again, I don't think Orton is horrible. He is what he is. This is him. He will put up good yardage totals but not a ton of points. It's not all on him. He is a million times better than EJ at scanning the field and making reads.

 

But I wanted to see EJ grow because we don't know what he is upside is. This is what Orton is. A professional Qb that a good team doesn't want to be their starter. I don't think the Detroit and Minnesota games have justified the situation because the points haven't been there. Our 2 high points totals have been with EJ under center.

 

I hope Orton drops 30 this year and takes us to the playoffs. It will be more than justified. But we need more and passing yardage totals don't wow me.

[papazoid]

 

 

Our running game has been awful since the switch. Manuel was not a great runner yet but he was a threat that made defenses pay attention too.

 

 

 

average yards per carry per week

 

#1- 5.8

#2- 3.4

#3- 4.0

#4- 4.2

switch

#7- 6.2

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

He will only improve with the turnovers as has been shown by his career record of being above average at protecting the ball. Not having preseason is likely reason for turnovers so far... and lack of protection. The guy has had 88,94 and 96 passer ratings and a 2-1 record. The change is proving to be justified!

 

Use QBR. He's 28th. http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr Better than EJ but for a 8th year pro, that's terrible. We need to be better.

 

average yards per carry per week

 

#1- 5.8

#2- 3.4

#3- 4.0

#4- 4.2

switch

#7- 6.2

 

I'm going to use Spiller "Hater" math. Take away his 53 yard run, we ran 18 times for 65 yards. 3.6 ypc.

[papazoid]

 

 

Use QBR. He's 28th. http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr Better than EJ but for a 8th year pro, that's

 

 

 

I'm going to use Spiller "Hater" math. Take away his 53 yard run, we ran 18 times for 65 yards. 3.6 ypc.

 

with that logic, shouldn't runners get credit for yards negated by penalty ?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Use QBR. He's 28th. http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr Better than EJ but for a 8th year pro, that's terrible. We need to be better.

 

 

 

I'm going to use Spiller "Hater" math. Take away his 53 yard run, we ran 18 times for 65 yards. 3.6 ypc.

QBR has been discussed on here before, and I am not a believer.