Per Chris Brown, Hughes unlikely to be signed if has another good yr

[billybrew1]

This year they had to replace Byrd and Stevie...next year it could be Hughes and Spiller?

 

They could probably sign him for half the money of Mario, and get the same production or more.

 

You cannot keep letting guys go, and drafting their replacements every year, it has gotten them nowhere. Instead of trading Stevie and drafting his replacement, they could have drafted a pass-rusher and kept Stevie.

 

So, now...they go into next year already having to spend a draft pick on a replacement player.

 

I just cannot wrap my head around it.

 

I thought the way you did the day of the draft. I was mad we didn't get that LB from buffalo when we traded up.

Now I understand why he did it. Whaley's most important job is making a QB out of Manuel. Stevie can't fit this offense as it is. This offense is precise and a lot of it is timing. Stevie's route running clashed with this and they can't spend time with Manuel explaining Stevie runs his own routes etc. on top of that Stevie had a miserable year,truly awful and his penchant for dropping passes at keys times came up again. He was always nicked up in 2012 too.

To make a franchise QB (that isn't brady manning or luck) you do everything you can to help them get better. Should EJ make it, Whaley deserves a ton of credit. I can see that M Williams and Sammy are making EJ get better. He just can't let those two down. Whaley really did an outstanding job on that offense in two years, I think we have a chance.

And he didn't neglect the D that much in doing it. Man, if we still had Kiko that D would look so dangerous. Just think, it still looks very formidable.....that's a good D to lose an impact player.....

 

I am all in on finding ways to keep Jerry, but Whaley made the right calls building this offense imho... God bless him.

[TXBILLSFAN]

Another key to cap management is identifying your core players and paying them enough to stay while letting your non core walk and replacing them with younger pre-FA guys -- it can get real tricky, the Bills haven't faced this dilemma in past 10+ years because they never had enough talent to worry about it --- it's a problem you want to have for those reasons --

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I think people are getting ahead of themselves assuming Hughes will get some mega-deal.

 

I love his pass rush ability but this is not an every down DE and I doubt teams will be convinced of this by a contract year effort.

 

He is still undersized/small framed.

 

Pass rushers are at a premium but situational pass rushers do not get $10M contracts.

 

They get Mark Anderson-type or Seahawks DE-type contracts.

 

Anything he does will also be colored by the fact that he plays on a line with 3 monster every down DL.......and that's the way it should be.

 

I agree with all of that. Hughes to me will be in the 5 year $33M range that Cameron wake received if he has another year like last.

[JohnC]

 

 

I think people are getting ahead of themselves assuming Hughes will get some mega-deal.

 

I love his pass rush ability but this is not an every down DE and I doubt teams will be convinced of this by a contract year effort.

 

He is still undersized/small framed.

 

Pass rushers are at a premium but situational pass rushers do not get $10M contracts.

 

They get Mark Anderson-type or Seahawks DE-type contracts.

 

Anything he does will also be colored by the fact that he plays on a line with 3 monster every down DL.......and that's the way it should be.

 

That all said.......the two most important aspects of the game IMO are QB play first and pass rush second.

 

When the Bills insisted on keeping their second round pick this year in the Watkins trade I thought for sure that Kony Ealy was going to be that pick if he was there.

 

I don't pretend to know what the Bills are thinking....like many here.....but as was discussed in this thread when you run a penetrating 4-3 you will always be thirsting for pass rushers and Ealy was that rare kind of every down type pass rushing specimen.

 

I wasn't down on the Kouandjiou pick.....this draft was so good that you could pick the wrong guy and still end up with an excellent player......but pass rush is such a difference maker.

 

You can point to the Bills/Rams as teams with poor records that rushed the passer well but in context......the Bills offense was so woeful due to inexperience at key positions and a new system last year that the team probably would have had the #1 overall pick if not for the juice of that pass rush.

 

It LITERALLY won them games......especially all of the early season wins.

 

The Kouandjious pick was the right pick. He came to the game late compared to most players. It will take him some time to adjust to the speed of the game but he'll come around. Some people criticize Whaley for the trade up deal to acquire Watkins. He is going to be a gem. When you have an opportunity to acquire a "playmaker" you seize the opportunity.

 

Although understandably Watkins is the focus of Whaley's draft class the key to this draft is how Whaley's offensive linemen picks develop. Our OL was one of the worst in the league. There was a desperate need to address that problem. The wildcard in this draft is Henderson. If he can mature and exhibit more discipline in his life then this draft will be a major success. With most offensive linemen, especially those players not drafted in the first round, you don't get a significant return until the second year and later. At least with have some credible players in the pipeline.

 

The biggest loss this offseason for this franchise was the unexpected departure of Mike Pettine. He did a masterful job of putting players in position to succeed. Hughes was a major beneficiary of Pettine's masterful play calling and usage of roll players.

 

When you look back at the stagnant Levy/Jauron era and you compare it to the more modern Whaley/Marrone era there is a night and day difference in atmosphere. Back then you knew before the football was snapped that you didn't stand a chance against the competition. At least now you have the belief that you can compete. Without a doubt the product is not fully finished (it never really is) but at least it is at a stage of progress where there is a glimmer of hope.

[HOUSE]

Mario Williams needs a big year to justify his League leading high salary, If Huges has BIG year, its wouldn't surprise me if we keep him over Mario

Edited August 16, 2014 by HOUSE

[3rdand12]

What's going to happen when Schwartz leaves after the season and the Bills go back to a 3-4? Who's the OLB then?

Hopefuly we can keep a defensive coordinator for more than one season ?

Worse case as mentioned correctly Pepper Johnson is next up anyways .

I think we will be okay for little while on Defense :thumbsup:

[BuffaloFan68]

Right now it looks like our draft next year will be- LB, DT,& OL. We'll have to see how our QBs look this year before we decide if we need to look at any next year.

[Kirby Jackson]

Right now it looks like our draft next year will be- LB, DT,& OL. We'll have to see how our QBs look this year before we decide if we need to look at any next year.

Don't forget TE!! There are currently zero on the roster.

[billsfan1959]

I think people are getting ahead of themselves assuming Hughes will get some mega-deal.

 

I love his pass rush ability but this is not an every down DE and I doubt teams will be convinced of this by a contract year effort.

 

He is still undersized/small framed.

 

Pass rushers are at a premium but situational pass rushers do not get $10M contracts.

 

They get Mark Anderson-type or Seahawks DE-type contracts.

 

Anything he does will also be colored by the fact that he plays on a line with 3 monster every down DL.......and that's the way it should be.

 

That all said.......the two most important aspects of the game IMO are QB play first and pass rush second.

 

When the Bills insisted on keeping their second round pick this year in the Watkins trade I thought for sure that Kony Ealy was going to be that pick if he was there.

 

I don't pretend to know what the Bills are thinking....like many here.....but as was discussed in this thread when you run a penetrating 4-3 you will always be thirsting for pass rushers and Ealy was that rare kind of every down type pass rushing specimen.

 

I wasn't down on the Kouandjiou pick.....this draft was so good that you could pick the wrong guy and still end up with an excellent player......but pass rush is such a difference maker.

 

You can point to the Bills/Rams as teams with poor records that rushed the passer well but in context......the Bills offense was so woeful due to inexperience at key positions and a new system last year that the team probably would have had the #1 overall pick if not for the juice of that pass rush.

 

It LITERALLY won them games......especially all of the early season wins.

 

I think a strong offensive line is every bit as important as a strong defensive line. I find it interesting that you point out how woeful the offense was and how stellar the defensive line was, yet you wanted the team to spend a high draft pick on another defensive lineman rather that someone who could improve the "woeful" offense....

[jahbonas]

Most teams that win are dominant/over powering in one aspect of the game that the opposition just cant handle. They then have the rest of the team just 'hold the fort'.

By the end of this year our defensive line may be clearly identified as the dominant line in football - we do not want to throw that away.

When we have a QB on his first contract we can afford to pay the other parts of the team - if you have something very special - keep it !!

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I think a strong offensive line is every bit as important as a strong defensive line. I find it interesting that you point out how woeful the offense was and how stellar the defensive line was, yet you wanted the team to spend a high draft pick on another defensive lineman rather that someone who could improve the "woeful" offense....

If you give me a choice of the best DL in the game or the best OL I am taking the DL 100 times out of 100. While each is responsible for controlling the line of scrimmage the DL can make plays that alter the outcome of a game (see Mario vs. the Dolphins). A good OL is important but nowhere near as important as a good DL IMO. On defense the game is won and lost up front, on offense the game is won and lost by the guy under center.

[You herd it hear last]

Dear Chris Brown,

Please stop ****ing with my emotions.

 

The Bills have to re-sign him if they want me to continue my 35 year run as a fan of their franchise.

[BADOLBILZ]

The Kouandjious pick was the right pick. He came to the game late compared to most players. It will take him some time to adjust to the speed of the game but he'll come around. Some people criticize Whaley for the trade up deal to acquire Watkins. He is going to be a gem. When you have an opportunity to acquire a "playmaker" you seize the opportunity.

 

It was a once in a generation type draft but FWIW, I'd have stayed put and drafted Manziel at 9 and then taken Kony Ealy in the second and then filled the WR need with Martavis Bryant in the 3rd.

 

After the Watkins pick Ealy would have been my second and my 3rd and 4th would have been Will Sutton and Martavis Byrant respectively.

 

If Johnny Football pans out.......and I think he will....he is going to be a billion dollar football player for that organization in terms of on field impact and pinball-like production plus the revenue generating attention and creating new fans of the team etc..

 

I love Sammy Watkins. Definitely the best freshman WR I have ever seen. I think 1st round picks are over valued as a commodity and if the Bills had a franchise QB the Watkins trade-up is a no brainer. If he stays healthy he should become a HOF WR but even if he does.....QB's OWN this game.

 

And that ain't changing.....as the NFL will change whatever rules it needs to make sure the impact and subsequent value of it's QB's are not dimished.

 

But what is done is done......it's up to EJ to develop into his physical gifts now and get to a level where he can at least take a more talented roster and beat the Andrew Lucks of the NFL.

 

Loved the Richardson and Henderson picks. Richardson seems to be steadily getting better but he's been a bit of a disappointment to me at this point.

 

My draft wouldn't have included Preston Brown or Ross Cockrell and from the sound of his reviews Cockrell could end up becoming a starting NFL CB so that is very good. Maybe with is smarts and competitiveness he can become a special one too.

 

The Henderson pick was actually a gutsy call because there were A LOT of very talented, big school talents that went undrafted. Would have loved Lyerla to have been their other 7th rounder because of his ability and versatility(nothing against Frank Summers but if he is on the field for 40% of your snaps you are giving the defense a break). But you can only expect a coaching staff to juggle so many talented head cases.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

Nailed it. Of the 6 oldest players, two are DE's and 2 are DTs.

8 Moorman, Brian P 38
91 Lawson, Manny DE 30
79 Pears, Erik T 32
95 Williams, Kyle DT 31
94 Williams, Mario DE 29
90 Branch, Alan DT 29

 

I think you are missing a well-known RB on that list.

[KOKBILLS]

They could probably sign him for half the money of Mario, and get the same production or more.

 

I promise you there is not a single Offensive Lineman in the NFL that agrees with that statement...And that's not taking anything away from Hughes who has become a very good player in his own right...

[Saint Doug]

I have a wild and crazy idea. Why don't they sign him to an extension right now before he has a big year? Is that too much to ask?

 

But if him and his agent want nothing to do with that, then he really doesn't see himself here and he can go.

[You herd it hear last]

I have a wild and crazy idea. Why don't they sign him to an extension right now before he has a big year? Is that too much to ask?

 

But if him and his agent want nothing to do with that, then he really doesn't see himself here and he can go.

 

Apparently, Ralph's ghost is cheap too.

[Astrobot]

That's why I was saying that the Bills should have seriously considered taking a DE in this past year's draft.

 

We could have had Stephon Tuitt, but drafting Kouandjio did make sense.

 

I'd love for the Bills to keep Hughes, but I wouldn't be surprised if he signs for big bucks elsewhere.

Tuitt is going to be a beast, and this year.

Kujo made sense at the time but we may come to regret not taking Tuitt.

[BADOLBILZ]

I think a strong offensive line is every bit as important as a strong defensive line. I find it interesting that you point out how woeful the offense was and how stellar the defensive line was, yet you wanted the team to spend a high draft pick on another defensive lineman rather that someone who could improve the "woeful" offense....

 

It's a tough call but in retrospect I don't think there would be too many people disappointed with just the Richardson/Henderson haul at OL as it has panned out to this point.

 

The athletic difference between a guy like Ealy and Kouandjiou is significant.....and as a rule, to maximize your haul of big guys you'd better plan on getting the more athletic ones earlier in the draft.

 

Kouandjiou was picked to replace Pears right away. He was considered an every down player. Barring injury, Ealy is probably a 20% of defensive snaps type of player as a rookie on this defense.

 

So if you are drafting for need and not taking into consideration how the rest of the draft will go the pick makes more sense.

 

I don't know how Ealy has been doing, though he looked good in the game against Buffalo.

 

I just think that if you don't have an elite QB your very next NEED is to be able to neutraiize an opposing elite QB if you have a chance to be competitive.

 

For those trying to sell more first round cornerbacks to Bill and I to address the need to neutralize the passing game......it's too easy to legislate the gray area that is pass coverage so it is/was and always will be the first place that the league attacks to increase offense. This has been going regularly since the league changed the rules to address the dominance of Mel Blount. Early picks at DB continue to be a suspect investment.

 

And all of the hand wringing about stopping the run around here has been a mystery to me.

 

If anyone actually thought or still THINKS the NFL was going to revert to league-wide smashmouth just because the Seahawks won A SUPER BOWL, then they are pretty ignorant of the forces that drive and sustain the game.

 

Offense fills seats and owners pockets. More physical football fills legal dockets and discourages parents from letting their kids play.

 

So the value in Pettine's 3-4 was that you can do more with regard to "pressuring" the QB with less via creative and unpredictable play calling.

 

As touched on in this thread, I think Schwartz D will DEMAND a heavy investment in pass rushers to be effective.

 

Not a fan of the Schwartz hire at all in great part because of that, but if you are playing a 4-3 you need pass rushers and the Bills are razor thin at DE and they have pending issues with Hughes FA and Mario's cap figure.

 

IMO the health and effectiveness of the DE position is the second most important factor(to QB play) in determining whether this team wins this year so Ealy trumped replacing Pears early in the draft, IMO.

 

And I think Pears is pretty bad but there were going to better options to create competition at that spot later in the draft than there were going to be to find every down 4-3 DE with elite pass rush potential.

 

Maybe Kouandjiou and Ealy will both flame out but just discussing my opinion.

Edited August 16, 2014 by BADOLBEELZ

[Astrobot]

Right now it looks like our draft next year will be- LB, DT,& OL. We'll have to see how our QBs look this year before we decide if we need to look at any next year.

Would you rank order those in that way? Explain, and reconsider TE.

 

I think you are missing a well-known RB on that list.

Yup. Didn't get 'em all.

Moorman, B P 38
Jackson, Fred RB   33
Pears, Erik T 32
Williams, Kyle DT 31
Lawson, M DE 30
Branch, Alan DT 29
Chandler, S TE 29
Dixon, Dennis QB 29
Graham, C CB 29
Sanborn, G LS 29
Williams, Mario DE 29