Rogers Group Planning to move Team to Toronto In writing

[1B4IDie]

From the article when Tim Leiweke was hired 15 or so months ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay_in_United_States_law

 

Hearsay is the legal term for testimony in a court proceeding where the witness does not have direct knowledge of the fact asserted, but knows it only from being told by someone.

[Kelly the Dog]

http://en.wikipedia....ited_States_law

 

Hearsay is the legal term for testimony in a court proceeding where the witness does not have direct knowledge of the fact asserted, but knows it only from being told by someone.

:lol: But a bio written by an intern is a fact?

 

It is a well known stone cold true fact that Tanenbaum and Rogers have wanted to bring the NFL to Toronto for a number of years. Leiweke was hired in part to make that happen. The only reason they partnered with JBJ is for that reason. It is inarguable.

[1B4IDie]

:lol: But a bio written by an intern is a fact?

 

It is a well known stone cold true fact that Tanenbaum and Rogers have wanted to bring the NFL to Toronto for a number of years. Leiweke was hired in part to make that happen. The only reason they partnered with JBJ is for that reason. It is inarguable.

Yes.

 

Correct, based on circumstantial evidence.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Why So Serious?

[Kelly the Dog]

Yes.

 

Correct, based on circumstantial evidence.

Well I hope you chose a different profession other than lawyer.

[1B4IDie]

Well I hope you chose a different profession other than lawyer.

Well I know you won't ever learn to do anything other than dig in and defend an opinion, right or wrong.

[Kelly the Dog]

Well I know you won't ever learn to do anything other than dig in and defend an opinion, right or wrong.

You aren't really going to publicly contend that every item in a company bio that wasn't even written by the person himself is "a fact" are you?

[1B4IDie]

You aren't really going to publicly contend that every item in a company bio that wasn't even written by the person himself is "a fact" are you?

Dig In.

[Kelly the Dog]

Dig In.

I'm digging in while you're digging a hole.

 

I'm just messin' with you, dude. Why so serious?

Edited August 14, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[Rubes]

I am subscribing to Bandit's school of thought that their sole purpose at this point is to drive up the price. It makes them look like real players to the NFL next time they pursue a franchise and it makes the trust happy in that it keeps the price a little higher. As contenders, the dirt has already been shoveled on the coffin.

 

I guess the one thing I don't completely understand about this school of thought is the following:

 

The Bills may represent one of the best opportunities for a JBJ-led group to purchase a team, because (1) teams don't go on the market very often, (2) they have limited financial resources, and (3) the Bills are one of the cheapest teams in the league to buy. Yes, hanging in there and completing the process does make them look better in the eyes of the NFL for the future, but wouldn't staying in and driving up the price of one of the least expensive teams in the league only going to make it more difficult and expensive for them the next time?

 

If they are only borderline in being able to afford the cheap Bills right now, what hope would they have of buying a different team the next time -- whenever that may be -- if they now help drive up the price of the cheap seats? Does it really help them for the future more than it hurts them?

[Mr. WEO]

From CBS:

 

"One of the references to Rai was included in an announcement issued in July by Marketwired, a Toronto-based press release distribution company. Another was included in Rai’s biography published in a public filing in January announcing a special meeting to approve Primary Petroleum’s merger with Keek Inc.

Rai is listed as Keek’s vice president of business development. The announcements also to refer to Rai as someone who “assists in sports ownership affairs of Rogers Communications and was responsible for the acquisition of the Toronto Blue Jays,” which the company purchased in 2000.

Rai said he first became aware of the error when the reference was published in a release on July 8 announcing his appointment to Pinetree Capital’s board of directors. A day later, Marketwired issued an updated release removing any mention of Rai’s ties to Rogers, except that he held various managerial positions at the company."

 

So this is news...how?

 

Does the OP really believe the trust or The Widow are under any circumstance would sell to these cannucks? Wat's the point of this thread?

[1B4IDie]

I'm digging in while you're digging a hole.

 

I'm just messin' with you, dude. Why so serious?

Last word.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

I guess the one thing I don't completely understand about this school of thought is the following:

 

The Bills may represent one of the best opportunities for a JBJ-led group to purchase a team, because (1) teams don't go on the market very often, (2) they have limited financial resources, and (3) the Bills are one of the cheapest teams in the league to buy. Yes, hanging in there and completing the process does make them look better in the eyes of the NFL for the future, but wouldn't staying in and driving up the price of one of the least expensive teams in the league only going to make it more difficult and expensive for them the next time?

 

If they are only borderline in being able to afford the cheap Bills right now, what hope would they have of buying a different team the next time -- whenever that may be -- if they now help drive up the price of the cheap seats? Does it really help them for the future more than it hurts them?

Great post Rubes!! I guess that the benefits outweigh the losses. They can always restructure their group or do some different things to financially compete better next time. Perhaps bailing would have been more damaging to their future chances? In addition, they will be better prepared next time after having been through the process. They have been giving off the allusion of being in this thing for a long time and unless they were willing to commit to WNY long term they really were never competitors. Edited August 14, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[WotAGuy]

From CBS:

 

"One of the references to Rai was included in an announcement issued in July by Marketwired, a Toronto-based press release distribution company. Another was included in Rai’s biography published in a public filing in January announcing a special meeting to approve Primary Petroleum’s merger with Keek Inc.

Rai is listed as Keek’s vice president of business development. The announcements also to refer to Rai as someone who “assists in sports ownership affairs of Rogers Communications and was responsible for the acquisition of the Toronto Blue Jays,” which the company purchased in 2000.

Rai said he first became aware of the error when the reference was published in a release on July 8 announcing his appointment to Pinetree Capital’s board of directors. A day later, Marketwired issued an updated release removing any mention of Rai’s ties to Rogers, except that he held various managerial positions at the company."

 

So this is news...how?

 

Does the OP really believe the trust or The Widow are under any circumstance would sell to these cannucks? Wat's the point of this thread?

 

Ummm...maybe it was created as another opportunity for you to demonstrate your vast knowledge and to act indignant?

[bananathumb]

Wow, the paranoia in Buffalo, NY!

[PolishDave]

The Bills may represent one of the best opportunities for a JBJ-led group to purchase a team, because (1) teams don't go on the market very often, (2) they have limited financial resources, and (3) the Bills are one of the cheapest teams in the league to buy.

 

Another advantage to buying this team is that this team would be the easiest to move to Toronto. Some of the fanbase would transfer up there, especially the existing fans from Ontario. And the other NFL owners would probably welcome moving a small market team like Buffalo to a much larger market - Toronto - Ontario. In fact, the team would become the defacto - "Canada's NFL team".

 

I think the value of the team would increase very rapidly over its first ten years and would probably approach the valuations of some of the more valuable teams in the NFL. Maybe not as valuable as Dallas or The Patriots or Washington, but up towards that end of the spectrum. Those owners would make a killing.

[PromoTheRobot]

From CBS:

 

"One of the references to Rai was included in an announcement issued in July by Marketwired, a Toronto-based press release distribution company. Another was included in Rai’s biography published in a public filing in January announcing a special meeting to approve Primary Petroleum’s merger with Keek Inc.

Rai is listed as Keek’s vice president of business development. The announcements also to refer to Rai as someone who “assists in sports ownership affairs of Rogers Communications and was responsible for the acquisition of the Toronto Blue Jays,” which the company purchased in 2000.

Rai said he first became aware of the error when the reference was published in a release on July 8 announcing his appointment to Pinetree Capital’s board of directors. A day later, Marketwired issued an updated release removing any mention of Rai’s ties to Rogers, except that he held various managerial positions at the company."

 

So this is news...how?

 

Does the OP really believe the trust or The Widow are under any circumstance would sell to these cannucks? Wat's the point of this thread?

 

Jeez, WEO are you that thick? The bio was part of a securities filing by Rogers that gets vetted before with a fine tooth comb by a battery of lawyers. Blaming the secretary is weak sauce. Besides, what secretary comes up with that nugget on their own. THAT'S the story, Chucko.

[ThE BiScUiT]

Great post Rubes!! I guess that the benefits outweigh the losses. They can always restructure their group or do some different things to financially compete better next time. Perhaps bailing would have been more damaging to their future chances? In addition, they will be better prepared next time after having been through the process. They have been giving off the allusion of being in this thing for a long time and unless they were willing to commit to WNY long term they really were never competitors.

 

Kirby - I really appreciate your insights and your insider information, but one thing remains unclear to me. If the Toronto Group needs to convince the trust that they are staying here long term, what qualifies as proof, to the trust and whomever invovled that they will in fact stay in Buffalo for the long term (and what qualifies as long term for that matter). To me this would have to mean that they have an agreement with the state for a new building or an extension on the current lease for X amount of years, in HAND to prove they will not move to Toronto. Anything short of that means nothing, because if infact they were to win the bid, without a binding contract in place on a new stadium or a new lease in the current stadium, they are well within their rights to try and move the team (once they own it). I imagine the NFL could block them, though I don't know that would be in the best interest of all the other owners in the leauge, in which, Roger represents. To me, the whole thing is a bit shaddy. If they were just staying in the game to go about the process or to drive up the bid, why do so much PR work to sway public opinion? Again, you know more than I do. I respect the posters on here who have more information and I am not trying to be a troll.

 

From the sellers point of view I get why they are keeping them around - this is to drive up the bidding price. That makes sense.

 

But it still is a bit nerveracking!

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Kirby - I really appreciate your insights and your insider information, but one thing remains unclear to me. If the Toronto Group needs to convince the trust that they are staying here long term, what qualifies as proof, to the trust and whomever invovled that they will in fact stay in Buffalo for the long term (and what qualifies as long term for that matter). To me this would have to mean that they have an agreement with the state for a new building or an extension on the current lease for X amount of years, in HAND to prove they will not move to Toronto. Anything short of that means nothing, because if infact they were to win the bid, without a binding contract in place on a new stadium or a new lease in the current stadium, they are well within their rights to try and move the team (once they own it). I imagine the NFL could block them, though I don't know that would be in the best interest of all the other owners in the leauge, in which, Roger represents. To me, the whole thing is a bit shaddy. If they were just staying in the game to go about the process or to drive up the bid, why do so much PR work to sway public opinion? Again, you know more than I do. I respect the posters on here who have more information and I am not trying to be a troll.

 

From the sellers point of view I get why they are keeping them around - this is to drive up the bidding price. That makes sense.

 

But it still is a bit nerveracking!

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying. I think that they would have had to make some sort of guarantee that the state was comfortable with but I have no clue what that looks like.

 

In terms of the PR spin I think that they believed that it was important to remain until the end to help future chances. The last thing that they wanted was to look bad so they tried to say the right things. The could have been real players but it was going to be in WNY & on the trust's terms. Toronto was never an option for the Bills (LA either).

[3rdand12]

I'm digging in while you're digging a hole.

 

I'm just messin' with you, dude. Why so serious?

I was diggin it . digging always makes a hole or you ain't doin it right. ask the Dog

 

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying. I think that they would have had to make some sort of guarantee that the state was comfortable with but I have no clue what that looks like.

 

In terms of the PR spin I think that they believed that it was important to remain until the end to help future chances. The last thing that they wanted was to look bad so they tried to say the right things. The could have been real players but it was going to be in WNY & on the trust's terms. Toronto was never an option for the Bills (LA either).

I would like to frame this post from you good Sir. you have been a godsend for us peasants. well me anyways . Thank you for your diligence in clarifiying many times the heart of the matter. Edited August 15, 2014 by 3rdand12

[Kirby Jackson]

I was diggin it . digging always makes a hole or you ain't doin it right. ask the Dog

 

I would like to frame this post from you good Sir. you have been a godsend for us peasants. well me anyways . Thank you for your diligence in clarifiying many times the heart of the matter.

Thank you for the kind words. There have been a lot of people (specifically Bandit and Kelly the Dog) that have been all over it too. It's the most important issue in franchise history and I think that as a fan base we have been great. We have educated ourselves instead of panicking and handled it better than anyone in our situation would. Well done Bills fans!!

[BillnutinHouston]

 

 

I'm guessing that this reason is precisely why they asked the Toronto group to provide stronger assurances that they won't relocate the team. It allows them to keep the group in the running for the sake of competition, while still keeping the specter of relocation in the picture.

Precisely.

[Mr. WEO]

Ummm...maybe it was created as another opportunity for you to demonstrate your vast knowledge and to act indignant?

Jeez, WEO are you that thick? The bio was part of a securities filing by Rogers that gets vetted before with a fine tooth comb by a battery of lawyers. Blaming the secretary is weak sauce. Besides, what secretary comes up with that nugget on their own. THAT'S the story, Chucko.

 

OK--then read Kirby's take-he's plugged in--...same thing. The Bills were never going anywhere, so these threads add nothing new. Any of these moldy old "revelations" about the intentions of the "Toronto Group" are meaningless.

 

Unfounded and unending paranoia is not a "story".

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Life's been unusually hectic, so I am less up to speed than usual on recent developments in the sale process. But here's some food for thought (even if nobody eats it):

 

1. Unless something has recently changed, this is very much a 2 step process. The eventual winning bidder has to make a first round bid high enough to survive the first cut, and then needs to beat out a few other survivors with his final second round bid.

 

2. If the second round is conducted like the first round, then Morgan Stanley can seek amendments or increases to second round bids before a winner is chosen. But what if second round bids are a 1 shot deal - - seems unlikely because that doesn't maximize sales price for the trust - - but what if?

 

3. In that scenario, optimal strategy would be to bid just high enough to survive the first round, which would mask your true intention to bid much higher in round 2. If I was a billionaire (or a multi-millionaire leader of a group), I would sure try to make Pegula underestimate how high he might have to go to beat my final bid.

 

4. I don't know how high Golisano could go, but I wonder if he purposely waited to see what the minimum required bid would be to get to round two.

 

5. If Morgan Stanley can conduct a true auction among second round bidders by repeatedly asking them for more until only one bidder is left standing, then there isn't much point in low-balling the first round bid. But if round 2 is a 1 shot deal, I put absolutely zero faith in the idea that somebody who barely survived the round 1 cut can't be the high bidder in round 2. Assuming Pegula has the deepest pockets (not stating that as a fact, just assuming), a lot could depend on how he evaluates what the other round 1 survivors are likely to bid.

 

6. I'm wary of the round 1 survivors who let it be known that they don't think they can bid high enough to win round 2, or seem glum about their prospects. That may just be intended to mask how high they will ultimately go (again, assuming round 2 is a 1 shot bid deal rather than an ongoing auction).

[mannc]

Life's been unusually hectic, so I am less up to speed than usual on recent developments in the sale process. But here's some food for thought (even if nobody eats it):

 

1. Unless something has recently changed, this is very much a 2 step process. The eventual winning bidder has to make a first round bid high enough to survive the first cut, and then needs to beat out a few other survivors with his final second round bid.

 

2. If the second round is conducted like the first round, then Morgan Stanley can seek amendments or increases to second round bids before a winner is chosen. But what if second round bids are a 1 shot deal - - seems unlikely because that doesn't maximize sales price for the trust - - but what if?

 

3. In that scenario, optimal strategy would be to bid just high enough to survive the first round, which would mask your true intention to bid much higher in round 2. If I was a billionaire (or a multi-millionaire leader of a group), I would sure try to make Pegula underestimate how high he might have to go to beat my final bid.

 

4. I don't know how high Golisano could go, but I wonder if he purposely waited to see what the minimum required bid would be to get to round two.

 

5. If Morgan Stanley can conduct a true auction among second round bidders by repeatedly asking them for more until only one bidder is left standing, then there isn't much point in low-balling the first round bid. But if round 2 is a 1 shot deal, I put absolutely zero faith in the idea that somebody who barely survived the round 1 cut can't be the high bidder in round 2. Assuming Pegula has the deepest pockets (not stating that as a fact, just assuming), a lot could depend on how he evaluates what the other round 1 survivors are likely to bid.

 

6. I'm wary of the round 1 survivors who let it be known that they don't think they can bid high enough to win round 2, or seem glum about their prospects. That may just be intended to mask how high they will ultimately go (again, assuming round 2 is a 1 shot bid deal rather than an ongoing auction).

As usual ICSWID, you have pounded the nail squarely on the head. I don't think we know nearly as much as we think we know about how this process will unfold. It is a lot like the draft: there is almost no incentive for the participants to tell the truth.

[FluffHead]

Life's been unusually hectic, so I am less up to speed than usual on recent developments in the sale process.).

 

Oh please. You can sleep when you're dead.

[Hplarrm]

The bottom line on all of this remains that the NFL owners make more money with franchises in BOTH Buffalo and Toronto than they make having one franchise in one place or the other.

 

The NFL has both consistently expressed or even made failed moves like he WFL to add more franchises.

 

The franchise remaining in Buffalo has already captured 46,000+ season ticket holders, routinely sell another 20,000+ individual tickets to games, has millions from ads from commercials, and has already obtained and is perched to add to 100s millions from various NYS governments. If the team mves, while all of ths can be replicated and then some in the larger Toronto market, why would the NFL simply walk away from this real money.

 

We have already seen in hockey franchises in the same sport can exist here. o

In fact the Buffalo franchise not only adds value to the next owner but the entire NFL. Leaving is simply committing to 6 year of sad stories about the NFL killing Buffalo which is simply years of bad press that is not good for selling the product and also the NFL subjecting itself to years of lawsuits and endangering there govt granted exemption from antitrust.

 

THE BUFFALO BILLS WILL REMAIN AN NFL FRANCHISE!

Edited August 15, 2014 by Hplarrm

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Oh please. You can sleep when you're dead.

Ouch!

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Dirty rotten snakes!!!

 

Typical