What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[aristocrat]

49 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Soon to be down the memory hole.

 

It doesn't fit the Leftist narrative.

 

Prayers for the victims of this madman.

 

3 students killed in mass shooting at Michigan State University

 

• Three people have died and five are injured after a shooting Monday night at Michigan State University, police said. 
• All the victims were MSU students, according to officials, and the wounded students remain in critical condition.
• The suspect — identified as a 43-year-old man not affiliated with the university — died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound, police said. Authorities are still investigating a motive. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/michigan-state-university-shooting-updates-2-14-23/index.html

 

If he was a white guy you'd have days of coverage but now they found out it wasn't the story will get pulled. You don't get the classic white guy narrative cnn loves. They just move on

[B-Man]

 

 

The MSU mass shooter yesterday who killed three people and injured five others before killing himself is identified as 43-year-old convicted felon Anthony McRae. He committed the shootings, not with a rifle, but a pistol he was illegally possessing. This will disappear fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

Children have fallen way behind in learning, while experiencing unprecedented levels of anxiety, depression and suicide.  

 

We have fallout from what happened that will last for decades.

 

People have vax injuries that will be with them for the rest of their lives.. for something that was unnecessarily forced on them.  

 

Media and Tech were weaponized to propagandize the people, while medical institutions and agencies like the CDC will deal with the erosion of trust for years. 

 

What we saw was the true nature of subservient people... weak people create hard times, and it will happen again, and people like myself won't forget that there are people like you out there.  Which is why this issue is the defining political issue of my lifetime and I will never support anyone who had anything to do with using a pandemic to enhance their grip of power over the people.. and will always remember half this country was willing to let that happen.

 

 

They dont care. it was never about kids or health. about control. everything reverts back to control with the mob.

 

Then they reply back with some insult thinking that regains any of that said integrity.

 

The CDC, FDA, WHO and their Mob of authoritarians have no integrity left.

 

 

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

7 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

The MSU mass shooter yesterday who killed three people and injured five others before killing himself is identified as 43-year-old convicted felon Anthony McRae. He committed the shootings, not with a rifle, but a pistol he was illegally possessing. This will disappear fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................ We don't talk about how most "mass shootings" are carried out by POC and illegal handguns are used. 

 

It's time to ban all AR-15/AK style firearms and label the white man the biggest threat to America after what happened last night!

[BillStime]

Yes - we should have to live like this because we have so many insecure freaks in this country.

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

15 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Yes - we should have to live like this because we have so many insecure freaks in this country.

 

 

 

Michigan State is the largest school in Michigan with almost 50,000 students. 

 

It's not far fetched to think a kid who attended Sandy Hook, Parkland, Uvalde, etc. might end up at a school where this happens. 

 

BTW: College shootings are extremely rare. 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Michigan State is the largest school in Michigan with almost 50,000 students. 

 

It's not far fetched to think a kid who attended Sandy Hook, Parkland, Uvalde, etc. might end up at a school where this happens. 

 

BTW: College shootings are extremely rare. 

 

Great - but why do we have to live like this?

[B-Man]

 

 

Reminder from above:

 

He was a convicted felon. He was already completely prohibited from possessing a firearm.

 

What would you do  to have stopped this from happening ?

 

 

 

 

The Left's response:  we should disarm the law abiding citizen and make it even harder for people to defend themselves.

 

.

[Tommy Callahan]

I wish I could share this without just a link. its telling. its a list of every mass shooting with links to local reporting. The huge majority never make the national news.

 

Feel free to follow the links and see the quinky dinks. 

 

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

Just now, BillStime said:

 

Great - but why do we have to live like this?

 

Because there are evil people out there that DO exist among us? This guy, a convicted felon who's not allowed to own a firearm, manages to get one illegally and used it to carry out his hate/evil. 

 

Nice, France = truck = evil = 87 dead/484 injured 

Sagamihara, Japan = knife = evil = 19 dead/26 injured

 

You can move into a homestead in Alaska and get away from the chance of evil people people close to you? 

[Tommy Callahan]

25 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Yes - we should have to live like this because we have so many insecure freaks in this country.

 

 

Crazy. For many living in the inner cities these mass shootings are way more frequent. but no one on the national level cares.

 

They have an agenda. and I doubt will ever involve aggressively disarming the gangs that commit the majority of gun crime and mass shootings.

 

 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Crazy. For many living in the inner cities these mass shootings are way more frequent. but no one on the national level cares.

 

They have an agenda. and I doubt will ever involve aggressively disarming the gangs that commit the majority of gun crime and mass shootings.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Because there are evil people out there that DO exist among us? This guy, a convicted felon who's not allowed to own a firearm, manages to get one illegally and used it to carry out his hate/evil. 

 

Nice, France = truck = evil = 87 dead/484 injured 

Sagamihara, Japan = knife = evil = 19 dead/26 injured

 

You can move into a homestead in Alaska and get away from the chance of evil people people close to you? 

 

How many kids died before we outlawed yard darts?

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

22 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

 

How many kids died before we outlawed yard darts?

 

 

Let me know where which part of the Bill or Rights cover lawn darts. 

 

How many people die until we outlaw hammers? Cars? Tobacco? Fast food? 

[ChiGoose]

33 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Reminder from above:

 

He was a convicted felon. He was already completely prohibited from possessing a firearm.

 

What would you do  to have stopped this from happening ?

 

 

 

 

The Left's response:  we should disarm the law abiding citizen and make it even harder for people to defend themselves.

 

.

The Right’s response: let’s  do absolutely nothing because who cares about dead kids when there is money to be made?

[Tommy Callahan]

44 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

The Right’s response: let’s  do absolutely nothing because who cares about dead kids when there is money to be made?

The rights response. Aggressively use the laws on the books and at the actual group/individual committing the  gun crime.

 

Including Gun Possession charges.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Chris farley

[ArdmoreRyno]

47 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

The Right’s response: let’s  do absolutely nothing because who cares about dead kids when there is money to be made?

 

What would you like to see done that would have prevented last night? 

 

We (pro-2A people) keep asking these questions but the left's only replies? 
 

1. Universal backgrounds (which is impossible and moronic)

2. Ban semi-automatic rifles (which are only used in a FRACTION of shootings)

[LeviF]

37 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

The rights response. Aggressively use the laws on the books and at the actual group/individual committing the  gun crime.

 

Including Gun Possession charges.

 

 

 

"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"

[aristocrat]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

The Right’s response: let’s  do absolutely nothing because who cares about dead kids when there is money to be made?

One thing we need more of…it’s laws. 

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

What would you like to see done that would have prevented last night? 

 

We (pro-2A people) keep asking these questions but the left's only replies? 
 

1. Universal backgrounds (which is impossible and moronic)

2. Ban semi-automatic rifles (which are only used in a FRACTION of shootings)

 

Then you're not exactly looking very hard. People from all across the political spectrum, including the left, have proposed a myriad of ways to reduce gun deaths beyond the two you cited.

 

But if you're only looking at gun control through the lens of a mass shooting, then you're falling into the same trap that many liberals do. Mass shootings are a small fraction of the overall number of gun deaths in this country. If we're only tailoring our laws to prevent them, then we're stopping ourselves from preventing hundreds or even thousands of deaths each year.

 

A good starting point is this article, which lays out why we should look at firearm laws in a similar manner to automobile laws (not banning them but regulating them to make them safer and limit access to them).

 

Here are some of the specific policies that would reduce the number of gun deaths per year without preventing law abiding citizens from owning guns:

• Background checks: 22% of guns are obtained without one
• Protection orders & red flag laws: prevent people who are subject to domestic violence protection orders from having guns and improve red flag laws
• Ban under-21s: Prevent kids from buying guns
• Safe storage: trigger locks, storing ammo separately from guns, etc.
• Straw Purchases: Improved enforcement on straw purchases and limits to how many guns an individual can purchase in a month
• Ammunition Checks: Require background checks for people buying ammo
• End Immunity: End the immunity the firearms industry that subsidizes it and dis-incentivizes safer gun research
• Research Smart Guns: There are different technologies that could prevent a gun from being used by people other than the owner. Those should be invested in and explored
• Empower research on guns and gun violence
• Improved firearms training: audits of firearm trainings show that trainers are spending more time on encouraging gun ownership than actual gun safety (which is quite different from the firearms training I took only 20 years ago)

Most gun deaths are suicides*, followed by homicides. Only about 1% of gun deaths are mass shootings (and fewer than 2% are self-defense, despite what the "good guy with a gun" crowd believes). Focusing on one specific type of gun death risks missing the bigger picture. What we should be working towards is an environment where good people can still buy guns but it's much harder for bad actors to get them and more difficult for children or those in an acute mental crises to get their hands on a gun.

 

In exchange for mildly inconveniencing gun owners, policies like these have the potential to save thousands of lives every year. Or we could just tell ourselves that these changes won't prevent 100% of deaths, so why do anything at all? Let the kids die.

 

*By the way, people who survive suicide attempts rarely end up dying of suicide. It's an acute moment of danger in which most methods (cutting, drugs, etc) are far more like to fail than succeed with one exception: firearms. If someone going through that crises does not have access to a firearm, they will likely survive the attempt and not end up dying of suicide later.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by ChiGoose

[ArdmoreRyno]

24 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Then you're not exactly looking very hard. People from all across the political spectrum, including the left, have proposed a myriad of ways to reduce gun deaths beyond the two you cited.

 

But if you're only looking at gun control through the lens of a mass shooting, then you're falling into the same trap that many liberals do. Mass shootings are a small fraction of the overall number of gun deaths in this country. If we're only tailoring our laws to prevent them, then we're stopping ourselves from preventing hundreds or even thousands of deaths each year.

 

A good starting point is this article, which lays out why we should look at firearm laws in a similar manner to automobile laws (not banning them but regulating them to make them safer and limit access to them).

 

Here are some of the specific policies that would reduce the number of gun deaths per year without preventing law abiding citizens from owning guns:

• Background checks: 22% of guns are obtained without one
• Protection orders & red flag laws: prevent people who are subject to domestic violence protection orders from having guns and improve red flag laws
• Ban under-21s: Prevent kids from buying guns
• Safe storage: trigger locks, storing ammo separately from guns, etc.
• Straw Purchases: Improved enforcement on straw purchases and limits to how many guns an individual can purchase in a month
• Ammunition Checks: Require background checks for people buying ammo
• End Immunity: End the immunity the firearms industry that subsidizes it and dis-incentivizes safer gun research
• Research Smart Guns: There are different technologies that could prevent a gun from being used by people other than the owner. Those should be invested in and explored
• Empower research on guns and gun violence
• Improved firearms training: audits of firearm trainings show that trainers are spending more time on encouraging gun ownership than actual gun safety (which is quite different from the firearms training I took only 20 years ago)

Most gun deaths are suicides*, followed by homicides. Only about 1% of gun deaths are mass shootings (and fewer than 2% are self-defense, despite what the "good guy with a gun" crowd believes). Focusing on one specific type of gun death risks missing the bigger picture. What we should be working towards is an environment where good people can still buy guns but it's much harder for bad actors to get them and more difficult for children or those in an acute mental crises to get their hands on a gun.

 

In exchange for mildly inconveniencing gun owners, policies like these have the potential to save thousands of lives every year. Or we could just tell ourselves that these changes won't prevent 100% of deaths, so why do anything at all? Let the kids die.

 

*By the way, people who survive suicide attempts rarely end up dying of suicide. It's an acute moment of danger in which most methods (cutting, drugs, etc) are far more like to fail than succeed with one exception: firearms. If someone going through that crises does not have access to a firearm, they will likely survive the attempt and not end up dying of suicide later.

 

 

 

Background checks: 22% of guns are obtained without one 

 

So...with the 22%, how many were stolen or passed around in gang/drug communities? How exactly do you stop that from happening? You can't. Criminals aren't going to do a background check. There is a "myth" about gun-shows, very few "private sells" take place at shows. It's so overblown by the left and the media. You go to a gun show, 99% chance you're filling out a 4473 to buy a firearms. 

 

Protection orders & red flag laws: 

 

Already against federal and all state law to buy a firearm if you have a proactive order. Red flag laws are awful ideas. You're wrecking someone's constitutional rights (3-4 rights are being trashed right off the bat) and it's already been ruled as such... unconstitutional. 

 

Ban under-21s: Prevent kids from buying guns

 

I'm not a fan of this due to SEVERAL reasons. It's already illegal for someone under 21 to buy a handgun (which is the most used firearm in shootings). You can go to war at 20, but can't buy a 1911? When do people no longer become kids? They are voting by 18. Again, a constitutional right was set in stone. My youngest daughter is a sophomore at Ole Miss (20 years old). An apartment right next to hers was broken into. She freaks out due to what happened in Idaho... and she can't go buy a firearm to protect herself? A 20-year old mom being threatened by an ex, can't buy a firearm? 

 

I have no issue opening up juvenile records for buying firearms. Do more extensive backgrounds. But BANNING pre-21 year olds? No. 

 

Safe storage: trigger locks, storing ammo separately from guns, etc.

 

No reason to have ammo and a firearm stored separately. Makes no sense if it's all in a safe. That said, I have no issue making sure firearms are locked up when you're not present. It should be a law you MUST report any stolen firearm, why it's not is weird to me. I was basically single (lived alone) from like 2012-2021. Should I have to lock up my firearms when I'm sleeping alone in my house? 

 

Straw Purchases: Improved enforcement on straw purchases and limits to how many guns an individual can purchase in a month

 

Straw purchases is already illegal and zero reason to stop someone from buying whatever they like. LEO showing up at someone's house to "take a look" at their guns is unconstitutional. 

 

Ammunition Checks: Require background checks for people buying ammo

 

Pardon me for saying this, but GTFO. Not going to do anything but become a huge pain in the ass for all of us legal gun owners (which is most of America). Besides, I can roll my own ammo (which I do). How you going to prevent that? Background check every time I press a 300 Blackout round?

 

End Immunity: End the immunity the firearms industry that subsidizes it and dis-incentivizes safer gun research

 

You can sue gun manufactures. It's already happened (see Sandy Hook)

 

Research Smart Guns

 

It has been and it's flawed

 

Empower research on guns and gun violence

 

Zero issue doing research. 

 

Improved firearms training

 

I don't have an issue with this, but what does that even mean? I train all the time. I train others (my girls, my fiancé, my dad). Are you going to demand or require a gun owner to do a training class? Again, your 2A rights come into play here. 

 

 

Ultimately the issue is with gang/drug violence in intercity. This is where most of the gun violence takes place. This is where most illegal gun use takes place. Until city LEO/mayors/governors take a strong stance on crime (hello? Chicago?) things will never change. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by ArdmoreRyno

[BillStime]

2 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Let me know where which part of the Bill or Rights cover lawn darts. 

 

How many people die until we outlaw hammers? Cars? Tobacco? Fast food? 

 

 

Fourteenth Amendment

 

.... No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws .... 

[LeviF]

All those words and none of them said "throw the book at people who violate the already existing laws."

 

In a sane society, the MSU shooter would still be behind bars for his 2019 charge, instead of shooting up MSU/unaliving himself.

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

26 minutes ago, LeviF said:

All those words and none of them said "throw the book at people who violate the already existing laws."

 

In a sane society, the MSU shooter would still be behind bars for his 2019 charge, instead of shooting up MSU/unaliving himself.

Being lenient on crime has consequences? What? No way!

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Ultimately the issue is with gang/drug violence in intercity. This is where most of the gun violence takes place. This is where most illegal gun use takes place. Until city LEO/mayors/governors take a strong stance on crime (hello? Chicago?) things will never change. 

 

The city of Chicago cannot solve the violence on its own. Even partnering with the state government wouldn't be enough. Most of the guns used in crimes in Chicago are shipped in from out of state. Just one store in Indiana was responsible for over 850 guns used in crimes in Chicago in just a seven year period.

 

The city has been partnering with the FBI to combat violence in the city, but so long as someone can walk into a store in Gary, Indiana and drive down the street to hand it off to gang members in Chicago, they'll never stop gun violence in the city

 

Some people respond to all of this with "criminals are going to break the laws anyway" (which really seems like an argument for getting rid of all laws...) whereas I'd rather look at it and say "what can we do to fix this?"

 

Simply better enforcing the laws on the books will help, but clearly the laws themselves are not effective. I'd rather have a discussion on how to make them more effective at stopping things like straw purchases, especially interstate ones.

 

Also, Chicago barely cracks the top 10 US cities in homicide rates. St. Louis has a homicide rate almost 3x that of Chicago while cities like New Orleans, Kansas City, Memphis and Newark also have higher homicide rates than Chicago. Yet it seems like all anyone wants to talk about is Chicago...

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

The city of Chicago cannot solve the violence on its own. Even partnering with the state government wouldn't be enough. Most of the guns used in crimes in Chicago are shipped in from out of state. Just one store in Indiana was responsible for over 850 guns used in crimes in Chicago in just a seven year period.

 

The city has been partnering with the FBI to combat violence in the city, but so long as someone can walk into a store in Gary, Indiana and drive down the street to hand it off to gang members in Chicago, they'll never stop gun violence in the city

 

Some people respond to all of this with "criminals are going to break the laws anyway" (which really seems like an argument for getting rid of all laws...) whereas I'd rather look at it and say "what can we do to fix this?"

 

Simply better enforcing the laws on the books will help, but clearly the laws themselves are not effective. I'd rather have a discussion on how to make them more effective at stopping things like straw purchases, especially interstate ones.

 

Also, Chicago barely cracks the top 10 US cities in homicide rates. St. Louis has a homicide rate almost 3x that of Chicago while cities like New Orleans, Kansas City, Memphis and Newark also have higher homicide rates than Chicago. Yet it seems like all anyone wants to talk about is Chicago...

Criminals will always find a way to commit crimes so having more laws does nothing but hurt law abiding citizens.

[ChiGoose]

10 minutes ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Criminals will always find a way to commit crimes so having more laws does nothing but hurt law abiding citizens.

So why have any laws at all?

[B-Man]

2 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

So why have any laws at all?

 

 

Because most people are good.

 

and the law breakers can be punished.

 

Any other kindergarten questions ?

 

 

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

8 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

So why have any laws at all?

Deep thoughts with chigoose.

[BillStime]

So sad - so unnecessary 

 

 

 

[aristocrat]

the judge should be charged 

[LeviF]

11 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

the judge should be charged 

Gee I wonder why firearm felonies lead to racial inequities in imprisonment. 

[BillStime]

Nailed it 

 

 

[BillStime]

This is my store. I have no hesitation,” said one customer, Robert Archie. "You just hope that something else like that doesn’t happen again.”
 

 

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

7 hours ago, BillStime said:

Nailed it 

 

 

No what should have happened was the shooter should still be in jail for a felony charge but hey when actions have zero consequences this is what happens. Billsy the shooter would never have the opportunity to do this is we took our laws seriously. Comment?

[Tommy Callahan]

14 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

The city of Chicago cannot solve the violence on its own. Even partnering with the state government wouldn't be enough. Most of the guns used in crimes in Chicago are shipped in from out of state. Just one store in Indiana was responsible for over 850 guns used in crimes in Chicago in just a seven year period.

 

The city has been partnering with the FBI to combat violence in the city, but so long as someone can walk into a store in Gary, Indiana and drive down the street to hand it off to gang members in Chicago, they'll never stop gun violence in the city

 

Some people respond to all of this with "criminals are going to break the laws anyway" (which really seems like an argument for getting rid of all laws...) whereas I'd rather look at it and say "what can we do to fix this?"

 

Simply better enforcing the laws on the books will help, but clearly the laws themselves are not effective. I'd rather have a discussion on how to make them more effective at stopping things like straw purchases, especially interstate ones.

 

Also, Chicago barely cracks the top 10 US cities in homicide rates. St. Louis has a homicide rate almost 3x that of Chicago while cities like New Orleans, Kansas City, Memphis and Newark also have higher homicide rates than Chicago. Yet it seems like all anyone wants to talk about is Chicago...

The City of Chicago wont charge for gun possession and decides bail based on how rich the person is.

 

And then the same people kill more.

 

Old Lightfooot aint gonna fund the gang taskforce to start kicking in doors and going after those illigal guns and the gangs using them.  she gets a lot of votes from the same areas.

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, LeviF said:

Gee I wonder why firearm felonies lead to racial inequities in imprisonment. 

from the article

"Even if he were convicted by a jury of the original charge, Anthony McRae would not have been recommended for a jail or prison sentence," the office said. "The sentencing guideline score would have been the same if he had been convicted of either the original charge (Carrying a Concealed Weapon) or the offense for which he was convicted (carrying a firearm in a vehicle)."

 

the very guidelines score created by our newest supreme court justice.

 

a system to not charge poor people for gun crimes seems like a system of oppression for their victims.

 

 

[BillStime]

2 hours ago, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

No what should have happened was the shooter should still be in jail for a felony charge but hey when actions have zero consequences this is what happens. Billsy the shooter would never have the opportunity to do this is we took our laws seriously. Comment?

 

Can you tell us more about his felony charge?

 

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

 

Can you tell us more about his felony charge?

 

Well from the article above it was carrying a concealed weapon.....what is your point? Criminals should not be held accountable got it.

[B-Man]

 

 

Anthony McRae details only GET worse -> Soros-backed prosecutor DISMISSED felony gun charge

 

Siemon is part of George Soros’s vast public safety network. She has participated in international criminal justice reform junkets with other “reform-minded” prosecutors like Philadelphia’s Larry Krasner (D.), Chicago’s Kim Foxx (D.), and Los Angeles’s George Gascón. She also backed radical San Francisco prosecutor Chesa Boudin (D.) ahead of a recall campaign that eventually ousted him from office last year.

 

McRae shouldn’t have ever been free to walk to the streets, let alone able to get a handgun.

 

This is the issue with gun violence, Democrats.

 

Not the gun, but progressive prosecutors letting criminals walk so they can pat themselves on the backs for being equitable or some other happy horse crap.

 

Meanwhile, people are losing their lives.

 

Her office instead let McRae plead guilty to a lesser misdemeanor gun charge, and he served a little more than a year on probation, which ended May 2021. He initially faced up to five years in prison for the felony charge, the @detroitnews first reported

 

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2023/02/14/anthony-mcrae-details-only-get-worse-soros-backed-prosecutor-dismissed-felony-gun-charge/

 

 

[BillStime]

Just now, AlBUNDY4TDS said:

Well from the article above it was carrying a concealed weapon.....what is your point? Criminals should not be held accountable got it.

 

Oh, and which party is passing laws making concealed carry possible?

 

NYPOST: States with relaxed concealed carry laws see spike in violent crime

 

 

[AlBUNDY4TDS]

44 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Oh, and which party is passing laws making concealed carry possible?

 

NYPOST: States with relaxed concealed carry laws see spike in violent crime

 

 

Keep defending criminals.....you're a complete joke. If he was held responsible for his past crimes the msu shooting would've never happened. But keep blaming the gop. How do you ignore posters im done with this dunce.